Scratch

GLaD0S · 2011-06-16 15:56:44

In my opinion, the forum block BBCodes should be removed, for several reasons.

1. They're outdated and unnecessary.
It looks like the blocks haven't been updated since Scratch 1.2, or even an earlier version. I have not seen a single post using these blocks in the way they were intended to be used.
The "Save scripts as image" function in Scratch provides a much more elegant and accurate solution, plus it's much easier to just take an image of the scripts and upload it rather than typing all of these blocks into a post using the BBCodes.

2. New Scratchers often spam them.
There are lots of replies to (especially suggestion) threads which consist merely of a few random blocks.
Example:
[blocks]<when green flag clicked>
<move( <turn cw( )degrees> )steps>[/blocks]
I have seen many of these meaningless posts on the forums which appear to be caused by new Scratchers not knowing what these block BBCodes mean and not being aware of the "Preview" feature on the forums.

3. They can easily break the forum style.
If someone forgets to wrap the [blocks] tag around the blocks, they cause the whole text that comes after the blocks to be bold and increases the line spacing. I have no idea what the point of that is, but it can get annoying easily if people repeatedly quote each other or with long quotes, if the first post containing a block doesn't use the [blocks] tag.
Example:

guyC wrote:
guyB wrote:
guyA wrote:
hey wut does tis do?[blocks]<move( )steps>
it makes your sprite go forward
Actually, it causes your sprite to move the specified distance in the direction it is currently pointing, this includes negative distances.
Let me outline this by the following code example:
...
...

[/blocks]
The removal of these BBCodes should get rid of meaningless block-only posts (and replies to these). Also, to be honest, I don't really think they look good. Their size appears to vary a lot, their positions and offsets don't match up with each other correctly and they aren't well aligned and are often positioned in a way so that they overlap with each other or other text.

CloneCommando1 · 2011-06-16 15:59:19

I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?

GLaD0S · 2011-06-16 16:02:07

CloneCommando1 wrote:
I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?

Hmm... a good solution about that might be just hiding them from the posting page while keeping their code intact, so that that posts containing the blocks already would keep them while avoiding new spamming/style breaking posts.

Last edited by GLaD0S (2011-06-16 16:03:56)

agscratcher · 2011-06-16 16:03:51

Support.

kimmy123 · 2011-06-16 16:06:00

I don't support.

CloneCommando1 · 2011-06-16 16:08:38

GLaD0S wrote:
CloneCommando1 wrote:
I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?
Hmm... a good solution about that might be just hiding them from the posting page while keeping their code intact, so that that posts containing the blocks already would keep them while avoiding new spamming/style breaking posts.

Perhaps, but maybe it should be so that New Scratchers can't use the blocks. That way they couldn't just randomly insert them anywere in the forums.

agscratcher · 2011-06-16 16:26:39

CloneCommando1 wrote:
GLaD0S wrote:
CloneCommando1 wrote:
I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?
Hmm... a good solution about that might be just hiding them from the posting page while keeping their code intact, so that that posts containing the blocks already would keep them while avoiding new spamming/style breaking posts.
Perhaps, but maybe it should be so that New Scratchers can't use the blocks. That way they couldn't just randomly insert them anywere in the forums.

This version I also support.

kimmy123 · 2011-06-16 17:20:58

CloneCommando1 wrote:
GLaD0S wrote:
CloneCommando1 wrote:
I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?
Hmm... a good solution about that might be just hiding them from the posting page while keeping their code intact, so that that posts containing the blocks already would keep them while avoiding new spamming/style breaking posts.
Perhaps, but maybe it should be so that New Scratchers can't use the blocks. That way they couldn't just randomly insert them anywere in the forums.

What if they needed help on a script and they didn't know how to save and upload a picture of their script?

