Scratch

Billybob-Mario wrote:

That isn't physically possible anymore. Good projects can only be made using good mods.

Now, this I totally disagree with!  Although scratch is not the peak programming language, you can still create very good projects with it!  I know that some people are making Minecraft 2D in scratch, and are doing really well at the moment.  Yes, scratch doesn't support some good features, it still has a lot of quality's that make a programming language     While you might not be able to make super advanced projects, like in Panther or BYOB  this doesn't necessarily mean that you can not make good projects in Scratch.    This statement makes me quite disappointed as scratch is for a variety of ages, and the extents of which you can make projects are astronomical.  Please, consider this before  making that assumption 

andresmh wrote:

In your opinion, what makes a good Scratch project?  It might help to point at examples of projects (preferably not yours) and explain what is good about that particular project. Of course, there is no one single answer, so I'm interested in learning what your diverse range of answers will be. Thanks!

Now Andresmh, what does make a good Scratch project?  Is it the graphics, the massive amount of useless scripts, the least amount of scripts and sprites possible?  Now, none of these make up a good Scratch project!  For you might have great graphics, and absolutely terrible scripting    !  But, as Scratch is for all ages, I can't exactly judge what a good project is! However, I can easily say that the best scratch projects i have seen have mostly been made by 08Jackt, Rhy((can't remember numbers)) & goalkeepery.  While no scrach project is perfect whether it be because of speed, bad grpahics or bad scripting, these are the closest i can come to a GOOD.

- SSSS
Scratch on!
Wow, that is a big post!

Last edited by ssss (2011-03-18 07:13:58)

scimonster wrote:

An OS with good programming.

Lol - that made my post seem unnecessarily long 

If a good project wasn't hard to define, I doubt Andrés would be asking it here.

I can say that I enjoy games which have:

- a decent amount of levels. Not too long because it gets boring, but at least five intriguing ones. Navigating to the page to play a single level is just not worth it.

- appropriate graphics. By this I mean graphics which have effort put into them, but not superglossyfancy3D animations. It slows down the project and is just "a punch in the eye".

- an original gameplay. I would like to stress on this point because even if the graphics are poor and there are only a couple of levels, an original idea always attracts you. I am tired of all the existing flash game imitations (although I do say it's the best way to learn), because I have played them already and probably better (because of speed). Being original also means, however, improving on a previous game and adding (preferably not levels) a new feature (such as collecting stars or something). That, IMO, is what remixing should be!

- A good story behind it. It gives the user more context and more "reason to be playing this game".

- Humor. The most difficult thing to achieve which really makes a game perfect is getting everyone to laugh at some point through the game -- not just a specific stream of people.

That above was for games, but most points can be applied to other contexts. For animations, a good project simply needs to have good art.

For programs and utilities, it has to be easy to use and catchy.

Now let's hit Submit and see if I beat ssss... 

I just got done with a project that took 700 hours to make, and is an animation that's at movie length of an hour and thirty minutes, but an advanced high quality project like that cannot be posted on the site due to the fact that it's over 10 MB.

It tells a complete and full story, but also features full length battle scenes.

When it comes to scratch, I can push the program to beyond it's own limitations, but that also means that I won't be able to share it.

I think that 'good' projects are extremely hard for me to make due to this limitation. I want to make 200 MB projects, but that's just not happening with the current version of scratch.

LS97 wrote:

If a good project wasn't hard to define, I doubt Andrés would be asking it here.

I can say that I enjoy games which have:

- a decent amount of levels. Not too long because it gets boring, but at least five intriguing ones. Navigating to the page to play a single level is just not worth it.

- appropriate graphics. By this I mean graphics which have effort put into them, but not superglossyfancy3D animations. It slows down the project and is just "a punch in the eye".

- an original gameplay. I would like to stress on this point because even if the graphics are poor and there are only a couple of levels, an original idea always attracts you. I am tired of all the existing flash game imitations (although I do say it's the best way to learn), because I have played them already and probably better (because of speed). Being original also means, however, improving on a previous game and adding (preferably not levels) a new feature (such as collecting stars or something). That, IMO, is what remixing should be!

