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#26 2010-04-21 20:04:39

nXIII
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

I don't have any patience for that. I suppose that's the problem with my generation.

Nah, the problem with your generation (I'm assuming from the context that you're young) is that you don't understand the need for privacy online, and cheerfully bare your every move on Facebook for future potential employers and the FBI to find.  smile

I'm the exception to the rule - even if you knew my name, you wouldn't be able to find anything about me on Facebook: someone else with the same name has a page, not me  wink

Last edited by nXIII (2010-04-21 20:04:46)


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#27 2010-04-21 20:09:50

demosthenes
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Registered: 2008-02-19
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

I don't have any patience for that. I suppose that's the problem with my generation.

Nah, the problem with your generation (I'm assuming from the context that you're young) is that you don't understand the need for privacy online, and cheerfully bare your every move on Facebook for future potential employers and the FBI to find.  smile

I'm the exception to the rule - even if you knew my name, you wouldn't be able to find anything about me on Facebook: someone else with the same name has a page, not me  wink

I am another exception. I care a lot about internet privacy.


I've taken a long hiatus, but I still visit sometimes. Give me some time to answer any messages you post on my projects!

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#28 2010-04-21 20:16:39

cocoanut
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

I don't have any patience for that. I suppose that's the problem with my generation.

Nah, the problem with your generation (I'm assuming from the context that you're young) is that you don't understand the need for privacy online, and cheerfully bare your every move on Facebook for future potential employers and the FBI to find.  smile

Boy, is this ever the wrong place to find stuff like this! What's it today, International Make Fun of Children Day, or are you just completely biased?

Why did you even mention that? You don't come upon a stranger every day that says, "Hey, little kid! I know who you are because of the Internet! Isn't that great? Pretty soon, I'll be knocking on your door with a big sack that I'm ready to shove you in and scamper away with! Isn't that absolutely wonderful? See you in a bit, little kid!"

No. You don't. But that's sorta what you're doing, albeit on a much smaller scale.

Last edited by cocoanut (2010-04-21 20:18:06)


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#29 2010-04-21 20:19:35

soupoftomato
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Same here, I put Bob John Allen once.  tongue


I'm glad to think that the community will always be kind and helpful, the language will always be a fun and easy way to be introduced into programming, the motto will always be: Imagine, Program, Share - Nomolos

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#30 2010-04-21 20:24:27

demosthenes
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-02-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

cocoanut wrote:

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

I don't have any patience for that. I suppose that's the problem with my generation.

Nah, the problem with your generation (I'm assuming from the context that you're young) is that you don't understand the need for privacy online, and cheerfully bare your every move on Facebook for future potential employers and the FBI to find.  smile

Boy, is this ever the wrong place to find stuff like this! What's it today, International Make Fun of Children Day, or are you just completely biased?

Why did you even mention that? You don't come upon a stranger every day that says, "Hey, little kid! I know who you are because of the Internet! Isn't that great? Pretty soon, I'll be knocking on your door with a big sack that I'm ready to shove you in and scamper away with! Isn't that absolutely wonderful? See you in a bit, little kid!"

No. You don't. But that's sorta what you're doing, albeit on a much smaller scale.

Did he ever say the problem was internet predators?

No, he specifically said that the problem is when people post content without thought on the web, they allow that content to be viewed publicly which can cause serious problems if you've ever posted anything that might hurt your chances of getting a job, as prospective employers can view what you wrote/posted.


I've taken a long hiatus, but I still visit sometimes. Give me some time to answer any messages you post on my projects!

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#31 2010-04-21 20:26:23

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Okay, some more on higher order procedures:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/acronym.gif
So, to make an acronym from a phrase, first we turn the string of characters into a list of words.  Then we eliminate the unimportant words that shouldn't be part of the acronym.  Then we make a list of the first letters of the remaining words.  And finally we string the items of that list together into a single word.
Now, this wouldn't be too amazing if MAP and KEEP and COMBINE were built-in blocks of BYOB.  But they're not; they're custom blocks that I wrote.  So, when writing the MAP block, for example, I want to call the LETTER 1 OF block repeatedly, once for each word in the list.  How do I do that?  I use CALL, which is the reporter equivalent of RUN.  And that first input to MAP isn't the first letter of some particular word.  It's not a letter at all; it's a reporter, the LETTER 1 OF block itself, taken as a datum.  MAP can be used with /any/ reporter, including one you write yourself.


