Scratch

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 09:38:50

Hello Advanced. smile Sorry I come around so rarely. And now that I'm coming around, I'm looking for a little help. Anyone got some time and energy they want to donate to Scratch?

The Problem

More and more schools are installing Scratch on many of their computers at once using our .msi installer. Unfortunately, many are running into problems because our .msi is in need of an update badly. For one thing, it doesn't handle 64 bit Windows 7 installs properly because it's so old. For another, it doesn't allow the user to customize the scratch.ini file before deploying Scratch across the network. Lots of schools use proxies or need to hide drives, so it's important for them to be able to customize scratch.ini prior to doing the install. (See: http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Network_Installation )

Would some / any of you be willing to donate some time to make an improved .msi installer?

Here's a quick specification:
The updated .msi should:

- Use any available open source .msi creator and make the source script available. You can test builds using the WinScratch folder available on the download page.

- Allow the user to customize the scratch.ini file before deploying. A school IT guy told us that many software packages do this by including the config file (in this case, Scratch.ini) in the folder with the installer. When the installer runs, it copies the file present in the folder to all the different installations. So it's easy to edit the file before deploying Scratch to all the machines on the network.

- It should register the Scratch file types (.sb and .sprite) and setup file associations properly, so that when you click on a Scratch project or sprite, it is automatically opened in Scratch.

- Be setup to make it possible to install "silently" . See: http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Docs/Chapter4.html#4.12

- Be compatible with as many different kinds of Windows as Scratch 1.4 is.

Want to help? Let's coordinate on this thread and see where it goes...

Last edited by Lightnin (2011-11-09 22:35:05)

what-the · 2011-11-09 10:15:26

So all that's needed is a customised scratch.ini file and 64 bit installs? The scratch.ini file could be customised with a simple c program. After the main install the program runs and allows the user to make changes to the file (command line based (No GUI) ).

You could just remake the current msi to work with 64 bit and add in the program which runs straight after install.

rookwood101 · 2011-11-09 10:42:54

I think one thing we have to consider is the best way to make config editing seamless. As there are many different ways of doing it.

MathWizz · 2011-11-09 10:43:33

I might try making this. smile What about the .sprite files for sprites?

Time to officially install Scratch on my computer. Right now I have it running in a folder in Documents. tongue

Last edited by MathWizz (2011-11-09 10:46:03)

WindowsExplorer · 2011-11-09 10:50:08

I didn't read the full post tongue But InstallJammer is a great and free installer maker.

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 14:07:53

what-the wrote:
So all that's needed is a customised scratch.ini file and 64 bit installs? The scratch.ini file could be customised with a simple c program. After the main install the program runs and allows the user to make changes to the file (command line based (No GUI) ).

You could just remake the current msi to work with 64 bit and add in the program which runs straight after install.

I think it should be even simpler. Just let them edit the scratch.ini file with whatever text editor they want_before_ they start the install. Then the install script just installs whatever scratch.ini it finds in the directory.

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 14:09:17

WindowsExplorer wrote:
I didn't read the full post But InstallJammer is a great and free installer maker.

Eh, looks like their project is dead. It'd need to make an .msi only too..

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 14:10:04

MathWizz wrote:
I might try making this. What about the .sprite files for sprites?

Time to officially install Scratch on my computer. Right now I have it running in a folder in Documents.

Y'know, I don't even know if that file association works on Windows - it doesn't on Ubuntu, which is all I really use.

LS97 · 2011-11-09 14:40:42

Lightnin wrote:
MathWizz wrote:
I might try making this. What about the .sprite files for sprites?

Time to officially install Scratch on my computer. Right now I have it running in a folder in Documents.
Y'know, I don't even know if that file association works on Windows - it doesn't on Ubuntu, which is all I really use.

Yes, .sprite works on Windows.

TRocket · 2011-11-09 14:53:07

I will look into it since this is what is stopping us from using 1.4

Offtopic
And what was the recent downtime due to?

Last edited by TRocket (2011-11-09 14:54:38)

LS97 · 2011-11-09 14:59:21

TRocket wrote:
I will look into it since this is what is stopping us from using 1.4

Offtopic
And what was the recent downtime due to?

Yeah, I noticed it too! It would be nice if you put a little explanation message each time there's a site maintenance, instead of making me get all excited for some big website change tongue
Anyway, reason for sitedown?

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 16:48:47

LS97 wrote:
TRocket wrote:
I will look into it since this is what is stopping us from using 1.4

Offtopic
And what was the recent downtime due to?
Yeah, I noticed it too! It would be nice if you put a little explanation message each time there's a site maintenance, instead of making me get all excited for some big website change
Anyway, reason for sitedown?

