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#1 2008-12-20 16:13:17

ChefCookie
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-07-01
Posts: 20

No Downloads

I have been going around and quite a few people seem upset about people stealing their work. I thought about this for a while and realized the root of the problem, anyone can download your projects.

I chatted a bit with a few of these people, all of them agreed with me that if there was an option like "Disable Downloading" or "Allow Downloads for Friends Only" or "Allow Downloads for me Only" Scratch would be a happier place. Or maybe just "Disable Remixing", so people can download and see how you made something, but can't call it their own.

If you can add these features to Scratch, it would be appreciated greatly by many users.


-ChefCookie


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#2 2008-12-20 16:17:47

hmnwilson
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

That kind of goes against what scratch is about. Sure it would stop people from stealing art, but some people would have it turned on all the time (and most of the point of scratch is to remix and learn from each other's code).

If you see stolen art, flag the project and contact the scratch team if they keep doing it.

Last edited by hmnwilson (2008-12-20 16:28:18)


I'm taking a break from Scratch until 2.0 comes out. Any messages sent between then and now probably won't be read - sorry.
(Oct. 20, 2011)

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#3 2008-12-20 16:48:55

Toasty
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-01
Posts: 500+

Re: No Downloads

Sometimes it would be useful if you couldn't download projects BUT all I know is from loooking at other people's projects AND I don't ave Java so the only way for me to view projects is to download them


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#4 2008-12-20 16:55:35

ChefCookie
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-07-01
Posts: 20

Re: No Downloads

hmnwilson wrote:

That kind of goes against what scratch is about. Sure it would stop people from stealing art, but some people would have it turned on all the time (and most of the point of scratch is to remix and learn from each other's code).

If you see stolen art, flag the project and contact the scratch team if they keep doing it.

Ok, but what about a "No Remixing" option, then you can learn from scripts, but you can't steal.


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#5 2008-12-20 17:27:10

hmnwilson
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

ChefCookie wrote:

hmnwilson wrote:

That kind of goes against what scratch is about. Sure it would stop people from stealing art, but some people would have it turned on all the time (and most of the point of scratch is to remix and learn from each other's code).

If you see stolen art, flag the project and contact the scratch team if they keep doing it.

Ok, but what about a "No Remixing" option, then you can learn from scripts, but you can't steal.

It's better, but there's still ways around it.
Then again, if you were lazy enough to steal art instead of make your own, you probably wouldn't want to go through the trouble of getting around it anyway.  wink


I'm taking a break from Scratch until 2.0 comes out. Any messages sent between then and now probably won't be read - sorry.
(Oct. 20, 2011)

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#6 2008-12-20 17:55:23

Zelda123
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-11-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

hmnwilson wrote:

ChefCookie wrote:

hmnwilson wrote:

That kind of goes against what scratch is about. Sure it would stop people from stealing art, but some people would have it turned on all the time (and most of the point of scratch is to remix and learn from each other's code).

If you see stolen art, flag the project and contact the scratch team if they keep doing it.

Ok, but what about a "No Remixing" option, then you can learn from scripts, but you can't steal.

It's better, but there's still ways around it.
Then again, if you were lazy enough to steal art instead of make your own, you probably wouldn't want to go through the trouble of getting around it anyway.  wink

Clicking a button twice to export something would hardly be considered "trouble."

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#7 2008-12-20 18:04:02

hmnwilson
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

Zelda123 wrote:

hmnwilson wrote:

ChefCookie wrote:

Ok, but what about a "No Remixing" option, then you can learn from scripts, but you can't steal.

It's better, but there's still ways around it.
Then again, if you were lazy enough to steal art instead of make your own, you probably wouldn't want to go through the trouble of getting around it anyway.  wink

Clicking a button twice to export something would hardly be considered "trouble."

Yeah, but if you can't make your own art it would seem like a lot more than what it actually is, even though making art is much worse than just that. And if you can't even ask for permission first, that doesn't help much.

