Scratch

I don't mind mini-modding all that much when it's done right. The problem is, the members of our community don't really understand what justifies mini-modding as "right" so they often do it the wrong way, which rather annoys me. For instance, [name removed by Moderator]'s report telling us to [removed by Moderator] unnerved me; somebody mini-modding on the mods sort of made it feel like he was being a know-it-all.

As for a solution: I think we should discourage mini-modding when we can. As the link you gave us pointed out, it disrupts the conversation and is off-topic, so it's not quite the most pleasant thing around. A simple post saying "thanks for trying to help, but please don't do this..." whenever somebody tries to mini-mod should do the trick. The moderators were elected/chosen for their people skills (heh), so just reporting it ought to be sufficient, then we can deal with it ourselves in a way that doesn't make the person doing the modding sound like a know-it-all, and doesn't make the person who did something wrong feel like an idiot.

What do you guys think?

Last edited by Paddle2See (2010-12-05 12:29:12)

I'm too lazy to type now, I'll just repost something I wrote a long time ago:

I believe the subject of mini-modding, as well as backseat modding, is a bit of an issue. Mini-modding and backseat-modding can sometimes come of as being disrespectful, not being friendly, and/or spammish (thus potentially breaking the Terms of Use).

I'd write more about this, but I think a mini-modding topic from another forum pretty much sums up why mini-modding is such an issue:

What exactly is mini-modding?
Mini-modding is enforcing the rules without having the authority to do so, in simple worlds, you are doing what moderators should be doing, but you're not a moderator.

Here are some examples:
"Don't Double post"
"Don't spam"
"Don't insult/bash/flame..."
"This thread is against the rules"
"Please, don't do that"
"Don't go off-topic" (When you say it, you are doing this yourself, actually)
"I'll report you" (Just report the member, don't threaten with it or say that you did)

These kind of posts don't add to the topic, and are therefor spam, even when they are part of a bigger post.

But, why is this such a big problem? The more people enforcing the rules the better, right?
WRONG, mini-modders don't always know the rules, or might be too hard on the member. There is also nothing they can really do, except for pointing out what the member did wrong, so just let the mods do their job.

But, what can we do then? I really want to help!
Just click "Report" to report a post, a mod will do something about it as fast as possible. Obviously, you should only report a post if there's something wrong with it, or if rules have been broken.

Can't we really say anything to a rule-breaker?
Of course you can say something like "I'm sorry, but I think you're going off-topic" when someone breaks a small rule and it's not worth reporting, but don't be too rude and don't do this too often. And we would prefer it if you'd just report it, even if it's not too necessary. These kind of sentences should of course be part of a bigger post, just so you don't go off-topic.

I like the part about where they say why mini-modding is such a problem, as well as the correct approach when you feel to need to point of something that otherwise breaks forum etiquette. There are some cases where we can point out something if it helps (ie. to keep the topic back on track or if it helps a new member around the forums), but, for the most part, I think it's best if we report most things to moderators without making a big public fuss about it. 

The part about the minimod being wrong and/or being too harsh is what concerns me the most, especially considering the fact that the Scratch forums is usually one of the first forums visited by young ones. And per the explanation in the second question and from experience, I feel that minimodding is more likely to cause problems and extra work for moderators as opposed to helping us instead. 

Last edited by cheddargirl (2010-12-04 19:01:47)

I think it would be fine to make this more public.

I think it's good when people are aware of the rules, and mention them in friendly / positive ways. I wouldn't want us to be the only ones who could mention that a thread was getting off topic.

But if someone who wants to help can't do it in a way that's gentle and friendly, it's best they not do it at all. It's hard to get this distinction across sometimes - I've certainly struggled to explain it to a few Scratchers.

Perhaps a story or animation of some kind is the best way to show the bad dynamics that happen with mini-modding?

I don't think what's on the list is really annoying to members
The mini-modding that's annoying is when people try to imitate a moderator
For example, when they say "Please don't [insert something] Thanks, and Scratch on"
That's what annoys me the most
Telling people that they're off topic is just helping, not minimodding

scmb1 wrote:

I think mini-modding is usually rather annoying and unnecessary. I mean, why mini- mod when you can press Report and avoid all the drama? The only instances I can remember kind-of mini-modding is when I tell a user (generally a new user) that a topic might get more attention in a different forum, but I'm not sure if that counts entirely. That sort of presents a new problem-- if you were to forbid mini-modding, where exactly would you cut it off? While I'm pretty sure a message like "Please don't spam on the Scratch forums" would be better if replaced by a Report, a message like "Let's get back on topic. I don't want this to get closed" seems pretty much okay to me. So, I guess after all that typing, I don't know if mini-modding should be allowed or not. 

PS: Cheddar, or whoever else can answer, what exactly is backseat modding? Is it the same as mini modding?

