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#1876 2010-09-28 06:05:05

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hi icecool44,

aha, now I think I understand your problem. Thanks for taking the time and effort to test and describe it all so precisely. This Unicode faking in Squeak keeps haunting me, I'll look into it. I'm wondering: Is it just the name in the language menu that's wrong or are other labels/strings containing accented characters also coming out incorrect?

Thanks again!

Last edited by Jens (2010-09-28 06:06:08)


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#1877 2010-09-28 11:33:30

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

@Shadow: March 9-12, 2011 is the annual SIGCSE (Special Interest Group in Computer Science Education) conference, and this year it's in Dallas.  Is that close enough for a day trip for you?  Mar 12 is Saturday, so we could meet after the conference (3pm or so), have an early dinner, and you could drop me off at DFW in time for my 8pm flight home.  Ask your parents.


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#1878 2010-09-28 17:07:16

shadow_7283
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Registered: 2007-11-07
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

I'll definitely ask!

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#1879 2010-09-28 18:34:42

icecool44
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Registered: 2009-04-30
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Thanks again!
Hi Jens

1°) I have made a new post in the french forum :
BYOB on the french forum

Jens wrote:

Hi icecool44,
I'm wondering:
Is it just the name in the language menu that's wrong or are other labels/strings containing accented characters also coming out incorrect?
Thanks again!

2°) The answer to your question is : yes
But the best for you is to download this file :
Here is the link to the file fr_CA.po still being translated:

It happens in the language menu.
But it happens in other menu too.

Let us check the Sound block : set instrument to ( value of an instrument ).
If the name of an instrument is written with accented characters, the name comes out incorrect either in french or german.
For example : instrument n° 74  ; flute in english ; unreadable in french or german.

Thanks for your answer

Last edited by icecool44 (2010-10-05 10:16:37)

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#1880 2010-10-01 07:01:15

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

check out "Karel the Robot" in both Scratch and BYOB by Moti Ben-Ari:
http://code.google.com/p/scratch-karel/

Last edited by Jens (2010-10-01 07:02:04)


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#1881 2010-10-02 16:09:39

rubiks_cube_guy238
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Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

*shove* (a more powerful *bump*) wow this topic was at the bottom of advanced topics


The glass is never half full nor half empty; it is twice as large as it needs to be.

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#1882 2010-10-03 00:53:42

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

rubiks_cube_guy238 wrote:

wow this topic was at the bottom of advanced topics

Well, there hasn't really been any news in the past few days.  It's okay; it's not as if we're paid royalties based on our chart position.  smile


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#1883 2010-10-03 01:04:26

fg123
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Registered: 2008-11-13
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hey Brian, do you mind if I try to create a more eye-appealing site for BYOB, rather than just that black on white?

big_smile

I'll work on it as a side project.  smile


Hai.

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#1884 2010-10-03 13:42:23

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

fg123 wrote:

Hey Brian, do you mind if I try to create a more eye-appealing site for BYOB, rather than just that black on white?

As long as it remains readable in my browser: minimum 22 point type, black background, white foreground, don't let sites choose fonts or colors.  (In other words, you can't make any assumptions about how the browser will render your HTML.  Too many sites come out black on black or white on white when I try to use them.  Or the text doesn't fit in a fixed-size box they've allocated based on the assumption of a small font.)


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#1885 2010-10-03 14:11:30

nXIII
Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-04-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

fg123 wrote:

Hey Brian, do you mind if I try to create a more eye-appealing site for BYOB, rather than just that black on white?

As long as it remains readable in my browser: minimum 22 point type, black background, white foreground, don't let sites choose fonts or colors.  (In other words, you can't make any assumptions about how the browser will render your HTML.  Too many sites come out black on black or white on white when I try to use them.  Or the text doesn't fit in a fixed-size box they've allocated based on the assumption of a small font.)

Well, the alternative is to do what a lot of sites do; provide a plain-text or all-HTML version of the site as well as a styled one.

Example: m.facebook.com vs. facebook.com

Last edited by nXIII (2010-10-03 14:18:35)


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#1886 2010-10-03 17:15:07

inbridge
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Registered: 2010-10-03
Posts: 2

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

What's the status on the BYOB name change (what will it be, and when will it occur)? I'd like to use the program with my students, but the current name could be problematic.

