Scratch

I NEEED IT! NAOW!

There need to be a way to upload BYOB projects to a BYOB website... 

Looks cool

I Wanna Link!!!!!!!

bharvey wrote:

fanofcena wrote:

with all the cool new features BYOB Will soon become a pros language for experimentisation

Thanks to everyone for your interest in BYOB 3.

We are really hoping to /avoid/ the "pro language" situation, because we think it'll hurt the Scratch .....[removed cuz wsnt needed]

Well with that i meant a place to experiment code as i do it a lot with scratch and byob when writing a C Application or Java applet {these two pearls always are ma first choice to write a code for the first time}, scratch and byob has always been a sandbox for me both the languages are "O for awesome" and i totally understand your concern    and am happy with the implementation of first class data well i wanted to suggest u guyz to make the default sprite of BYOB an interective helping sprite that teaches the new ones what first class data means    that will be totally amazing cause that way they wont be confused if they find it in the given box 

Last edited by fanofcena (2010-04-20 10:34:16)

fanofcena wrote:

BYOB is always 1 step ahead of scratch 

scratch 1.4 - byob 2.0
scratch 2.0 - Byob 3.0

with all the cool new features BYOB Will soon become a pros language for experimentisation

If they went 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, and so on, BYOB for Scratch 2.0 would be 8.0.

Why bump it? This program sounds REALLY cool, though I'd like it if someone tried to tell what "first class procedures" are in one or two syallable words. I'm sure I would understand the concept if someone took the time to explain it.

Lucario621 wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

Why bump it? This program sounds REALLY cool, though I'd like it if someone tried to tell what "first class procedures" are in one or two syallable words. I'm sure I would understand the concept if someone took the time to explain it.

Did you see the full 20 minute project? It's in the description of the project which there is a link to in the first post....

I just saw it. Though I'd have to view it several times to make complete sense of it. I'm getting a vague idea of what it is, but I realize that I would have to try out BYOB 3 to be able to make full sense of first class procedures. I can't think of many practical uses for it that would help me in my games, but it would be cool to have a cloning feature, and a replacment for the irritating "broadcasts", as well as a feature to create a list on-the-spot. I just wish these features were implemented using simpler methods, such as the blocks Panther uses.

Also, what about other features Panther has that Scratch has been ignoring? Save and Read blocks? Advanced Mesh features? It may be an advance, but there are still some key elements missing.

shadow_7283 wrote:

Also, what about other features Panther has that Scratch has been ignoring? Save and Read blocks? Advanced Mesh features? It may be an advance, but there are still some key elements missing.

Sure.  Jens can speak for himself on this, but I don't want BYOB, as a thing-in-itself, to take over the world.  I want /BYOB's ideas/ to take over the world, by being incorporated into Scratch itself.  (Why does it matter?  Because only Scratch has the Scratch web site and the Scratch user community, and even if we had the resources and the energy to duplicate their work, I think it would hurt everyone, young and old, experienced and beginner, to split the community that way.)

But about all those features:  Mitchel has been really reluctant to make Scratch more complicated, and (I think) for good reason.  For example, there are a bazillion things you can set but not query, and people have asked for each of those individually, and if they all got put in, the palettes would be infinitely tall!  So I see BYOB's job as finding a /few/ things you can add that have a /big/ payoff by /letting people write the missing things in Scratch itself/!  I mean, Scratch has REPEAT UNTIL and more often what I want is REPEAT WHILE, and yeah I can use a NOT block but that feels really convoluted, like a double negative -- but I don't have to ask for REPEAT WHILE, because I have Make a Block, along with first-class scripts!  As a Scratch programmer, not a Smalltalk programmer, I can have any control structure I want, if Scratch does things our way. :-)

Input/output things, like the file and network examples you mention, don't just decompose into procedures.  They do require an interface to the operating system.  (But last time I was at MIT I suggested to John Maloney that instead of a zillion I/O blocks, they could just add one FFI (foreign function interface) block that would allow the Scratch programmer direct access to the underlying platform, which will be Flash in Scratch 2.0.  With that one block, they would automatically allow the advanced Scratch programmer to write blocks that would do anything Flash can do!  Then what would happen is that people fluent in both Scratch and Flash would write Scratch libraries for their favorite hardware that other people could import into their own projects.)

(And, by the way, John's response was that that would be complicated because Flash's programming model relies heavily on callback procedures.  To which I just smiled and spread my arms, because if you have /first class scripts/ then callback procedures are a piece of cake!  See what I mean?  BYOB's job is to provide one super general mechanism that all you people with specific application-related needs can use to build the tools you need.)

MathWizz wrote:

Flash! Something that I am fairly good at! That will be cool! Do you think it will ever happen?

You'll have to ask the Scratch Team that one.  One problem: It would definitely put an end to any hope of Apple approval of iPhone Scratch.

bharvey wrote:

MathWizz wrote:

Flash! Something that I am fairly good at! That will be cool! Do you think it will ever happen?

You'll have to ask the Scratch Team that one.  One problem: It would definitely put an end to any hope of Apple approval of iPhone Scratch.

I don't really care for Scratch on the iPhone/iPod touch. It would hugely decrease the speed, and as I mentioned in my other post, I don't have any patience for that. I suppose that's the problem with my generation.

shadow_7283 wrote:

Will BYOB 3 include any improvments in speed?

BYOB 2.99 will probably (there is a last-minute speed improvement coming, but since it's not here yet I don't know how much it'll help) be slow as molasses.  The reason is that Scratch lists are stored in a way that's tuned for iteration rather than recursion, which is the cleanest way to think about many problems once you can define procedures.  We should be back to at least traditional Scratch speed in the real release in August.  We have some ideas about how to make BYOB 4 a lot faster, but otoh we're hoping that there won't have to be a BYOB 4 because the Scratch Team will adopt the idea of first class data.