Scratch

ScratchReallyROCKS · 2010-09-18 14:47:22

Daffy22 wrote:
ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:
I know but I still wouldn't because some browsers don't support parts of it and some do so it's a bit comfusing... give it a year or two and all browsers will support it!
All the good browsers do.
monzilla does (good)
iexplorer doesn't (good too)
and anyway monzilla doesn't support all features - not one browser supports all html5 features...
anyway thats not the point if a really popular browser like iexplorer doesn't support html5 then html5 is not a good option!

Browsers that support it:

Safari,
Mobile Safari,
Chrome,
Firefox.
Opera.

Browsers that don't support it:

Internet explorer,

As the author of my book says, No one under the age of 40 voluntarily uses Internet Explorer.

Last edited by ScratchReallyROCKS (2010-09-22 16:17:17)

Daffy22 · 2010-09-18 14:55:19

well I do and so do all my friends! big_smile lol
EDIT: anyway we're going a bit off topic let talk about the viewer it's self...

Last edited by Daffy22 (2010-09-18 14:56:14)

nXIII · 2010-09-19 12:42:25

Daffy22 wrote:
But what you don't get is that .sb files are completely different to .html files! Imagine trying to play flash on a java applet - it just won't happen. It's the same story for scratch a .sb will not play in a .html file.
The only way it will work is if Scratch was written in HTML5 (I preffer flash though) and that would just be going of topic make a new scratch viewer not a new scratch.

Look, an sb file just has some bytes in it. So does an HTML file. So, use a temp file upload with an HTML form, and tada! You have all your bytes on the server, ready to be used by javascript. You could even do something like this:
php file: (don't yell at me for using the HTML5 script syntax)

<html><head><script>var fraw = <?php echo file_get_contents($_FILES["sbFile"]["tmp_name"]); ?></script></head></html>

Last edited by nXIII (2010-09-19 12:42:38)

Daffy22 · 2010-09-19 12:45:36

nXIII wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:
But what you don't get is that .sb files are completely different to .html files! Imagine trying to play flash on a java applet - it just won't happen. It's the same story for scratch a .sb will not play in a .html file.
The only way it will work is if Scratch was written in HTML5 (I preffer flash though) and that would just be going of topic make a new scratch viewer not a new scratch.
Look, an sb file just has some bytes in it. So does an HTML file. So, use a temp file upload with an HTML form, and tada! You have all your bytes on the server, ready to be used by javascript. You could even do something like this:
php file: (don't yell at me for using the HTML5 script syntax)

<html><head><script>var fraw = <?php echo file_get_contents($_FILES["sbFile"]["tmp_name"]); ?></script></head></html>

Yes that would read the .sb file but the hard task is undertstanding it! hmm

johnnydean1 · 2010-09-19 12:49:26

nXIII wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:
But what you don't get is that .sb files are completely different to .html files! Imagine trying to play flash on a java applet - it just won't happen. It's the same story for scratch a .sb will not play in a .html file.
The only way it will work is if Scratch was written in HTML5 (I preffer flash though) and that would just be going of topic make a new scratch viewer not a new scratch.
Look, an sb file just has some bytes in it. So does an HTML file. So, use a temp file upload with an HTML form, and tada! You have all your bytes on the server, ready to be used by javascript. You could even do something like this:
php file: (don't yell at me for using the HTML5 script syntax)

<html><head><script>var fraw = <?php echo file_get_contents($_FILES["sbFile"]["tmp_name"]); ?></script></head></html>

Well nXIII are you helping?

Daffy22 · 2010-09-19 13:06:05

I wouldn't mind helping but the only major problem is reading the .sb file into a script php, HTML or JavaScript will understand. wink

S65 · 2010-09-19 13:06:19

So...is there any actual documentation of the .sb format's specifications (other than in the source code)?

Because you guys aren't going to get very far without it (unless you like reverse engineering =P).

BTW for those of you saying JavaScript won't work, I'll just link you to a complete NES emulator made in it, and running at a relatively decent (though still pretty laggy) speed.

Last edited by S65 (2010-09-19 13:07:31)

Daffy22 · 2010-09-19 13:24:01

S65 wrote:
So...is there any actual documentation of the .sb format's specifications (other than in the source code)?

Because you guys aren't going to get very far without it (unless you like reverse engineering =P).

BTW for those of you saying JavaScript won't work, I'll just link you to a complete NES emulator made in it, and running at a relatively decent (though still pretty laggy) speed.

I know we could do with format specification sort of manual. It would be hard without. sad

EDIT: the games you linked too are all very good but are actually made in html not played in html, scratch is made in smalltalk (squeak) and is played on a java application made specifically for scratch projects. Currently a html player has not been made. sad

Last edited by Daffy22 (2010-09-19 13:27:53)

ScratchReallyROCKS · 2010-09-19 13:57:35

Daffy22 wrote:
S65 wrote:
So...is there any actual documentation of the .sb format's specifications (other than in the source code)?