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#1887 2010-10-03 23:43:53

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

Well, the alternative is to do what a lot of sites do; provide a plain-text or all-HTML version of the site as well as a styled one.

I guess that'd work.  We could have byob.berkeley.edu and fancy.byob.berkeley.edu.   smile

EDIT: Alternatively, we could have a start page containing nothing but two big buttons: "I was born before October 5, 1962" and "I was born on or after October 5, 1962."  The former would take you to the existing page and the latter to fg123's fancy one.  And it'd set a cookie so after the first time you wouldn't have to choose.

Last edited by bharvey (2010-10-04 00:10:58)


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#1888 2010-10-03 23:47:05

bharvey
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

inbridge wrote:

What's the status on the BYOB name change (what will it be, and when will it occur)? I'd like to use the program with my students, but the current name could be problematic.

We're talking about a total rewrite in another platform (Javascript instead of Smalltalk).  Given that that's in our medium-term future, we're going to keep the existing name for the existing program, and the new version will be called Snap.  (This way I only have to redo all the tutorials once!  smile  )

I should think that'll happen before next (school) year, but maybe not during this one.

EDIT:  But meanwhile, I think you should try BYOB with your students and let us know if anyone actually complains.  (I mean, Shadow is a Texas Republican, and his parents haven't complained!  smile  )

Last edited by bharvey (2010-10-04 00:19:09)


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#1889 2010-10-04 05:33:19

inbridge
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Registered: 2010-10-03
Posts: 2

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Your answer is very disappointing. I'm puzzled why this project name didn't change long ago. Perhaps for older students this is not a problem, but for younger children, it is.

I first need approval to use the program from administrators, and I have to say that if I were an administrator, or parent, I'd have problems with it myself.

I'd ask you to change your plans and simply issue a "new" version with the name change. I'd be willing to help you change tutorials, Web site, etc., though I don't know Squeak.

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#1890 2010-10-04 08:40:43

shadow_7283
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Registered: 2007-11-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

It really isn't a big deal. Sure, most people's first reaction is "What?!", but once you explain it, all I usually get is a simple "Oh."  big_smile

Don't call it BYOB, just call it Build Your Own Blocks if you think it will bother them. And also, think of it this way. We're giving a positive connotation to the term!  tongue

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#1891 2010-10-04 18:19:44

bharvey
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Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

inbridge wrote:

Perhaps for older students this is not a problem, but for younger children, it is.

Boy, I would have said it the other way around.  It's the teenagers whose drinking I'd worry about.

I'm not trying to start a fight, though.  If I weren't teaching three classes plus two days/week in a fifth grade, I'd work on this.  Maybe in the spring (just one class plus the two days/week) I'll have more time.  You and I just disagree on how high on my priority list this should be.


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#1892 2010-10-04 18:42:58

fullmoon
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Personally I don't think BYOB is really that terrible of a name. I see the acronym everywhere (like at my local Whole Foods that suggests that you Bring Your Own Bag) and as far as I know no one has ever accused it of corrupting the youth. Heck, I'm a sophomore in high school myself, and I don't think that "BYOB" really even registers as an alcohol reference with most people my age unless they're System Of A Down fans.


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#1893 2010-10-05 10:58:59

icecool44
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Registered: 2009-04-30
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hi Jens Hi Brian

Here is the link to the file fr_CA.po ; update October 10 th, 2010
A friend of mine have made its own translation of a fr.po, it will be published later.

I still need to improve the translation of some strings.


In order to make the translation of BYOB Manual easier, I have a special document.
Each page of the manual has been laid out on the left side of this document, on the right side is the french ( or an other choosen translation ).
Attention, wait several days in order to have a more seriously advanced translation.

BYOB Manual french .pdf
BYOB Manual french Microsft Office .doc
BYOB Manual french Pages  .pages
Update October 10, 2010

Sincerely,
Thank you for your answer.

Last edited by icecool44 (2010-10-10 06:46:07)

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#1894 2010-10-05 11:56:14

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

BYOB 3.0.7 is available for download.