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#32 2010-04-21 20:28:54

cocoanut
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Registered: 2007-07-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

demosthenes wrote:

cocoanut wrote:

bharvey wrote:


Nah, the problem with your generation (I'm assuming from the context that you're young) is that you don't understand the need for privacy online, and cheerfully bare your every move on Facebook for future potential employers and the FBI to find.  smile

Boy, is this ever the wrong place to find stuff like this! What's it today, International Make Fun of Children Day, or are you just completely biased?

Why did you even mention that? You don't come upon a stranger every day that says, "Hey, little kid! I know who you are because of the Internet! Isn't that great? Pretty soon, I'll be knocking on your door with a big sack that I'm ready to shove you in and scamper away with! Isn't that absolutely wonderful? See you in a bit, little kid!"

No. You don't. But that's sorta what you're doing, albeit on a much smaller scale.

Did he ever say the problem was internet predators?

No, he specifically said that the problem is when people post content without thought on the web, they allow that content to be viewed publicly which can cause serious problems if you've ever posted anything that might hurt your chances of getting a job, as prospective employers can view what you wrote/posted.

That wasn't the point. The point was to ask why he posted such an utterly useless, irrelevant, false, generalized, and biased phrase for no particular reason.


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#33 2010-04-21 20:41:04

bharvey
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

cocoanut wrote:

What's it today, International Make Fun of Children Day, or are you just completely biased?

Sigh.  Shadow_7283 posted a "that's what's wrong with my generation," which I took (I still think correctly) as a humorous self-deprecating invocation of a cultural stereotype (but with the slight edge of assuming, pehaps with ironic (not sarcastic) intent, that /my/ generation is prone to stereotyping his or hers).  I apologize for the length and complexity of that sentence, but I am describing a complicated, multi-layered, overdetermined utterance.

So, I responded in kind, denying any fondness for the particular stereotype s/he had offered up, but acknowledging (definitely with ironic, not sarcastic, intent) my own status as a curmudgeon by offering up another one in its place.  (One I do actually believe, by the way.  I don't see how anyone can be on Facebook!  And yet clearly I'm missing something, since so many people are -- including, strangely, myself, since some former students of mine created a public figure page about me. :-)

I did not mean to offend anyone.  I bet you a nickel that shadow_7283 was not offended.  And I don't see what any of this has to do with child molestation, a crime which is terrible when it occurs, but which is almost always inside the family, with caretakers (such as the priests who've been in the news a lot) in second place.  The odds of getting abducted by a stranger met on the internet are way below the odds of being struck by lightning.

But I'm sorry to have offended you and I apologize.


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#34 2010-04-22 18:10:25

nXIII
Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-04-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Okay, some more on higher order procedures:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/acronym.gif
So, to make an acronym from a phrase, first we turn the string of characters into a list of words.  Then we eliminate the unimportant words that shouldn't be part of the acronym.  Then we make a list of the first letters of the remaining words.  And finally we string the items of that list together into a single word.
Now, this wouldn't be too amazing if MAP and KEEP and COMBINE were built-in blocks of BYOB.  But they're not; they're custom blocks that I wrote.  So, when writing the MAP block, for example, I want to call the LETTER 1 OF block repeatedly, once for each word in the list.  How do I do that?  I use CALL, which is the reporter equivalent of RUN.  And that first input to MAP isn't the first letter of some particular word.  It's not a letter at all; it's a reporter, the LETTER 1 OF block itself, taken as a datum.  MAP can be used with /any/ reporter, including one you write yourself.