Good question! I actually don't know the answer. I will ask our ninja of server maintenance.

I can tell you that in almost every case "Site maintenance" means: 'For some reason it broke, and we are trying to fix it!'

So it's pretty rare that you'd get a new feature after maintenance. smile Mostly what you get is a site that works again. tongue

TRocket wrote:
I will look into it since this is what is stopping us from using 1.4

That would be awesome!

Last edited by Lightnin (2011-11-09 16:51:06)

Pecola1 · 2011-11-09 18:18:48

O.O I thought the ST were superheroes... lighnin man, cheddar girl, Padddle2See (sure maybe blinding criminals with canoe paddles isn't the easiest way to catch them, but obviously it works!)...

But now they need OUR help...
Wow...
I would be honored to help...
but...
i have no clue how to start, and it looks like others have it covered so...
Eh, if you really need me with something i could help, just I'm not the best in that area. tongue

meowmeow55 · 2011-11-09 21:11:12

I have some experience with NSIS. (See my Scratch EXE Creator in this forum or follow the link in my sig; the EXE produced by it is coded with NSIS.) I've never made an MSI installer with it though, and I'm kind of clueless as to how that works, so if I could be updated on that, I could tackle this. I also have no experience with deploying MSIs, so I'm not sure what is run when and how that works.
Getting the source for the original installer would help a lot. I could easily make the scratch.ini editable pre-install either via a custom page or just plain using Notepad (though I have a feeling the former would be preferred tongue ). I haven't messed around with the registry much, but the file associations shouldn't be too hard either (and doing a quick Google, the NSIS wiki already has a macro for doing that). So, all in all, I think I'll be able to contribute a bit at least. smile

MathWizz · 2011-11-09 22:14:55

I currently have an installer that installs the core scratch files and registers the file types .sb and .sprite. big_smile

EDIT: Wait... .msi? I have and .exe installer. hmm

Last edited by MathWizz (2011-11-09 22:16:24)

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 22:26:27

MathWizz wrote:
I currently have an installer that installs the core scratch files and registers the file types .sb and .sprite.

EDIT: Wait... .msi? I have and .exe installer.

Ah - it has to be .msi b/c that's the kind of package that Windows sysadmins can deploy across their network. So one sysadmin takes and .msi and feeds it to some windowsey thing which then installs it (silently) on all the machines in the school.

But from what I've seen, I think NSIS can make .msis... maybe it's not a big change for your installer?

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 22:30:43

meowmeow55 wrote:
I have some experience with NSIS. (See my Scratch EXE Creator in this forum or follow the link in my sig; the EXE produced by it is coded with NSIS.) I've never made an MSI installer with it though, and I'm kind of clueless as to how that works, so if I could be updated on that, I could tackle this. I also have no experience with deploying MSIs, so I'm not sure what is run when and how that works.
Getting the source for the original installer would help a lot. I could easily make the scratch.ini editable pre-install either via a custom page or just plain using Notepad (though I have a feeling the former would be preferred ). I haven't messed around with the registry much, but the file associations shouldn't be too hard either (and doing a quick Google, the NSIS wiki already has a macro for doing that). So, all in all, I think I'll be able to contribute a bit at least.

Awesome! I think they're likely to be similar to the .exe installers - might even be a simple change to your existing scripts, I dunno.

Hmm.. I can try and dig out the old source but it wasn't me that made it, and I don't think it was done with NSIS successfully. If it was, it must've been an older version.

I wouldn't try to get fancy with a custom page for editing Scratch.ini, because the installer needs to be able to run silently (meaning, with no feedback / input from the user necessary). So leaving it to the school IT guys to open and edit their Scratch.ini in notepad before deploying their .msi seems like the simplest and best policy.

It's great you have some experience with this! We could really use the help. smile

MathWizz · 2011-11-09 22:30:44

Lightnin wrote:
But from what I've seen, I think NSIS can make .msis... maybe it's not a big change for your installer?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1858 … si-package Looks like I'll have to start over. No big loss though.

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 22:32:25

MathWizz wrote:
Lightnin wrote:
But from what I've seen, I think NSIS can make .msis... maybe it's not a big change for your installer?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1858 … si-package Looks like I'll have to start over. No big loss though.

Gahh! I guess my Windows info source lied to me... Ugh, ok well, plan B... whatever that is....

Edit: So tempting to edit the posts above to sound like I always know what I'm talking about. Alas, it would not be true. ;P

I'll change the spec in the first post though..