Last edited by hmnwilson (2008-12-20 18:08:10)


I'm taking a break from Scratch until 2.0 comes out. Any messages sent between then and now probably won't be read - sorry.
(Oct. 20, 2011)

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#8 2008-12-20 20:40:14

Digimath
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-07
Posts: 100+

Re: No Downloads

I think we’ve just got to get past the idea that people are somehow stealing other people’s work when it us used without asking permission.  Every time you share a project you are giving everyone permission to re-use your work as long as they give you credit.  It’s in the terms and conditions.  Also under every Scratch project is a link called Some Rights Reserved.  It’s what you agree to when you post a project.  It basically says the same thing (that others are allowed to use your work, or "cake", as long as they give you credit.)

In the Scratch culture, remixing is allowed and encouraged. I understand that when someone has worked hard and is proud of their efforts, they want to have some say about how it might be re-used. In the commercial world this is in fact how things work. Someone makes something, copyrights it, and controls it for a long time. But Scratch turns things upside-down where remixing is okay and encouraged (as long as the original author is given credit.)

I would not blame anyone for not reading the fine print. I usually don’t read fine print. You may not have wanted to work so hard on something if you had known that you would not have control over how it was used. This is perhaps one of the drivers that causes people to leave Scratch and invest their talents in other areas.

I don’t know why the Scratch team decided to put all Scratch projects and support materials under the Creative Commons license. However, it seems to me that this is a good fit for the educational goals of Scratch. If someone has used your work in a Scratch project without giving you credit then I suggest you first add a nice comment on their project asking them to please give you credit for your work. It may have been an honest mistake and something that is easily dealt with.


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Colossal Cave 150http://scratch.mit.edu/static/projects/Digimath/3003787_sm.png

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#9 2008-12-21 11:33:17

andresmh
Scratch Team at MIT
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

When you  share your work on the Scratch website your work automatically gets shared for other people to download, copy it and remix it. The only thing they are required to do is:

a) Share the derivative work in the same way. This means that if they create a project based on someone else's work they cannot prevent others from "downloading, copying  and remixing".

b) Give attribution. This is about giving credit, which is typically done automatically  by the statement under remixes that says "Based on ____ ".

One of our core beliefs is that creativity and learning flourish when people are able to learn from and build on each other's work.

Our culture thrives by building on other people's ideas. Just think about how a lot of your projects are beautifully accompanied by some music that someone else made and a lot of the art Scratchers create is itself inspired by the work of many others artists (Anime, Manga, Disney, etc) Imagine if those artists did not let you copy their music or their drawing style? Well, in fact a lot of them don't and there has been a lot of arguments in congress about that. If you want to see one of my favorite ones by a  famous Law professor check this video: http://www.scratch.mit.edu/ext/youtube/?v=7Q25-S7jzgs

Just like some of you base your work on professional Japanese art, people learn from your work  when they  download it, they learn from your blocks  and remix it to experiment with it and create their own projects. Additionally, you typically get automatically  credited by the statement under each remix that says  "Based on ___ project".  Of course, if someone is maliciously downloading your work to claim it as theirs, such behavior is unacceptable and you report it to us.

Finally,  even if people were not able to download your projects, people can simply hit the "Print Screen" button to take a screenshot of those images they want to copy.  So preventing to download projects  would only put an unnecessary burden on legitimate downloads.

We hope you could be proud of the fact people want to copy as a form of recognition on the quality of your work.  We wish you continue sharing your work in our community and inspiring other people with your creations.


Andres Monroy-Hernandez | Scratch Team at the MIT Media Lab
on identi.ca and  twitter

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#10 2008-12-24 08:46:03

karx
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-04-28
Posts: 80

Re: No Downloads

I thik it would be an idea not because what you said but for copyright reasons. If you have loads of songs in your project is partly illegal to download it

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#11 2008-12-31 11:49:28

Digimath
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-07-07
Posts: 100+

Re: No Downloads

It's too bad that most of the music that we like to use in our projects is copyrighted. 