GLaD0S · 2011-06-16 18:44:16

kimmy123 wrote:
CloneCommando1 wrote:
GLaD0S wrote:

Hmm... a good solution about that might be just hiding them from the posting page while keeping their code intact, so that that posts containing the blocks already would keep them while avoiding new spamming/style breaking posts.
Perhaps, but maybe it should be so that New Scratchers can't use the blocks. That way they couldn't just randomly insert them anywere in the forums.
What if they needed help on a script and they didn't know how to save and upload a picture of their script?

I have never actulaly seen any new Scratcher using the blocks legitimately for asking help, they usually explain their problem in words and/or link to their project.

Jonathanpb · 2011-06-16 19:01:42

I've seen the blocks being used hmm And if the BBCode were removed, a lot of posts would be messed up tongue

Last edited by Jonathanpb (2011-06-16 19:02:02)

Paddle2See · 2011-06-17 05:42:26

There are a lot of good points here that I agree with. The blocks are outdated and difficult to use correctly. They also tend to attract a lot of curiosity from new users which leads directly to block spam - an annoyance so common that it has it's own term.

I have used them on occasion to explain things to people - but it's always a struggle requiring many attempts to build a script that sort of looks like a Scratch script. And the missing blocks are very vexing.

Perhaps we should just remove the colorful buttons that allow people to generate block BBC while leaving the actual BBC interpreter alone, so that old posts would still display block BBC.

scimonster · 2011-06-17 05:48:04

I don't support. I don't have image uploading privileges, so this is often the best I can do. ^^

CloneCommando1 wrote:
I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?

Well, they would probably just show the code that was put in. tongue

CloneCommando1 wrote:
GLaD0S wrote:
CloneCommando1 wrote:
I think they should be kept. Not to mention, what would be done about posts with the blocks already in them?
Hmm... a good solution about that might be just hiding them from the posting page while keeping their code intact, so that that posts containing the blocks already would keep them while avoiding new spamming/style breaking posts.
Perhaps, but maybe it should be so that New Scratchers can't use the blocks. That way they couldn't just randomly insert them anywere in the forums.

But then they also couldn't show a script they needed help with, or tell someone how to do it.

Jonathanpb wrote:
I've seen the blocks being used And if the BBCode were removed, a lot of posts would be messed up

Me too.
GLaD0S wants the images removed too. wink

Paddle2See wrote:
There are a lot of good points here that I agree with. The blocks are outdated and difficult to use correctly.

They also tend to attract a lot of curiosity from new users which leads directly to block spam - an annoyance so common that it has it's own term.

I have used them on occasion to explain things to people - but it's always a struggle requiring many attempts to build a script that sort of looks like a Scratch script. And the missing blocks are very vexing.

Perhaps we should just remove the colorful buttons that allow people to generate block BBC while leaving the actual BBC interpreter alone, so that old posts would still display block BBC.

*cough cough*
I agree with that.
Me too.
I knew 'BBC' was used! tongue Maybe. You should keep it on the help page though.

Harakou · 2011-06-17 10:50:45

Paddle2See wrote:
Perhaps we should just remove the colorful buttons that allow people to generate block BBC while leaving the actual BBC interpreter alone, so that old posts would still display block BBC.

This actually seems like the best solution to me. It keeps the old posts with blocks intact and allows more experienced users to use the blocks if need be, while also drawing attention away from the feature, preventing or at least significantly reducing block spam. Personally, I think the entire forum block system needs to be revamped, but this will do.

fullmoon · 2011-06-18 02:11:37

I fully support! I'm dreaming of a Flash-based block visualizer pulled from the Scratch 2.0 scripts pane to replace the BBCode system.

meew0 · 2011-06-18 02:32:30

fullmoon wrote:
I fully support! I'm dreaming of a Flash-based block visualizer pulled from the Scratch 2.0 scripts pane to replace the BBCode system.

+1

jslomba · 2011-06-18 09:46:51

fullmoon wrote:
I fully support! I'm dreaming of a Flash-based block visualizer pulled from the Scratch 2.0 scripts pane to replace the BBCode system.

