Scratch

BoltBait · 2009-11-18 13:52:16

I say, remove it from the editor and when a project is loaded with that block, simply rewrite it to use more primitive blocks. But, leave support for it in the online player.

This would encourage people not to use it, but not break older projects.

rdococ · 2009-11-27 18:41:34

Chrischb wrote:
I'm confused on whether the online player will or will not be affected by its removal. Whichever way, I'm more fussed about whether or not it would work downloaded - we may have to go back and edit our projects to fix it.
It's not a problem to me, but for those who liked it and have lots of projects... it might not be very convenient.

If removed, projects come unplayable offline.

hmnwilson · 2009-11-27 19:21:47

rdococ wrote:
Chrischb wrote:
I'm confused on whether the online player will or will not be affected by its removal. Whichever way, I'm more fussed about whether or not it would work downloaded - we may have to go back and edit our projects to fix it.
It's not a problem to me, but for those who liked it and have lots of projects... it might not be very convenient.
If removed, projects come unplayable offline.

I don't think that's how it works.

The scratch team has removed blocks from time to time. They still work when you download the project, but the block itself is red.

Here's the old abs block from 1.1- when you open it in 1.4:

The block still works when you use it in a project, but you won't find it in the scripts panel. That's probably what would happen to the forever if block.

Last edited by hmnwilson (2009-11-27 19:27:16)

DarthPickley · 2009-12-01 04:07:45

how hard would it be anyways for the newer version to automatically convert
[blocks]
<forever if>
blah blah blah
<end>

to

<forever>
<if>
blah blah blah
<end>
<end>
[/blocks]
??

IF it is easily doable, then by all means, do it!
If it isn't, then... it should at least be attempted if not impossible. I think the forever if block is one of the most useless and least frequently used blocks ever. Sometimes I use it in my projects, only because I feel sorry for it.

ThePCKid · 2009-12-13 18:04:35

[blocks]
The <color[ ]is over[> block was renamed to <color[]is_touching_color[]>
The <forever if> block IS obsolete
[/blocks]

ThePCKid · 2009-12-13 18:06:06

hmnwilson wrote:
rdococ wrote:
Chrischb wrote:
I'm confused on whether the online player will or will not be affected by its removal. Whichever way, I'm more fussed about whether or not it would work downloaded - we may have to go back and edit our projects to fix it.
It's not a problem to me, but for those who liked it and have lots of projects... it might not be very convenient.
If removed, projects come unplayable offline.
I don't think that's how it works.

The scratch team has removed blocks from time to time. They still work when you download the project, but the block itself is red.

Here's the old abs block from 1.1- when you open it in 1.4:
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/9250f6379c.png
The block still works when you use it in a project, but you won't find it in the scripts panel. That's probably what would happen to the forever if block.

Thats the same thing as ([abs^] of ())

RyanBenLee · 2009-12-18 00:08:21

Although I NEVER use it. I think that the foreverif block has its own unique function and IS different from forever with if in it. But I don't really care if it's gone or not cause I NEVER use it!

scimonster · 2011-01-19 03:56:03

hmnwilson wrote:
rdococ wrote:
Chrischb wrote:
I'm confused on whether the online player will or will not be affected by its removal. Whichever way, I'm more fussed about whether or not it would work downloaded - we may have to go back and edit our projects to fix it.
It's not a problem to me, but for those who liked it and have lots of projects... it might not be very convenient.
If removed, projects come unplayable offline.
I don't think that's how it works.

The scratch team has removed blocks from time to time. They still work when you download the project, but the block itself is red.

Here's the old abs block from 1.1- when you open it in 1.4:
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/9250f6379c.png
The block still works when you use it in a project, but you won't find it in the scripts panel. That's probably what would happen to the forever if block.

I agree 100%
When downloaded, the block will function, but be red.
It will also not be available.

mathematics · 2011-01-19 04:18:30

This block is not useful for new Scratchers, and can even be misleading. When I started Scratching, I also thought that the "Forever If" is the same as this:
[blocks]<wait until>
<forever>
<end>[/blocks]

Look at this image:

如果 = if
就 = [This word has no meaning in English.]
重複執行 = repeat

So the above block can be translated as: "if <>, repeat". The translator(s) is/are also misled by this block! Another reason for this block to be removed! tongue

Last edited by mathematics (2011-01-19 04:23:05)

scimonster · 2011-01-19 05:31:09

When I started scratch, I also thought that .

Harakou · 2011-01-19 07:24:31

scimonster wrote:
When I started scratch, I also thought that .

Sounds like that's a common misconception. tongue I honestly had no idea what it meant; I had to test it in scripts to figure out it was the exact same thing as an if block inside a forever block. I agree that there's really no use for it, and should be deleted if possible.

Last edited by Harakou (2011-01-19 07:24:49)

coolstuff · 2011-01-19 07:49:47

Yes, I thought the same thing as scimonster. I never used the block, and it does cause so much confusion I'm afraid to say that it might be better if we simply disposed of it.

LS97 · 2011-01-19 13:44:45

The forever if block reduces lag by a tiny bit in offline (and i believe online) projects. But this tiny bit is really useful if what you need to do is repeated forever!