However, the Scratch team has recommended that we not put copyrighted songs into our Scratch projects: http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic … 071#p52071

There has been some discussion that using copyrighted music in our projects might be covered as "Fair Use".  I’m not a lawyer but it seems to me that the downside of claiming fair use is that it is risky and may require the Scratch team to administer.  (for example, projects that use copyrighted material and claiming fair use might need to be deleted after two years).    Here's a link with more information http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectua … mcguid.htm


I've updated my text adventure game.
Colossal Cave 150http://scratch.mit.edu/static/projects/Digimath/3003787_sm.png

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#12 2008-12-31 21:06:08

itsmyhammie
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 47

Re: No Downloads

Yuppers...........That's not what Scratch is about! against what it all was made for!


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#13 2009-01-01 13:05:32

jamie
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-03-28
Posts: 100+

Re: No Downloads

I would not like this one bit. It defeats the purpose of Scratch.


Check out my flash game site at http://subgaming.net/

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#14 2009-01-01 14:32:55

Lucario621
Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-10-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

andresmh wrote:

When you  share your work on the Scratch website your work automatically gets shared for other people to download, copy it and remix it. The only thing they are required to do is:

a) Share the derivative work in the same way. This means that if they create a project based on someone else's work they cannot prevent others from "downloading, copying  and remixing".

b) Give attribution. This is about giving credit, which is typically done automatically  by the statement under remixes that says "Based on ____ ".

One of our core beliefs is that creativity and learning flourish when people are able to learn from and build on each other's work.

Our culture thrives by building on other people's ideas. Just think about how a lot of your projects are beautifully accompanied by some music that someone else made and a lot of the art Scratchers create is itself inspired by the work of many others artists (Anime, Manga, Disney, etc) Imagine if those artists did not let you copy their music or their drawing style? Well, in fact a lot of them don't and there has been a lot of arguments in congress about that. If you want to see one of my favorite ones by a  famous Law professor check this video: http://www.scratch.mit.edu/ext/youtube/?v=7Q25-S7jzgs

Just like some of you base your work on professional Japanese art, people learn from your work  when they  download it, they learn from your blocks  and remix it to experiment with it and create their own projects. Additionally, you typically get automatically  credited by the statement under each remix that says  "Based on ___ project".  Of course, if someone is maliciously downloading your work to claim it as theirs, such behavior is unacceptable and you report it to us.

Finally,  even if people were not able to download your projects, people can simply hit the "Print Screen" button to take a screenshot of those images they want to copy.  So preventing to download projects  would only put an unnecessary burden on legitimate downloads.

We hope you could be proud of the fact people want to copy as a form of recognition on the quality of your work.  We wish you continue sharing your work in our community and inspiring other people with your creations.

VERY interesting and informative (and funny) video.


http://i.imgur.com/WBkM2QQ.png

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#15 2011-02-11 19:55:48

qazalice
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-01-10
Posts: 40

Re: No Downloads

I think that if the project says, this is what I made not anyone else, then it is consitered stealinng,m However, there is always something on the bottom saying that they remixed it. So its okay.


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#16 2011-02-11 20:19:18

kayybee
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-12-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

Two year necropost!

BTW, if you import the project, it won't say "based on"

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#17 2011-02-11 21:49:44

hdarken
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-26
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

ChefCookie wrote:

I have been going around and quite a few people seem upset about people stealing their work. I thought about this for a while and realized the root of the problem, anyone can download your projects.

I chatted a bit with a few of these people, all of them agreed with me that if there was an option like "Disable Downloading" or "Allow Downloads for Friends Only" or "Allow Downloads for me Only" Scratch would be a happier place. Or maybe just "Disable Remixing", so people can download and see how you made something, but can't call it their own.

If you can add these features to Scratch, it would be appreciated greatly by many users.


-ChefCookie

This has already been suggested, the Scratch team decided that on Scratch you should be able to see how the projects are made, learn from them and remix them.


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#18 2011-02-11 21:57:25

cheddargirl
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-09-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: No Downloads

kayybee wrote:

Two year necropost!

Two year necropost indeed.  tongue

Not to mention this is one suggestion mentioned in the sticky Suggestions that have been resolved already. Since this thread is old and the suggestions is not going to happen, I'll close this thread.


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Everything is better when you add a little cheddar, because when you have cheese your life is at ease  smile

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