+1

JSO · 2011-06-18 12:15:23

Hi everyone!

The current forum blocks are indeed highly outdated and annoying, I think everyone agrees on that.

I have a replacement for those old blocks ready, hopefully I'll find some time to add it to the forums soon. It will render easier code (see below) into an almost exact lookalike of the real Scratch script.

For the technical Scratchers out there:
It will be a Javascript Plugin, that will hopefully be used on these forums and on the Scratch Wiki. It renders 'code' like below into pure HTML+CSS. So people won't need flash or any other 3rd-party plugin to read the forums. The JS 'plugin' will be available for everyone to use on their websites/blogs/...

Code:

when green flag clicked
forever
  if <(today)=[friday]>
    say [Rebecca Black!]
  end
  think [oh no...] for (3) secs
  move (10) steps
  turn ccw (90) degrees
  play sound [yay! v] until done
end

fullmoon · 2011-06-18 12:23:41

JSO, you never cease to amaze me...

scimonster · 2011-06-18 14:17:15

How will you do it in the wiki, JSO?
Just so you know, you PWN!!

Envision · 2011-06-18 14:20:22

scimonster wrote:
How will you do it in the wiki, JSO?
Just so you know, you PWN!!

I believe he could add it to the scratch.js file.

kimmy123 · 2011-06-18 14:21:39

JSO wrote:
Hi everyone!

The current forum blocks are indeed highly outdated and annoying, I think everyone agrees on that.

I have a replacement for those old blocks ready, hopefully I'll find some time to add it to the forums soon. It will render easier code (see below) into an almost exact lookalike of the real Scratch script.

For the technical Scratchers out there:
It will be a Javascript Plugin, that will hopefully be used on these forums and on the Scratch Wiki. It renders 'code' like below into pure HTML+CSS. So people won't need flash or any other 3rd-party plugin to read the forums. The JS 'plugin' will be available for everyone to use on their websites/blogs/...
Code:
when green flag clicked
forever
  if <(today)=[friday]>
    say [Rebecca Black!]
  end
  think [oh no...] for (3) secs
  move (10) steps
  turn ccw (90) degrees
  play sound [yay! v] until done
end

I don't want it to change tongue

Last edited by kimmy123 (2011-06-18 14:21:54)

Paddle2See · 2011-06-18 16:20:58

JSO wrote:
Hi everyone!

The current forum blocks are indeed highly outdated and annoying, I think everyone agrees on that.

I have a replacement for those old blocks ready, hopefully I'll find some time to add it to the forums soon. It will render easier code (see below) into an almost exact lookalike of the real Scratch script.

For the technical Scratchers out there:
It will be a Javascript Plugin, that will hopefully be used on these forums and on the Scratch Wiki. It renders 'code' like below into pure HTML+CSS. So people won't need flash or any other 3rd-party plugin to read the forums. The JS 'plugin' will be available for everyone to use on their websites/blogs/...
Code:
when green flag clicked
forever
  if <(today)=[friday]>
    say [Rebecca Black!]
  end
  think [oh no...] for (3) secs
  move (10) steps
  turn ccw (90) degrees
  play sound [yay! v] until done
end

JSO, this sounds amazing! I'm looking forward to it.

I think it still means that we need to remove the old buttons...and we might want to leave the old tags in place so that old posts still work?

JSO · 2011-06-19 08:37:38

Those who want, can start to play with the new block drawer thing here:
http://joren.tk/blocks/pluginlab.htm

Help on the syntax: Basically, you write down Scratch blocks just like they look in the Scratch program.

Every block goes on a new line,
[enter text here] is a text input
(variable one) is a variable
(123.4) is a number
[pop sound v] is a dropdown box (not rendered properly yet)
<mouse down?> is a boolean block. (also acting up, ?'s don't seem to work)

Blocks are colored correctly when it detects them, otherwise they are given the obsolete-red color smile

If something goes wrong, please let me know (screenshots help ^^).