Because you guys aren't going to get very far without it (unless you like reverse engineering =P).

BTW for those of you saying JavaScript won't work, I'll just link you to a complete NES emulator made in it, and running at a relatively decent (though still pretty laggy) speed.
I know we could do with format specification sort of manual. It would be hard without.

EDIT: the games you linked too are all very good but are actually made in html not played in html, scratch is made in smalltalk (squeak) and is played on a java application made specifically for scratch projects. Currently a html player has not been made.

They've gotten Java and Flash to decode Scratch projects. why shouldn't they be able to get HTML to decode it?

Daffy22 · 2010-09-19 14:13:04

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:
S65 wrote:
So...is there any actual documentation of the .sb format's specifications (other than in the source code)?

Because you guys aren't going to get very far without it (unless you like reverse engineering =P).

BTW for those of you saying JavaScript won't work, I'll just link you to a complete NES emulator made in it, and running at a relatively decent (though still pretty laggy) speed.
I know we could do with format specification sort of manual. It would be hard without.

EDIT: the games you linked too are all very good but are actually made in html not played in html, scratch is made in smalltalk (squeak) and is played on a java application made specifically for scratch projects. Currently a html player has not been made.
They've gotten Java and Flash to decode Scratch projects. why shouldn't they be able to get HTML to decode it?

HTML is very limited and is only (really) meant for webpages not games. So I'm not sure how easy it will be to get JS to do it... hmm

ScratchReallyROCKS · 2010-09-19 14:27:31

Daffy22 wrote:
ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:

I know we could do with format specification sort of manual. It would be hard without.

EDIT: the games you linked too are all very good but are actually made in html not played in html, scratch is made in smalltalk (squeak) and is played on a java application made specifically for scratch projects. Currently a html player has not been made.
They've gotten Java and Flash to decode Scratch projects. why shouldn't they be able to get HTML to decode it?
HTML is very limited and is only (really) meant for webpages not games. So I'm not sure how easy it will be to get JS to do it...

HTML5.......

Daffy22 · 2010-09-19 14:46:16

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:
ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

They've gotten Java and Flash to decode Scratch projects. why shouldn't they be able to get HTML to decode it?
HTML is very limited and is only (really) meant for webpages not games. So I'm not sure how easy it will be to get JS to do it...
HTML5.......

Yeah, I know but It's not meant to make a encrypted file player (not really even games) just to do slightly more advanced stuff. wink

S65 · 2010-09-19 14:54:10

Daffy22 wrote:
EDIT: the games you linked too are all very good but are actually made in html not played in html, scratch is made in smalltalk (squeak) and is played on a java application made specifically for scratch projects. Currently a html player has not been made.

The emulator I linked to was made completely in JavaScript - it simulates all the functions of a real NES, in JavaScript (and a bit of HTML).

So if that can be done, I'm sure the much less intensive task of making a Scratch editor could also be accomplished.

Either way I'd personally rather see a textual editor (more similar to a traditional programming language) for Scratch than yet another visual one - visual programming is cool and intuitive, sure, but it's also really slow, at least on this version of Scratch (dunno about 2.0), with large scripts.

johnnydean1 · 2010-09-19 14:55:17

Update
If we can, can we attempt not to use HTML 5 please. Not many browsers support it.
Ill look in to the encryption for you.

ScratchReallyROCKS · 2010-09-19 14:58:15

johnnydean1 wrote:
Update
If we can, can we attempt not to use HTML 5 please. Not many browsers support it.
Ill look in to the encryption for you.

There's only 2 browsers that don't, and it's the only way you could have support for iPhones, iPods and iPads.

johnnydean1 · 2010-09-19 15:00:19

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
johnnydean1 wrote:
Update
If we can, can we attempt not to use HTML 5 please. Not many browsers support it.
Ill look in to the encryption for you.
There's only 2 browsers that don't, and it's the only way you could have support for iPhones, iPods and iPads.

Read it again, I said attempt not to, so we can use it and once we have a working viewer we can convert it into non-HTML 5

As for encryption:

Scratch-UI-Panes
|
ScratchFrameMorph
|
--all--
|
writeScratchProject

Thats where its encrypted.

nXIII · 2010-09-19 15:23:04

johnnydean1 wrote:
Update
If we can, can we attempt not to use HTML 5 please. Not many browsers support it.
Ill look in to the encryption for you.

Just a note: it's not "encrypted" as such; "encoded" might be a better word choice.

Y'know, the problem is that I feel I'd do 100% of the work if I joined in this collab, so I'm considering just making it alone...

johnnydean1 · 2010-09-19 16:06:47

nXIII wrote:
johnnydean1 wrote:
Update
If we can, can we attempt not to use HTML 5 please. Not many browsers support it.
Ill look in to the encryption for you.
Just a note: it's not "encrypted" as such; "encoded" might be a better word choice.