I have a brief and probably already-solved question....
When saving an empty numeric reporter in Scratch, the space is filled in with a zero. I realize that this would be a problem in BYOB 3 because then the spaces you wanted filled in when calling or running a block with arguments would be filled in and the block might not function in the same way. Are empty spaces filled in in BYOB 3? Also, can you make an empty space in a numeric argument (or come to think of it, some of the dropdown list arguments, too)?


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#35 2010-04-22 18:20:04

shadow_7283
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Registered: 2007-11-07
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

I did not mean to offend anyone.  I bet you a nickel that shadow_7283 was not offended.

A nickle saved is a nickle earned. Which means you just earned a nickle.  smile
As bharvey was saying, it was just a joke about stereotypes. And it is just an opinion. Anyways, I don't have a facebook, myspace, or twitter account. And internet privacy is a very important thing to be aware of.

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#36 2010-04-22 19:34:07

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

When saving an empty numeric reporter in Scratch, the space is filled in with a zero. I realize that this would be a problem in BYOB 3 because then the spaces you wanted filled in when calling or running a block with arguments would be filled in and the block might not function in the same way. Are empty spaces filled in in BYOB 3? Also, can you make an empty space in a numeric argument (or come to think of it, some of the dropdown list arguments, too)?

Oha, very sharp reasoning, nXIII! You're absolutely right, allowing input slots (numerical ones, too) to stay empty has been one of the subtle changes we applied to Scratch to make Scratch Blocks work with implicit parameters. I'm impressed how that neccessity struck you without even having layed your hands on our software yet!


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#37 2010-04-22 20:13:37

Lucario621
Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-10-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

nXIII wrote:

When saving an empty numeric reporter in Scratch, the space is filled in with a zero. I realize that this would be a problem in BYOB 3 because then the spaces you wanted filled in when calling or running a block with arguments would be filled in and the block might not function in the same way. Are empty spaces filled in in BYOB 3? Also, can you make an empty space in a numeric argument (or come to think of it, some of the dropdown list arguments, too)?

Oha, very sharp reasoning, nXIII! You're absolutely right, allowing input slots (numerical ones, too) to stay empty has been one of the subtle changes we applied to Scratch to make Scratch Blocks work with implicit parameters. I'm impressed how that neccessity struck you without even having layed your hands on our software yet!

Me too! I never would have thought of that  tongue


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#38 2010-04-22 20:25:28

nXIII
Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-04-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

nXIII wrote:

When saving an empty numeric reporter in Scratch, the space is filled in with a zero. I realize that this would be a problem in BYOB 3 because then the spaces you wanted filled in when calling or running a block with arguments would be filled in and the block might not function in the same way. Are empty spaces filled in in BYOB 3? Also, can you make an empty space in a numeric argument (or come to think of it, some of the dropdown list arguments, too)?

Oha, very sharp reasoning, nXIII! You're absolutely right, allowing input slots (numerical ones, too) to stay empty has been one of the subtle changes we applied to Scratch to make Scratch Blocks work with implicit parameters. I'm impressed how that neccessity struck you without even having layed your hands on our software yet!

Wow, thanks! I can't wait the release of 2.99, so it just occurred to me after watching the trailer a few times.

Last edited by nXIII (2010-04-22 20:26:04)


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#39 2010-04-23 02:27:08

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

As bharvey was saying...

By the way, one of the privileges of adulthood is that I get to have an actual name, even on the Internet.  smile  I'm Brian.

Anyway, to get back to the real discussion, Shadow, I hope you didn't miss my acronym example amidst all that heat.  That was another attempt to respond to your question about first class procedures.  Did it help?  Does it raise other questions?  Should I try again?


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#40 2010-04-24 12:07:14

shadow_7283
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Registered: 2007-11-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

As bharvey was saying...

By the way, one of the privileges of adulthood is that I get to have an actual name, even on the Internet.  smile  I'm Brian.

Anyway, to get back to the real discussion, Shadow, I hope you didn't miss my acronym example amidst all that heat.  That was another attempt to respond to your question about first class procedures.  Did it help?  Does it raise other questions?  Should I try again?