I was planning to leave the old [blocks] tags alone so old posts still render properly, and removing the buttons (like Paddle2See suggested). The new scratch blocks would go in new tags, maybe [script], or is that confusing?

Help for the syntax of the new Block drawer would be added to the Help page.

Last edited by JSO (2011-06-19 08:46:03)

scimonster · 2011-06-19 12:36:07

I think a [script[u][u]] tag would be good. smile

It's:
░█▀█░░█░░░░░█░█▀▀░█▀▀░▄▀▀▄░░░█░█░░░█▀▀
█▄▄▄█░░█░█░█░░█▀▀░▀▀█░█░░█░░█░█░█░░█▀▀
█░░░█░░░█░█░░░█▄▄░▄▄█░▀▄▄▀░█░░░░░█░█▄▄
that you made that, and even more in HTML! big_smile
(That's "awesome" ASCII ₩ŐⱤÐǝÐ © BTW)

"add (item [any v] of [foods I like v] to [mouth v]" didn't work; it only showed the "add" as a variable. hmm

Reporters work.

"<<> and <>>" showed as a green reporter with red oval things inside.

Anyways:

█▄░▄█░▄▀▀▄░█░░█░░█▀█░█░░░░░█░░█░░█░░█░░█░░█░░█░█░█
░▀█▀░░█░░█░█░░█░░█▀▀░░█░█░█░░█░█░█░█░█░█░█░█░█░█░█
░░█░░░▀▄▄▀░▀▄▄▀░░█░░░░░█░█░░░█░░██░█░░██░█░░██░▄░▄

Last edited by scimonster (2011-06-19 12:37:21)

LS97 · 2011-06-20 05:37:34

The booleans don't work at all. Some render as reporters and some cause errors in the HTML, sending stuff everywhere (the latter being those with the ? in).

Last edited by LS97 (2011-06-20 05:39:39)

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2011-06-16 15:56:44

Remove the BBCodes for blocks

guyC wrote:

guyB wrote:

guyA wrote:

#2 2011-06-16 15:59:19

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#3 2011-06-16 16:02:07

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

CloneCommando1 wrote:

#4 2011-06-16 16:03:51

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#5 2011-06-16 16:06:00

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#6 2011-06-16 16:08:38

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

GLaD0S wrote:

CloneCommando1 wrote:

#7 2011-06-16 16:26:39

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

CloneCommando1 wrote:

GLaD0S wrote:

CloneCommando1 wrote:

#8 2011-06-16 17:20:58

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

CloneCommando1 wrote:

GLaD0S wrote:

CloneCommando1 wrote:

#9 2011-06-16 18:44:16

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

kimmy123 wrote:

CloneCommando1 wrote:

GLaD0S wrote:

#10 2011-06-16 19:01:42

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#11 2011-06-17 05:42:26

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#12 2011-06-17 05:48:04

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

CloneCommando1 wrote:

CloneCommando1 wrote:

GLaD0S wrote:

CloneCommando1 wrote:

Jonathanpb wrote:

Paddle2See wrote:

#13 2011-06-17 10:50:45

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

Paddle2See wrote:

#14 2011-06-18 02:11:37

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#15 2011-06-18 02:32:30

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

fullmoon wrote:

#16 2011-06-18 09:46:51

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

fullmoon wrote:

#17 2011-06-18 12:15:23

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

Code:

#18 2011-06-18 12:23:41

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#19 2011-06-18 14:17:15

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#20 2011-06-18 14:20:22

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

scimonster wrote:

#21 2011-06-18 14:21:39

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

JSO wrote:

Code:

#22 2011-06-18 16:20:58

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

JSO wrote:

Code:

#23 2011-06-19 08:37:38

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks

#24 2011-06-19 12:36:07

Re: Remove the BBCodes for blocks