- A good story behind it. It gives the user more context and more "reason to be playing this game".

- Humor. The most difficult thing to achieve which really makes a game perfect is getting everyone to laugh at some point through the game -- not just a specific stream of people.

That above was for games, but most points can be applied to other contexts. For animations, a good project simply needs to have good art.

For programs and utilities, it has to be easy to use and catchy.

Now let's hit Submit and see if I beat ssss... 

Unfortunately man, mine was still longer    !  I actually do agree with you that all the flash imitations to seem to limit how much fun I have playing games!  While they are good to start learning to use scratch, when the games have no add-ons such as a story-line, an extra feature (Maybe collecting stars, or quests    ) and probably some new characters I get a little bit bored...  I also agree that getting humour in games is hard, however it is not necessary but it does seem to help with getting people to like the game better.  Sure, good graphics are normally associated with good scratch projects, but I am bad at making graphics, so does that mean that I will never make a good scratch game?   I am thinking that original graphics might be necessary rather than using the sprites provided, yet they are good when you are starting to use scratch     Now onto amount of levels... Sure, if there are to many levels and you die, you might find it frustrating that you can't get back to that level  (or when you have to shut down the computer for some reason (anti-virus scan?).  People can add a "save" system so when you get to a level, there's  a code that you have to remember (such as { abc } !  These games that are long seem to me to be the ones that have the most effort put into the user emotions (angry that they have to play all over again, happy they can "save" it, amazed at the effort put into the game).  That's about all I can think of for now  '

~ Now to post it

shadow_7283 wrote:

Here is my opinion. These rules for a good  more general than some ideas you might get on this topic, but I believe them to be true none-the-less.

1. First and foremost, your project's contents must be focused and concise. I can't really enjoy a project that's all over the place. This could be anything like having multiple competing genres in a single project, multiple main ideas and irrelevant plots, or even two unrelated projects merged into one. There are very few projects that I see that have this issue, however.
Try out 08jackt's SynOS ... You get many "apps" which have multiple genres... You don't see people complainin about that do you?  Which means, sometimes it's ok!

2. It must have some level of user interaction. You may say, "Well animations don't have user interaction but I enjoy them!". I disagree. The entertaining element of those projects invite user input. That's why there are jokes and parodies and what-not. They are intended to cause a certain reaction in a user, which I consider user interaction.  This isn't the only type of user interaction though. Games test a player's skills in creative ways. When you think about it, almost every project on Scratch has user interaction. Without it, genuinely enjoying a project is almost impossible.

3. Some form of progress needs to be present. In a successful Scratch project one thing must lead to another. Again, this is something simple but necessary to achieve good results.
Yes, in this I totally agree with you!  No point in playing a game where you don't do anything really, and I call this "A sequence of events"!  Not only does it help you organise it {See 1}

4. Originality is key to a good project. Something that I've seen countless times before is less likely to draw my attention than something new. This also means using less of the sprites included with Scratch. Original graphics do wonders for a project.
Yes.
5.Without organization, I can't even wrap my mind around a project least of all enjoy it. Organization is found in projects anywhere from ordering clips in chronological order, to having a well labeled and placed scoring system. This also means labeling your variable displays, placing them somewhere where they make sense, and ensuring they do not interfere with a project.
Isn't this the same as your first post, where you say that the project must be focused and concise?
So there you have it. Five essential things that any project should have to be successful. 

shadow_7283 wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

Here is my opinion. These rules for a good  more general than some ideas you might get on this topic, but I believe them to be true none-the-less.

1. First and foremost, your project's contents must be focused and concise. I can't really enjoy a project that's all over the place. This could be anything like having multiple competing genres in a single project, multiple main ideas and irrelevant plots, or even two unrelated projects merged into one. There are very few projects that I see that have this issue, however.
Try out 08jackt's SynOS ... You get many "apps" which have multiple genres... You don't see people complainin about that do you?  Which means, sometimes it's ok!
Notice I put "competing" genres though. That means all of the genres are attempting to outshine another in a single project. I would consider an OS with multiple apps a mixture of projects. In an OS that is as refined as O8jackt's, you'll find that the operating system is focused and the apps do not interfere with the enjoyment of another. So that is what I meant by that.