This minor release contains the following bugfixes and enhancements:

(1) Exporting Sprites

Exporting a sprite whose custom block definitions contain references to another sprite (e.g. "x position OF Sprite1") no longer throws an exception. Thanks for Moti Ben-Ari for finding and reporting this bug.

Caveat: Like in vanilla Scratch such external sprite references get removed in the export process, i.e. not even the name of the referenced sprite is remembered in the exported code. For all pratical matters this means that all exported code containing plain __ OF __ blocks must be edited and fixed again once it is imported into another project.

Workaround: Like in vanilla Scratch you can create a (sprite-local) variable containing the name of the referenced sprite and place it into the OF block's right argument slots. Then, after importing the exported sprite into another project, you can set the variable to the name of whichever other sprite it should refer to now. That way you don't have to edit the custom blocks again (until we invent first-class sprites  smile  ).

(2) Localization

Thanks to Jean-Jacques Valliet (French) and Manuel Menezes de Sequeira (Portuguese) for additional translations and unicode-rendering related bug reports.

(3) Unicode rendering

The language menu now correctly displays language names with accented characters.

Input templates in custom reporter block prototypes now correctly render accented characters. Thanks to Manuel Menezes de Sequeira for reporting, explaining and patiently testing this bug.

(4) Custom block prototype editing

Custom reporter blocks that have just a single space character as label no longer throw an exception and also no longer crash BYOB upon saving the project. Thanks to Josh Paley and his son for discovering this bug.

Right clicking on an input template ("var blob") in a custom block prototype now behaves exactly the same as left-clicking on it, i.e. it lets you edit or delete the blob instead of displaying a menu with obsolete choices. Thanks to Moti Ben-Ari for pointing this out.

----

Thanks to all of you for your testing and project reports, isn't it just mind-blowing how this little project brings together people from all over the world? If anyone would like to permanently join our BYOB-alpha mailing list, just let us know, and we'll be happy to set you up.


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#1895 2010-10-05 15:45:45

icecool44
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Registered: 2009-04-30
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

BYOB
(3) Unicode rendering
The language menu now correctly displays language names with accented characters.

Thanks to all of you for your testing and project reports, isn't it just mind-blowing how this little project brings together people from all over the world? If anyone would like to permanently join our BYOB-alpha mailing list, just let us know, and we'll be happy to set you up.

Thank you very much.
It's a great pleasure to work with you.

I would like to join your BYOB-alpha mailing list, my email adress is : i.scool@mac.com

Sincerely
Jean-Jacques

Last edited by icecool44 (2010-10-05 15:55:16)

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#1896 2010-10-05 19:04:19

MMSequeira
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Registered: 2010-01-04
Posts: 26

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hi,

Is there some way to check preconditions, say, and raise some error if they fail, the same way an error is raised when one tries to calculate the square root of a negative number?

Thanks!

Manuel

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#1897 2010-10-05 19:31:02

nXIII
Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-04-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

MMSequeira wrote:

Hi,

Is there some way to check preconditions, say, and raise some error if they fail, the same way an error is raised when one tries to calculate the square root of a negative number?

Thanks!

Manuel

I use the "debug" block; something like this:
IF <CONDITION>
    REPORT (DEBUG (Error message goes here))
END
Of course, one could also use something that MUST return an error, such as:
IF <CONDITION>
    REPORT (0/0)
END


nXIII

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#1898 2010-10-05 19:45:12

MMSequeira
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-01-04
Posts: 26

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

I use the "debug" block; something like this:
IF <CONDITION>
    REPORT (DEBUG (Error message goes here))
END
Of course, one could also use something that MUST return an error, such as:
IF <CONDITION>
    REPORT (0/0)
END

Thanks! Works great!

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#1899 2010-10-06 03:51:46

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Thanks for this cool hint, nXIII!


Jens Mönig

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#1900 2010-10-06 10:42:46

icecool44
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-30
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hi
Update of the french translation, .pdf document.
I Building a bloc A. Simple Blocs ( page#1-page#4) recursion non included.

Last edited by icecool44 (2010-10-06 10:44:04)

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