Scratch

nXIII wrote:

LS97 wrote:

^^party-ruiner!

I don't think it should be stickied. I'm just expressing my opinions.

fg123 wrote:

majormax wrote:

I second that.

I third that. 

fourth'd! 

Fifth'd 

bbbeb wrote:

TheSuccessor wrote:

LS97's Cool custom blocks in Scratch?

I personally think this one should be stickied. It explains how to make blocks and advanced tutorials.

I do not. I believe that it focuses (as Jens has said) too much on making tiny surface changes to code without really learning the language or even bothering to stop and ask, "How does this work?" To me it seems like this points new "modders" in the wrong direction for making truly neat and creative Scratch derivatives, or even just Squeak applications in general.

bbbeb wrote:

nXIII wrote:

bbbeb wrote:

I personally think this one should be stickied. It explains how to make blocks and advanced tutorials.

I do not. I believe that it focuses (as Jens has said) too much on making tiny surface changes to code without really learning the language or even bothering to stop and ask, "How does this work?" To me it seems like this points new "modders" in the wrong direction for making truly neat and creative Scratch derivatives, or even just Squeak applications in general.

...
People cant jump in and expect to change the screen size, or stuff like that. They start off in the basics, and go deeper in. Was the first thing YOU did was change the stage or make an interface change? heh?

No, but I saw some stuff about "hacking" Scratch which actually originated from MathWizz's mesh tutorial, so I mostly started out by reading the source and looking around, familiarizing myself with the Scratch Source. I did NOT, however, just look up how to do something, do all that I found, then strand myself on an island of not really knowing any Smalltalk but making some surface changes by following tutorials like this one.

bbbeb wrote:

nXIII wrote:

bbbeb wrote:

...
People cant jump in and expect to change the screen size, or stuff like that. They start off in the basics, and go deeper in. Was the first thing YOU did was change the stage or make an interface change? heh?

No, but I saw some stuff about "hacking" Scratch which actually originated from MathWizz's mesh tutorial, so I mostly started out by reading the source and looking around, familiarizing myself with the Scratch Source. I did NOT, however, just look up how to do something, do all that I found, then strand myself on an island of not really knowing any Smalltalk but making some surface changes by following tutorials like this one.

I never said a thing (resists cussing)about stranding yourself on Make-Blocks-Only Island!
I said this is a good way to find out about certain codes and their uses, so that people have a base of Smalltalk-80 to learn from, not just from ground zero. For example, I also scrolled the ScratchSource and added a morph that can link to things.
Summary of All The Stuff I Just Said
This is a good way to learn about Smalltalk without digging into everything first! You can learn from searcing and experimenting, or you can use already-present refrences to help you learn.

I guarantee Lazy people will strand themselves on that island of only-blocks. 100.1% Guaranteed.

This is a terrible way to learn Smalltalk! It doesn't even TEACH you Smalltalk! Go read a tutorial, or look at example applications, but don't go make a BLOCK!

nXIII wrote:

bbbeb wrote:

nXIII wrote:

No, but I saw some stuff about "hacking" Scratch which actually originated from MathWizz's mesh tutorial, so I mostly started out by reading the source and looking around, familiarizing myself with the Scratch Source. I did NOT, however, just look up how to do something, do all that I found, then strand myself on an island of not really knowing any Smalltalk but making some surface changes by following tutorials like this one.

I never said a thing (resists cussing)about stranding yourself on Make-Blocks-Only Island!
I said this is a good way to find out about certain codes and their uses, so that people have a base of Smalltalk-80 to learn from, not just from ground zero. For example, I also scrolled the ScratchSource and added a morph that can link to things.
Summary of All The Stuff I Just Said
This is a good way to learn about Smalltalk without digging into everything first! You can learn from searcing and experimenting, or you can use already-present refrences to help you learn.

I guarantee Lazy people will strand themselves on that island of only-blocks. 100.1% Guaranteed.

This is a terrible way to learn Smalltalk! It doesn't even TEACH you Smalltalk! Go read a tutorial, or look at example applications, but don't go make a BLOCK!