2. It must have some level of user interaction. You may say, "Well animations don't have user interaction but I enjoy them!". I disagree. The entertaining element of those projects invite user input. That's why there are jokes and parodies and what-not. They are intended to cause a certain reaction in a user, which I consider user interaction.  This isn't the only type of user interaction though. Games test a player's skills in creative ways. When you think about it, almost every project on Scratch has user interaction. Without it, genuinely enjoying a project is almost impossible.

3. Some form of progress needs to be present. In a successful Scratch project one thing must lead to another. Again, this is something simple but necessary to achieve good results.
Yes, in this I totally agree with you!  No point in playing a game where you don't do anything really, and I call this "A sequence of events"!  Not only does it help you organise it {See 1}
Good point.   

4. Originality is key to a good project. Something that I've seen countless times before is less likely to draw my attention than something new. This also means using less of the sprites included with Scratch. Original graphics do wonders for a project.
Yes.

5.Without organization, I can't even wrap my mind around a project least of all enjoy it. Organization is found in projects anywhere from ordering clips in chronological order, to having a well labeled and placed scoring system. This also means labeling your variable displays, placing them somewhere where they make sense, and ensuring they do not interfere with a project.
Isn't this the same as your first post, where you say that the project must be focused and concise?
No, not really. By focused I mean the projects ideas are focused and cohesive. When I say organized I'm referring to the actual interface of a project.But couldn't you group them as the same category?  If you didn't have focused and cohesive ideas, you couldn't have a good interface 

So there you have it. Five essential things that any project should have to be successful. 

To me, there are several genres of Scratch projects:
1. Animations/Story
2. Game
3. Interactive
4. Pen toys
5. Tools
6. How-to's/Tutorials
7. OS
8. Spam

Animations

Animations are great if they have a story to it, and have great graphics.
Animations are still animations if they have a little interaction with the user (like asking the user if ______ should ______ or not).

Game

Games are great if they work well, is original, has a plot of some sort, and has good graphice.

Interactive

This is a broad genre and can't be defined easily.

Pen toys

These projects use the pen to draw designs of some sort. They are great if it's pwetty    and fast.

Tools

Tools are projects which can help the user with something, such as finding the average of a set of numbers. They are great if they work and are easy to use.

How-to's/Tutorials

Usually, these projects show the user how to do something in Scratch. They are great if the tutorial works and, as a bonus, show whatever the tutorial is teaching in action.

OS

I could go on and on..................... can I get back to you on this?

Spam

The quicker its removed, the better! 

Well, you cannot say good project, because there are too many types I would say:


A. Movie.

Good...
1. Humor
2. Graphics
3. Animation
4. background music and sound effects.
No..
1. Bad words, (even if it is just, Oh my g*d! some like me may be offended.)
2. Gore, no one likes messy blood.
3. Creepy paintings, such as red lines on eyes.
4. Gross pictures/words. Some word you shouldn't use, don't be rude. (Such as p**p or pictures of it. I don't get why people like that stuff.    )

Use little...
1. Cheesy jokes. Sometimes can be funny but only if a character is good at them, or bad, or whatever.
2. Religion or beliefs, I myself am religious (a Christian) but I don't really think I enjoy evolution on projects, so I wonder how people may be offended with some of my projects. 
3. Variables and lists, sometimes I see people will use as many as they can to make it look more complicated. Use as little as possible.
4. Speech bubbles, it is better with a mic, but its fine without.


MeMes, Memis or whatever you call the plural form of MeMe.

