Scratch

There's a system that changes the projects every 5 or so minutes. So for the most part, a lot of projects are uploaded that don't get on Newest Projects because they aren't the newest when the slot updates itself.

Well, it's true that it's not really fair, but this is to reduce the stress on the server.

Last edited by mathematics (2010-10-24 03:01:35)

kayybee wrote:

I know that the "newest projects" get more views than the regular ones, but isn't that what show and tell is for? or the gallery? There are lots of ways to get famous, not just by newest projects. the "newest projects" don't really have much views after they leave the front page. most of the frontpaged projects are almost never in "newest projects" If you really hate not getting views (just get over it like a normal scratcher), then go make your own flash game and post it on a famous website or something.

First of all, the Show and tell rarely works. I see lots of threads that die within a day (without bumping). Sadly, most of my threads are mostly like that way too. I get some views, but not very much.

I’ve seen a project go from being on the newest projects section to being well on the way to top viewed! When I viewed that project when it was just submitted, it got 15 views in 5 minutes!

Aside from newest projects section, there isn’t much that you can do, other than spamming popular projects, or being endorsed by a heavily popular Scratcher like swifty2. Aspiring Scratchers face two main obstacles on their road to the front page: Them not being very recognized, and the fact that projects made by famous Scratchers naturally get more views! To take away the newest projects section or to restrict it really hurts many Scratchers' chances of getting a little bit of recognition!

I’m also sure that at least some “normal” Scratchers aspire to get famous and/or be on the front page, or at least get 50 views! Look at the “become a curator” thread for evidence. There are a lot new Scratchers who submit applications because they just want to be famous, or at least recognized. Your generalization is wayyyyy too general.

Lastly, I believe that famous Flash game sites like Kongregate and Newgrounds still suffer the same flaws as Scratch does. The reason why those sites are popular is that they have a LOT of users. Although you get more views in general, each view is "worth" less as those communities are large. So it is actually HARDER to get views because there would be more new entries on those sites submitted in the same timeframe compared to what the Scratch community submits.

My point still stands. There needs to be some way to spread the fame around so that each new project gets equal recognition and the good projects really shine instead of being largely ignored!

cheddargirl wrote:

The above tips are what I followed when I started out Scratch and wanted more people to view my projects. Trust me, they do work. 

Yep, those tips work, but that we HAVE to self-promote heavily to get attention divides the community into:
1. Those that know and do these tips, or are already popular.  (These may or may not create projects that the community believes should be on the front page.)
2. And those that don't know these tips or don't have the time to self promote.  They may make great projects but often burnout after a while in frustration.

The front page is not growing or updating more frequently as the community grows, so this divide is becoming larger and larger.


I believe that's a flaw and worthy of "troubleshooting". 

So, that leads to possible solutions:
I think self-promotion/asking for help or attention should be one button, or click-and-drag.  (And optionally, typing a short request.) then make it easier to find others that want help/attention.  As you help them, others are more likely to help you.

(Clutter just added "Showcased projects" that should help here.)

And make grouping of projects by tag better, mini front pages/communities for every tag so people with similar interests/goals hang out together.

Or what else could fix this?
Perhaps make that list of ways to get attention more available?

Last edited by JTxt (2010-10-27 20:01:48)

Ok, sorry, we strayed from the original problem:

Many newest projects are never shown on the front page.

The front page is changed every 5 minutes, this (called caching) is to prevent the database from being read (a slow process) as often.

The result for "newest projects" is that 3 lucky projects get 5 minutes on the front page, while projects between get no exposure.

Here's a solution inspired from here (thanks scmb1 and paulmedwal) adapted a bit more for "newest projects":
For every time the front page cache is refreshed (currently every 5 minutes):
  Load the list of newest projects since the last cache refresh from the database,
    If there are 3 or less, just load and show the 3 latests projects to everyone that visits.
    Else (if more than 3), on every page view, pick 3 from this list (of the latest projects since last cache) at random to show on the front page.

That way each new project gets equal exposure on the front page and the database is not tortured as often.

(Yeah, it's kinda off topic that I think showing "newest projects" on the front page is not helpful enough anyway.  :)  It's more like a shotgun approach when we need something targeted.  So yes, either:
1. Plaster those tips for self-promotion in a very obvious place, like when we upload projects and/or put it on the front page.  (Sticky in the forum is a start but just helps the relatively few scratchers that visit the forum and read stickies.) So people are encouraged to "put themselves out there" and help others to increase their chances of getting help/attention.  Good.
AND/OR Better: (imo)
2. Make that process of "helping others to get help/attention" obvious and easy--  A. Dead easy to request help/attention to a project.  B. Then you're guided to help others in the same boat now, to increase your chances of getting help/attention now. I believe this would follow the spirit of those tips, while leveling the playing field.
AND/OR Better:
3. Something we haven't thought of yet. :)  )

Last edited by JTxt (2010-11-01 15:38:45)

benjamin2 wrote:

This has a one in five chance of happening. To me, four in five of my projects get there. I uploaded some test projects and then deleted them. I was looking at the time I uploaded them. If, on a 24 hour digital clock, the minutes end in 4 or 9 (example, 05:34 or 16:59), then the slot updates itself before it has a chance to be added.

Yes sometimes it's 1 in 5,
But this varies with how fast scratchers are adding projects. (a lot) 
When we upload 3 or fewer in 5 minutes, (perhaps late at night when most scratchers are asleep) no projects are skipped.
When 6 are uploaded in 5 minutes, 3 are skipped: half of the projects.

Right now, in the last 5 minutes, there were 14 projects uploaded, so 11 projects did not get any front page exposure.

See? 

(solution for this problem offered above.)

Last edited by JTxt (2010-10-30 16:10:44)

Cool discussion - and by the way, I really like the idea of populating the "What the community is loving / viewing" rows with a random selection of 3 of the top 10 projects. I hope that idea gets more support / votes.

re: Newest row - I'm not sure if I'm understanding the proposal correctly, so I apologize in advance if I get this wrong. But since we cannot show all the Newest projects as they are shared, aren't the 3 that are shown practically random?

Oh wait.. I think I'm starting to understand better after reading a bit more... For each visitor choose a random selection, so that pretty much each newest project will receive at least some views. Clever.... I like it! Might take some work to code - let me run it by some of our devs. Is this already on the suggestions site? It should be if it isn't.

I say make a large amount of projects, and consistently upload for like 10 minutes.

Lightnin wrote:

It's great that Paulmedwal has already implemented this on Clutter... Should help convince other members of ST that this is a good idea.

Do you mean that?  I just used that as inspiration for a solution to this. 

His use of "showcased projects" instead of "newest project" (thankfully) makes this problem irrelevant anyway... if you do the same for Scratch. 

Except, it's currently "random showcased" instead of "newly showcased", we don't know if these people really want attention to it now... they may be inactive. 
If we do "recently showcased" than this solution may be relevant again.  Here's more thoughts on "showcased projects".)

Last edited by JTxt (2010-11-02 19:48:00)

update: Paulmedwal is looking into the possibility of doing this on the main website. It might be tricky, so we can't commit yet ( Our server gets a lot of traffic, so things that would be easy on a small site get a lot more complicated for us ).

I love that!