I didn't miss it completely, but I didn't take a good look until now. It's starting to make more sense, though I think it would make a lot more if I could see how those blocks you created are constructed. Thanks though!

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#41 2010-04-25 04:24:55

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Okay, gang, IT'S HERE!  http://byob.berkeley.edu


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#42 2010-04-25 05:16:32

Sperry
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Registered: 2010-03-09
Posts: 500+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Okay, gang, IT'S HERE!  http://byob.berkeley.edu

IT IS GREAT!!!

It is all I have ever wanted from Scratch! Congratualtions on a fantastic piece of work.


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#43 2010-04-25 06:10:22

JSO
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Registered: 2007-06-23
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

(...) the underlying platform, which will be Flash in Scratch 2.0.

That is not certain yet... If I fight enough, it'll be Javascript and HTML xD
http://www.scratch.mit.edu/ext/youtube/?v=OOwx8FJszSo


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#44 2010-04-25 09:21:23

The-Whiz
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Registered: 2007-07-09
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hooray! As soon as I saw that link, I clicked it... That's how much I wanted BYOB 2.99!

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#45 2010-04-25 09:24:05

BWOG
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-09-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Okay, some more on higher order procedures:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/acronym.gif
So, to make an acronym from a phrase, first we turn the string of characters into a list of words.  Then we eliminate the unimportant words that shouldn't be part of the acronym.  Then we make a list of the first letters of the remaining words.  And finally we string the items of that list together into a single word.
Now, this wouldn't be too amazing if MAP and KEEP and COMBINE were built-in blocks of BYOB.  But they're not; they're custom blocks that I wrote.  So, when writing the MAP block, for example, I want to call the LETTER 1 OF block repeatedly, once for each word in the list.  How do I do that?  I use CALL, which is the reporter equivalent of RUN.  And that first input to MAP isn't the first letter of some particular word.  It's not a letter at all; it's a reporter, the LETTER 1 OF block itself, taken as a datum.  MAP can be used with /any/ reporter, including one you write yourself.

That made my head hurt...

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#46 2010-04-25 09:49:08

soupoftomato
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Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Okay, gang, IT'S HERE!  http://byob.berkeley.edu

*waits for download to end*

BTW, what's with Gobo on that page.


I'm glad to think that the community will always be kind and helpful, the language will always be a fun and easy way to be introduced into programming, the motto will always be: Imagine, Program, Share - Nomolos

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#47 2010-04-25 10:09:04

soupoftomato
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Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

That was epic!

I made an [animate costumes [] through []] block so that all you had to do to animate was draw the costumes and type in the numbers, instead of using mindless amounts of repeats and other things.


I'm glad to think that the community will always be kind and helpful, the language will always be a fun and easy way to be introduced into programming, the motto will always be: Imagine, Program, Share - Nomolos

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#48 2010-04-25 10:24:52

Lucario621
Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-10-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Okay, gang, IT'S HERE!  http://byob.berkeley.edu

YAYYYY!

Now I'll set a timer to see how long it will take before I get confused  tongue


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#49 2010-04-25 10:25:47

shadow_7283
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Registered: 2007-11-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

I think I found the first bug! It doesn't make much sense to me, but when I try to open Web Wizard v5.2 in BYOB it returns this error message:

error wrote:

Cound not read project; file may be damaged: (Message not understood: isBooleanReporter)

It works fine in Scratch.
Just so you know, the file is extremely large and it has ridiculously long scripts. I'm not sure if this is a problem for BYOB or not.

On another note,
I♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BYOB3!
The way the blocks are aranged is AWESOME! No more extremely crowded scripts or formulas!!!

Last edited by shadow_7283 (2010-04-25 10:27:22)

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#50 2010-04-25 11:46:27

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

JSO wrote:

If I fight enough, it'll be Javascript and HTML

Oh, man, if you're going to fight for a different platform, fight for Scheme! That would make BYOB development so much easier.


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