Good...
1. Questions (way to be obvious) like 'What are your initials' or 'If you had a child what would you name it?' , ones you have to think about.
2. Backgrounds, It gets boring looking at the same screen for 15 mins. Try to be creative.
3. Something that moves on the screen, like the background having color effect or a Scratch cat that asks the question the mouse is over. Even a small animation running on the bottom of the screen.

No...
1. Confusing words, make it as simple as possible.
2. Random questions like, 'Do you like pie?' or 'Does Elmo know where you live?', trust me, viewers will be annoyed.
3. Personal questions, like, 'When were you potty trained?', it gets really embarrassing and there will be a wild fire in the project comments. 

Use little...
1. Long questions, no one likes to go out of their way to do something, that will take their whole day.
2. Scratch questions, like, 'Who is your best Scratch friend?'. No one likes them, they like different ones.


Scratched Games

Good...
1. Graphics
2. Original things, from the original game.
3. Scratch sprites, otherwise it won't seem very 'Scratched', though it is good to use ripped sprites too.

No...
1. Remixing, the original scratched will get more views.
2. Using gore or nasty scenes, even if the original Black Ops. has them, you should make it child safe,  .
3. Home ripped sprites, only use them if they look real, if they have white pixels around them it won't look as good.

Use little...
1. Original names, if they are the ripped sprite, use the original name, but if it is a Scratch sprite, make a name similar, it can be hard but people will remember it.
2. Speech bubbles, it is better with a mic, but its fine without.


Original Games

Good...
1. Graphics
2. Sprites
3. Scripts
4. Animations.
5. Velocracy
6. X/Y Scrolling
7. background music and sound effects.
8. Game (duh)

No...
1. Gore or creepy pictures
2. Gross pictures/words
3. Remixes
4. Speech bubbles.

Use little...
1. Stolen or ripped sprites
2. Variable/Lists
3. Scripts
4. Sprites

Last edited by Pecola1 (2011-03-18 21:12:14)

adriangl wrote:

Well, it really depends on the type of project. I definitely think that somethings apply to all types of projects, such as working hard on it. If a project only took 5 minutes to make, it probably won't be original or interesting. Here's what I think of for specific projects:

Games
Sound Effects or Background Music
Normal or Higher Quality Sprites and Backgrounds
Some Type of Story or Objective
Challenge Throughout the Game
Clean Scripts that Serve Their Function
Components Found in Real Games

Animations
Sound Effects or Background Music
High Quality Sprites and Backgrounds
A High Quality Animation
Useful Scripts
A Story or Plot to the Animation

This in general makes a good project. If a project has all of these components, then it makes it enjoyable by the audience it aims for.

I knew I had forgotten something! background music and sound effects.!

ssss wrote:

Now Andresmh, what does make a good Scratch project?  Is it the graphics, the massive amount of useless scripts, the least amount of scripts and sprites possible?  Now, none of these make up a good Scratch project!  For you might have great graphics, and absolutely terrible scripting    !  But, as Scratch is for all ages, I can't exactly judge what a good project is! However, I can easily say that the best scratch projects i have seen have mostly been made by 08Jackt, Rhy((can't remember numbers)) & goalkeepery.  While no scrach project is perfect whether it be because of speed, bad grpahics or bad scripting, these are the closest i can come to a GOOD.

What is it exactly that you like about projects made by those users? Could you point at some specific examples and explain what you liked about them? Thanks a lot for the feedback!

CastlePokemetroid wrote:

I just got done with a project that took 700 hours to make, and is an animation that's at movie length of an hour and thirty minutes, but an advanced high quality project like that cannot be posted on the site due to the fact that it's over 10 MB.

It tells a complete and full story, but also features full length battle scenes.

When it comes to scratch, I can push the program to beyond it's own limitations, but that also means that I won't be able to share it.

I think that 'good' projects are extremely hard for me to make due to this limitation. I want to make 200 MB projects, but that's just not happening with the current version of scratch.

Interesting perspective. Could you put your big project on rapidshare.com or 4shared.com to check it out?

One side note: often the size of the file is too big because of the music. One way to to make it smaller is by cutting the music to a smaller chunk and loop it.