Let's say you need to, for some reason, add up a variable as fast as possible. To reach 200 in a forever then if block, it wold take 4000ms, so 4 seconds. With the forever if block, it would simply take 2000ms (2 seconds) to complete the same action!

Oh, and if you weren't particularly attentive, I am for keeping the block.

Last edited by LS97 (2011-01-19 13:45:25)

bbbeb · 2011-01-19 15:58:54

LS97 wrote:
The forever if block reduces lag by a tiny bit in offline (and i believe online) projects. But this tiny bit is really useful if what you need to do is repeated forever!

Let's say you need to, for some reason, add up a variable as fast as possible. To reach 200 in a forever then if block, it wold take 4000ms, so 4 seconds. With the forever if block, it would simply take 2000ms (2 seconds) to complete the same action!

Oh, and if you weren't particularly attentive, I am for keeping the block.

*Facepalm*
Maybe remove forever and repeat lag too? big_smile

I support the removal.

And for the "It won't work in offline!" Add it to the never-ending list of obsolete blocks. lol

Last edited by bbbeb (2011-01-19 15:59:48)

Paddle2See · 2011-01-19 21:21:39

coolstuff wrote:
Yes, I thought the same thing as scimonster. I never used the block, and it does cause so much confusion I'm afraid to say that it might be better if we simply disposed of it.

I use it very rarely as well. I usually like to keep my options open so I like to have the Else clause of the IF available to me so I might use a Forever and an IF Else block. Or, use a Wait block.

Has anybody added a suggestion to the Suggestions Page? That's where the development team is looking to help prioritize the development efforts.

Jonathanpb · 2011-01-19 21:35:38

Don't they even look at the Suggestions forum? Dx

fullmoon · 2011-01-19 21:51:05

As I remember, the "forever if" block was introduced as an easier-to-understand alternative to the "When < >" hat. I think it is less confusing but it still isn't immediately clear what it does...a new user might easily assume it tests the condition once and runs the loop forever only if it reports true, which of course is the opposite of its actual functionality. +1 for its removal, although I can see why some people might want to keep it.

mathematics · 2011-01-20 01:45:52

Wait. Isn't this the same as the block?

scimonster · 2011-01-20 01:47:49

no. that block starts when the condition is true. this is always checking, but only runs if the condition is true. it produces lag cause its always running.

Paddle2See · 2011-01-20 05:09:46

Jonathanpb wrote:
Don't they even look at the Suggestions forum? Dx

Sure...but there are so many suggestions! In order to actually decide which ones are important to the community, they look at the voting site. That's not to say that they will or won't decide to implement a suggestion depending on what it gets for votes...but they are more likely to focus attention on something that gets a strong showing in the voting.

scimonster · 2011-01-20 05:25:08

http://suggest.scratch.mit.edu/forums/6 … forever-if

mrshanko · 2011-01-20 23:41:33

I disagree. I don't see how anyone can confuse it for

<repeat until>.

<forever if>

has the word "If" in it. That means only repeat if whatever boolean block in the box is true.

Last edited by mrshanko (2011-01-20 23:42:05)

kayybee · 2011-01-20 23:43:04

okay, some people can get confused, not everyone will know that, smartypants.

lucari0 · 2011-01-21 15:07:14

I couldn't disagrree more. Almost all of my projects use the forever block once or twice. Without that block, I'd have to delete all of my stuff, and I have alot. I mean, seriously, whats so bad about it? It's helpful, to like, half the projects on the site! lets keep this in!

<forever>
<end>

The_Dancing_Donut · 2011-01-21 15:20:19

Only 14.41% of projects contain the 'Forever If' block, less than a fifth. We'd live without it, I'm sure. smile

Scratch

archived forums

#26 2009-11-18 13:52:16

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#27 2009-11-27 18:41:34

Re: Delete the Forever If block

Chrischb wrote:

#28 2009-11-27 19:21:47

Re: Delete the Forever If block

rdococ wrote:

Chrischb wrote:

#29 2009-12-01 04:07:45

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#30 2009-12-13 18:04:35

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#31 2009-12-13 18:06:06

Re: Delete the Forever If block

hmnwilson wrote:

rdococ wrote:

Chrischb wrote:

#32 2009-12-18 00:08:21

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#33 2011-01-19 03:56:03

Re: Delete the Forever If block

hmnwilson wrote:

rdococ wrote:

Chrischb wrote:

#34 2011-01-19 04:18:30

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#35 2011-01-19 05:31:09

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#36 2011-01-19 07:24:31

Re: Delete the Forever If block

scimonster wrote:

#37 2011-01-19 07:49:47

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#38 2011-01-19 13:44:45

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#39 2011-01-19 15:58:54

Re: Delete the Forever If block

LS97 wrote:

#40 2011-01-19 21:21:39

Re: Delete the Forever If block

coolstuff wrote:

#41 2011-01-19 21:35:38

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#42 2011-01-19 21:51:05

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#43 2011-01-20 01:45:52

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#44 2011-01-20 01:47:49

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#45 2011-01-20 05:09:46

Re: Delete the Forever If block

Jonathanpb wrote:

#46 2011-01-20 05:25:08

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#47 2011-01-20 23:41:33

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#48 2011-01-20 23:43:04

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#49 2011-01-21 15:07:14

Re: Delete the Forever If block

#50 2011-01-21 15:20:19

Re: Delete the Forever If block

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