Scratch

It's really nice to have 1.3 finally here! I have a little question though, will it work on Windows 2000? I know the beta did so I don't know why it would be different now, you just didn't mention Windows 2000 on the topic post. I have a Vista computer too, but I'll be on it less.

jcubed wrote:

1 other problem, all though you can set veribals to text you can't type text in an <(  <=>  )> block making that feature next to useless

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. That sucks but I guess having string variables with limited uses is better than having none at all.

Loving the lists!! I am creating a movie taking game! (Please no one take my idea! I'm working very hard on this!)

Hi, jcubed.

Oh, there are lots of uses for strings that don't involve comparison. And, as Paddle2See pointed out, you can compare two variables that contain strings.

In the 1.3 release, the goal was just to add lists. But we did not want to limit lists to just numbers because allowing lists to include text (strings) has so many fun and interesting applications.

We may expand the range of things that you can do with strings in a future release.

  -- John

johnadmin wrote:

Hi, jcubed.

Oh, there are lots of uses for strings that don't involve comparison. And, as Paddle2See pointed out, you can compare two variables that contain strings.

In the 1.3 release, the goal was just to add lists. But we did not want to limit lists to just numbers because allowing lists to include text (strings) has so many fun and interesting applications.

We may expand the range of things that you can do with strings in a future release.

  -- John

still, it would be nice to be able to compair a veriable without making another

Hi Scratch Team and specially John,

thank you very much for the wonderful new features in Scratch 1.3!

Some annotations:
1.
Bug or feature? You can create code for making "lists of lists" but it doesn't do  what it should do: So better don't allow to add a list to an other list, or implement the correct behavior.

2.
Please make a color-distinction between local and global variables, like we were used to in Scratch 1.2

3.
A very easy to understand and to implement feature for Scratch 1.4 was something like "put VARIABLE in LIST" and "put LIST in VARIABLE" to convert the textual representation of a string or a number to a List (with each character as one element) and vice versa. So all kinds of text-Manipulation could be programmed in Scratch, without adding to much new structures.

4.
Many Scratch programs make use of a group of Sprites with exact the same implementation (just copies). When changing only one thing you have to delete the group and make a copies of the changed sprite to recreated the group, again and again: That's annoying!!! It would be valuable to create an easy mechanism for that. I understand that a "create copy of a sprite" in runtime would cause complications and perhaps would break the "easiness of Scratch". But perhaps in Scratch 1.4  you could implement a "Sprite-Area" with index ? With a menuclick on such a "Sprite-Area" you could change it's representation in the Sprite-pane from "all in one" to "each represented separate". A small Area-Name with index number in the Sprite-Pane representation could show, that this sprite is an element of a "Sprite-Area". So the mechanism was very easy to use and to understand.

John: What do you think about this suggestions?

Hi, Martin.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments and suggestions.

Re: lists of lists

We decided not to support lists of lists in Scratch. We actually considered that, along with several other design alternatives, such as a spreadsheet-like table structure, before settling on the current list design. We wanted to keep the list design as simple and concrete as possible.

The Scratch list reporter returns a string containing all of the list elements concatenated with spaces between them. This was primarily intended as a way to build sentences and stories, and for use with the "say" block.

Re: color distinction

With the drop-down menu, you can change between a local and global variable. Should the block change color when you make a menu selection? Perhaps we could make it do that in the next release. But there is also the issue of global/local lists. Should the list blocks also change color? If so, that would be four very similar colors (given that they all come from the same category). It might be difficult to tell them apart...

Re: "put VARIABLE in LIST" and "put LIST in VARIABLE"

Good idea! I like the idea of doing string manipulation using lists. We will consider that for a future release.

Re: cloning

This is a frequently-requested feature.

As you may know, we tried cloning in an earlier (non-public) version of Scratch and ran into a number complications. Using cloning was tricky for both beginners and experts. We fixed some of the problems (e.g. we put a limit on the total number of clones to prevent run-away cloning from slowing Scratch to the point where you had to just force-quit), but we were still not happy with the design. Recently, however, we had some new ideas about cloning, so we may try it again, at least as an offline experiment.

Stay tuned for further developments...

  -- John

<forever if>scratch 1.3 is awesome!

Last edited by RagnARok (2008-09-07 10:17:40)

When I Downloaded It It Deleted All The Projects Off Of My Computer Help!!!!

I just uploaded a 1.3 project. I tried it online, but it didn't work. I had it so a list would be showing, but it wasn't there. I also wanted it to let you enter some amounts and use them later. Here is the link: (Link To Project)
I think the online scratch isn't updated for 1.3, because on my program it adds amounts to a list. When the list had at least 2 items, you could click done. But even after I added two, it didn't do any thing.

Hi John,

thank you for your detailed answer: I'm always positively astonished how fast and interested the Scratch team reacts to suggestions. That's very motivating!

here my feedback to your answers:

Re: lists of lists
So, you should not allow to put a list variable into a list: In 1.3 you can!!! (but naturally  it doesn't have an effect)

Re: color distinction
in Scratch 1.2 local and global variables had different kinds of orange color. in 1.3 you use the same colors to distinct variables form lists, but lost the distinction between locals an globals: Get it back - get it both - that's what I meant! If four different kinds of orange are to difficult, perhaps you can make an other difference (e.g. a small dot or a frame in a variable or list-block, that shows that it is local).


Re: "put VARIABLE in LIST" and "put LIST in VARIABLE"
Thank you for considering the idea: I would love to have it in 1.4 :-)

Re: cloning
Please read my suggestion (above): Perhaps that could be a start for a solution ?
I would be delighted if you would solve this matter and make it easy and consistent to use a kind of cloning. I think the most difficult thing  is an understandable interface, that doesn't disturb Scratch starters. Perhaps if you avoid run-time cloning, it's all easier: What do you think about the "Array-Of-Sprite" idea described above, with it's two representation-views in the Sprite-Pane?

Last edited by MartinWollenweber (2008-09-08 13:34:23)

GameMan43 wrote:

When I Downloaded It It Deleted All The Projects Off Of My Computer Help!!!!

Try searching your entire hard drive for *.sb
(actually search *.sb)

Last edited by coolstuff (2008-09-07 17:36:47)

Hi, all.

The Scratch 1.3 installer does not delete user-created projects. I've tested it carefully. In at least case, someone who thought their projects had been deleted found that they were there after all. So if you think your projects were deleted, restart Scratch and look again; they should still be there.

NOTE: Scratch does replace the old sample projects with new ones. If you edited one of the sample projects and did not save it with a different name, you should be sure to either rename it or make a copy of it outside of the Scratch folder before you update to Scratch 1.3.

The installer only changes files in the Scratch folder, so if you normally keep your projects somewhere else (such as your home folder or on the desktop), they are safe. If you keep your projects inside the Scratch folder, it's a good idea to make a copy of your Scratch projects outside of the Scratch folder before updating to Scratch 1.3.

Please report any problems using the contact form:

  http://scratch.mit.edu/contact/us

  -- John