Last edited by Lightnin (2011-11-09 22:33:44)

Lightnin · 2011-11-09 22:37:01

Hey wait a minute... perhaps we believe too readily in the power of stack overflow?

http://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/create-windows-installer-msi-packages-using-nsis/

Either way, looks like there are many options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_installation_software#Microsoft_Windows

Last edited by Lightnin (2011-11-09 22:41:00)

MathWizz · 2011-11-09 23:05:06

Lightnin wrote:
Hey wait a minute... perhaps we believe too readily in the power of stack overflow?

http://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/create-windows-installer-msi-packages-using-nsis/

Either way, looks like there are many options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_installation_software#Microsoft_Windows

I still can't figure out HOW to make it.

Looks like WiX might work.

Last edited by MathWizz (2011-11-09 23:07:10)

meowmeow55 · 2011-11-09 23:05:18

Lightnin wrote:
Hey wait a minute... perhaps we believe too readily in the power of stack overflow?

http://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/create-windows-installer-msi-packages-using-nsis/

Either way, looks like there are many options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_installation_software#Microsoft_Windows

I saw that first page on a Google search. It doesn't say how to create an MSI with it, though. hmm

Looking at that Wikipedia page, the only one that specifically says "free" and creates MSIs is WiX. It looks like something we could give a try, but it's complicated. Though it'd be interesting if you could find out how the original MSIs were made. smile

MathWizz · 2011-11-09 23:37:59

meowmeow55 wrote:
Looking at that Wikipedia page, the only one that specifically says "free" and creates MSIs is WiX. It looks like something we could give a try, but it's complicated. Though it'd be interesting if you could find out how the original MSIs were made.

Ninja'd by 12 seconds. lol

meowmeow55 · 2011-11-10 00:51:33

MathWizz wrote:
meowmeow55 wrote:
Looking at that Wikipedia page, the only one that specifically says "free" and creates MSIs is WiX. It looks like something we could give a try, but it's complicated. Though it'd be interesting if you could find out how the original MSIs were made.
Ninja'd by 12 seconds.

lol, but I mentioned WiX first tongue

Lightnin · 2011-11-10 09:39:04

meowmeow55 wrote:
Lightnin wrote:
Hey wait a minute... perhaps we believe too readily in the power of stack overflow?

http://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/create-windows-installer-msi-packages-using-nsis/

Either way, looks like there are many options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_installation_software#Microsoft_Windows
I saw that first page on a Google search. It doesn't say how to create an MSI with it, though.

Looking at that Wikipedia page, the only one that specifically says "free" and creates MSIs is WiX. It looks like something we could give a try, but it's complicated. Though it'd be interesting if you could find out how the original MSIs were made.

It looks like they were made with advanced installer maker. I made an updated .msi using the free version, but it doesn't do file associations and doesn't handle edited Scratch.ini files. You gotta pay $$$ for that.

Yeah I was thinking Wix was the way as well. Interesting that it's Microsoft's first foray into open source. Anyone want to give it a shot?

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2011-11-09 09:38:50

Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#2 2011-11-09 10:15:26

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#3 2011-11-09 10:42:54

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#4 2011-11-09 10:43:33

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#5 2011-11-09 10:50:08

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#6 2011-11-09 14:07:53

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

what-the wrote:

#7 2011-11-09 14:09:17

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

WindowsExplorer wrote:

#8 2011-11-09 14:10:04

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

MathWizz wrote:

#9 2011-11-09 14:40:42

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

Lightnin wrote:

MathWizz wrote:

#10 2011-11-09 14:53:07

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#11 2011-11-09 14:59:21

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

TRocket wrote:

#12 2011-11-09 16:48:47

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

LS97 wrote:

TRocket wrote:

TRocket wrote:

#13 2011-11-09 18:18:48

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#14 2011-11-09 21:11:12

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#15 2011-11-09 22:14:55

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#16 2011-11-09 22:26:27

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

MathWizz wrote:

#17 2011-11-09 22:30:43

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

meowmeow55 wrote:

#18 2011-11-09 22:30:44

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

Lightnin wrote:

#19 2011-11-09 22:32:25

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

MathWizz wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

#20 2011-11-09 22:37:01

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

#21 2011-11-09 23:05:06

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

Lightnin wrote:

#22 2011-11-09 23:05:18

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

Lightnin wrote:

#23 2011-11-09 23:37:59

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

meowmeow55 wrote:

#24 2011-11-10 00:51:33

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

MathWizz wrote:

meowmeow55 wrote:

#25 2011-11-10 09:39:04

Re: Scratch Team needs help making an updated / improved .msi installer.

meowmeow55 wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

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