They are pretty much similar. Both can refer to someone who acts like a moderator or forum administrator without really having such a title. What separates the two ideas is that backseat modding involves a non-mod telling other mods what to do (for example: some posting "Mods, please lock this thread" as opposed to using the report button).

I would imagine mini-modding to be a good thing: it is helping lessen a mod's work load, and it shows the user is responsible and a good contributor to the community. I would prefer mini-modding over spam-filled, out-of-control topics any day.

ESN wrote:

I would imagine mini-modding to be a good thing: it is helping lessen a mod's work load, and it shows the user is responsible and a good contributor to the community. I would prefer mini-modding over spam-filled, out-of-control topics any day.

I'd prefer neither

XplodingEggs wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

ESN wrote:

I would imagine mini-modding to be a good thing: it is helping lessen a mod's work load, and it shows the user is responsible and a good contributor to the community. I would prefer mini-modding over spam-filled, out-of-control topics any day.

The problem is when fights spill out over mini-modding, particularly when the mini-mod is harsh and/or wrong and they fail to get a moderator's attention to deal with the issue right away if need be. There are some cases where mini-modding actually makes a bigger problem for actual moderators to clean up. Me, I'd prefer if people flag things for a real moderator to take care of rather than have mini-mods running about - that would definitely make my life easier.

Yes, I agree, I think it is better for people to just report it and let a real moderator deal with the issue. However, as with the flagging button, I think it would be good if it simply got removed after a certain number of reports (I don't know if it already does this, if it does, ignore this sentence) so if none of the moderators/scratch team were on, it could be dealt with. Maybe they mini-mods think they are being helpful by doing it, but unless it is actually contributing to the conversation, it is annoying, and might be considered by some as spam/trolling. 

it does that with scratch projects


With experienced scratchers, sure. But what about with new scratchers who don't know any better? Reporting them seems a little harsh.

OldWheezerGeezer wrote:

XplodingEggs wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

The problem is when fights spill out over mini-modding, particularly when the mini-mod is harsh and/or wrong and they fail to get a moderator's attention to deal with the issue right away if need be. There are some cases where mini-modding actually makes a bigger problem for actual moderators to clean up. Me, I'd prefer if people flag things for a real moderator to take care of rather than have mini-mods running about - that would definitely make my life easier.

Yes, I agree, I think it is better for people to just report it and let a real moderator deal with the issue. However, as with the flagging button, I think it would be good if it simply got removed after a certain number of reports (I don't know if it already does this, if it does, ignore this sentence) so if none of the moderators/scratch team were on, it could be dealt with. Maybe they mini-mods think they are being helpful by doing it, but unless it is actually contributing to the conversation, it is annoying, and might be considered by some as spam/trolling. 

it does that with scratch projects


With experienced scratchers, sure. But what about with new scratchers who don't know any better? Reporting them seems a little harsh.

I'd like to think of reporting as less harsh. Sometimes, mini-mods may be harsh towards the New Scratcher, particularly, when they flat-out say to the New Scratch that they're doing wrong - at least in the case of reporting, a moderator can take care of the issue and have private message sent of the correction if necessary (or, if the correction need be public, it could be left more as a tip on how to use the forums rather than as a correction).

Keep in mind that reports shouldn't be viewed as infractions against a Scratcher - the button is just there for anything that needs a mods attention, whether it is moving a topic to the right section or getting a title changed. 

Last edited by cheddargirl (2010-12-05 20:35:27)

This is an interesting dicussion Paddle. I am glad you brought it to the public.    I find that there are two kinds of "mini-modding" (Heheh, new term.  ).

One involves a person activley telling someone that they are breaking the rules, and that they might/will be punished for it. This usually involves the "informer" calling the single person specifically out about what they did wrong. This method usually involves the imitaiting mod speak too, such as "Thanks, and Scratch On"

The second method is much more relaxed where the "informant" is merely suggesting a better course of action for next time. Rather than call a specific incident, the person will usually use generalizers, and make it seem less personal to the person who made the mistake.

I believe that while the first instance might be useful in some cases (Such as threads in the wrong place, where it will be a specific fix.) , it should be reserved for the moderators only, because it is so specific and personal. The second way, being general, and suggesting for the next time, is fine because it is a suggestion. It's not a "Your wrong, do it my way" but an "Hey, try this. It might work out better."  I believe that this will prove much less confrontational than a direct approach.

P.S. Minimodding never works if the person is condescending. (I mean using the "Scratch On!" When you aren't a mod. Just sayin.  )

I support Jonathan and everyone on that side, because mods have their jobs, but then again, people who are not old enough to run for mod or something might want to be part of the community...

Sorry, I accidentally mini-modded ^^'

I'll hit the report button next time. (Sorry Wolfie)