Terrible? IT explains certain codes and their functions! I didnt say that you only are supposed to view this! Combine this with other tutorials! NXIII, you seem to think that everything must be learned by searching! I understand that you wont learn ALL of Smalltalk this way! But it helps you grasp contents of things such as functions! A main part of a Smalltalk Interface in general involves the code! You can understand a lot of the other stuff, but the functions make up the base of what it does! Seriously! Why do you like to think that these are bad, because they dont teach you ALL of Smalltalk!!! Seriously!!! You cant learn everything about it at once! This is a good reference to learn about the CODE itself, not just how to make blocks! I understand the block specs don't help (they are too easy to learn, too.), but the INSTANCE coding helps you learn! Do you think that people have to learn from searching everything??? If i made a tutorial explaning the Initalizing and engine of things, would YOU be happy then?!

And you support a block library, but not block tutorials....
Seriously, sometimes you don't make sense.

Last edited by bbbeb (2010-09-15 22:46:09)

Woah folks...settle down!  Let's take into consideration that different people have different learning styles.  Some people need to read the manuals from cover to cover before they touch something new.  Other people prefer to jump right in and start tinkering right away - fearlessly making mistake after mistake.  It's just their learning styles.  I think that anything that moves a person beyond where they currently are is a good thing.  We're not talking about flying an airplane here - if a few mistakes are made, it's not the end of the world - it's just software 

bbbeb wrote:

Paddle2See wrote:

Woah folks...settle down!  Let's take into consideration that different people have different learning styles.  Some people need to read the manuals from cover to cover before they touch something new.  Other people prefer to jump right in and start tinkering right away - fearlessly making mistake after mistake.  It's just their learning styles.  I think that anything that moves a person beyond where they currently are is a good thing.  We're not talking about flying an airplane here - if a few mistakes are made, it's not the end of the world - it's just software 

I guess... Well, i still think it should be stickied. 

I was settling into the idea that a moderator postwould come up eventually and, tah-daah, Paddle2See himself comes and calms everyone down.

In a calm manner, I would just like to point out a couple things;
My forum follows, as P2S mentioned, my learning style. I actually learned Squeak (not Smalltalk) by following nXIII's List fourm thread and gradually using the source more and more.
I do, however, appreciate the other learning style followed meticuolusly by nXIII's Squeak tutorial. I absolutely love it and there's really been a tremendous effort put into it.
But this is surely not an excuse to accuse and insult my thread like you did, nXIII. It really made my anger rise. Just, don't do it again. Deal? 

Well, nXIII, you certainly didn't read 30 pages of that thread then.
I won't say more because this will start a proper war.

nXIII wrote:

LS97 wrote:

Well, nXIII, you certainly didn't read 30 pages of that thread then.
I won't say more because this will start a proper war.

Okay, so maybe someone stuck a method in here and there, but the original intent of the topic post was not that.

yes, i agree with that. but if you look at the posting date I myself didn't really know how to program. Even I consider it a bit pathetic when i look back at it NOW.

But it still helps some newbies. so nothing bad n that.

nXIII wrote:

LS97 wrote:

nXIII wrote:

Okay, so maybe someone stuck a method in here and there, but the original intent of the topic post was not that.

yes, i agree with that. but if you look at the posting date I myself didn't really know how to program. Even I consider it a bit pathetic when i look back at it NOW.

But it still helps some newbies. so nothing bad n that.

Yes, but I think there are better topics to sticky for "new advanced" ( ) users (who also don't want to read through 30 pages of posts)

I completely agre. Did I ever say that I excpilicitly wanted my topic to be stickied? (in the last month or so    )

iCode-747 wrote:

Jonathan's Mesh topic should be added. 

With the OVER 9000(!!) current mesh topics. OK.

sparks wrote:

I came on here to suggest some sort of mesh guide as since Panther was released, the most common question I have recieved from our users is "what's mesh?". As it does not come with regular Scratch, it is alien and unknown to many people. Looking at JPB's mesh tutorial suggested above it seems to me that this is exactly the mesh explaination thread I'm looking for! I highly reccomend it for ITopic-ing, and I plan to link the Panther site to it so that people get a well structured explaination of mesh and it's uses.

YOU DIDN'T LINK TO IT LINK 

But seriously, it keeps getting bumped up even when it's not ITopic'd... is it necessary? 

sparks wrote:

Two things I would suggest as improvements to the tutorial are some images or examples of simple mesh scripts and some images of how BYOB (and maybe Panther as the second most common question I get is "how do I use the mesh blocks in Panther?") use mesh.

Thanks for reading all that 

Ooh yes!!!          I'll put that in later today.