Y'know, the problem is that I feel I'd do 100% of the work if I joined in this collab, so I'm considering just making it alone...

Granted I'm not the best on HTML but I could definatly help with bugs.
If we could get a team together then I'm sure this is possible.

nXIII · 2010-09-19 16:09:36

ThePCKid wrote:
nXIII wrote:
Daffy22 wrote:
But what you don't get is that .sb files are completely different to .html files! Imagine trying to play flash on a java applet - it just won't happen. It's the same story for scratch a .sb will not play in a .html file.
The only way it will work is if Scratch was written in HTML5 (I preffer flash though) and that would just be going of topic make a new scratch viewer not a new scratch.
Look, an sb file just has some bytes in it. So does an HTML file. So, use a temp file upload with an HTML form, and tada! You have all your bytes on the server, ready to be used by javascript. You could even do something like this:
php file: (don't yell at me for using the HTML5 script syntax)

<html><head><script type=\"text/javascript\">var fraw = <?php echo file_get_contents($_FILES["sbFile"]["tmp_name"]); ?></script></head></html>
Fixed so it would be more compatible.

You're wrong; I just said don't yell at me for using the HTML5 script syntax. HTML5 assumes that. I didn't need compatibility, I was just giving an example script. Stop trying to correct me.

johnnydean1 · 2010-09-19 16:09:43

Update
Im now looking for a team to collab this with, anyone can join providing they know:
HTML, PHP or JavaScript.
Apply on this thread.

Check the first post for updates and info.

nXIII · 2010-09-19 16:18:57

How about I just make it and then everyone else can beta test....

ThePCKid · 2010-09-19 16:19:39

nXIII wrote:
You're wrong; I just said don't yell at me for using the HTML5 script syntax. HTML5 assumes that. I didn't need compatibility, I was just giving an example script. Stop trying to correct me.

Sorry. I thought it's that you have to use the type attribute in HTML5

johnnydean1 · 2010-09-19 16:20:35

nXIII wrote:
How about I just make it and then everyone else can beta test....

If you so desire, but I ask 2 requests. Thou make thou's work open source and thou attempts to make it compatable with IE, eg. no HTML 5 (if possible)

Last edited by johnnydean1 (2010-09-19 16:22:34)

Daffy22 · 2010-09-19 16:31:46

Look, I'm willing to join your colab. I can do PHP, HTML and JS. I think a text based version of scratch would be great! big_smile So count me in to your colab!

BTW: who ever corrected NXlll did it wrong - they declared the script type javascript when it's actually PHP so it should be <? code ?> like that wink

I'm only willing to do it if there will be a small colab, not just doing tiny amounts and not getting much input.

nXIII · 2010-09-19 16:39:25

johnnydean1 wrote:
Thou make thou's work open source

Of course!

johnnydean1 wrote:
thou attempts to make it compatable with IE, eg. no HTML 5 (if possible)

Not Internet Explorer! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH IT MAKES ME LOSE MY SANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!

JK.

Well, if we want ie compatibility we might have to get rid of some blocks like rotation unless you want to do an Ajax request every frame (no, only Google can do that tongue )

Last edited by nXIII (2010-09-19 16:39:33)

Scratch

archived forums

#51 2010-09-18 14:47:22

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

Daffy22 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

#52 2010-09-18 14:55:19

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

#53 2010-09-19 12:42:25

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

Daffy22 wrote:

#54 2010-09-19 12:45:36

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

nXIII wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

#55 2010-09-19 12:49:26

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

nXIII wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

#56 2010-09-19 13:06:05

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

#57 2010-09-19 13:06:19

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

#58 2010-09-19 13:24:01

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

S65 wrote:

#59 2010-09-19 13:57:35

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

Daffy22 wrote:

S65 wrote:

#60 2010-09-19 14:13:04

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

S65 wrote:

#61 2010-09-19 14:27:31

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

Daffy22 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

#62 2010-09-19 14:46:16

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

#63 2010-09-19 14:54:10

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

Daffy22 wrote:

#64 2010-09-19 14:55:17

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

#65 2010-09-19 14:58:15

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

johnnydean1 wrote:

#66 2010-09-19 15:00:19

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

johnnydean1 wrote:

#67 2010-09-19 15:23:04

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

johnnydean1 wrote:

#68 2010-09-19 16:06:47

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

nXIII wrote:

johnnydean1 wrote:

#69 2010-09-19 16:09:36

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

ThePCKid wrote:

nXIII wrote:

Daffy22 wrote:

#70 2010-09-19 16:09:43

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

#71 2010-09-19 16:18:57

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

#72 2010-09-19 16:19:39

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

nXIII wrote:

#73 2010-09-19 16:20:35

Re: Lets make a new Scratch viewer!

nXIII wrote: