Scratch

jackrulez wrote:

Idea: Projects with hidden tags don't show up on that tag's page. BTW, love the idea! *favetags it as "great idea"*

Thanks jackrulez and forme0!

Ok, so Tag pages have a:
- "recently tagged as X" section.  (so each project that is added to a tag gets a chance of exposure and to be voted up.  It may also be useful, like you suggested, to hide projects in this list that were already voted down below a threshold, like -5... it's something worth experimenting with.  It may help prevent projects that spam tags from getting too much exposure.   Also, something that's not addressed yet: if someone else confirms a tag that has already shown here, much later, should it show here again?  Should it get multiple chances in recently tagged?  I can see that as useful but also this turning into a place to spam, without some limits.)

- and a "top tagged as X" in the last 24 hours, week, month, year, all time.
If they are voted down for that tag, or not voted up, they will never make it to top tagged, for that tag.

(It's also worth mentioning again: on the project pages, tags that are voted down below a certain threshold, like -5 are hidden, but can be revealed. Also, even if you like a tag that nobody else likes, you're still using it on your 'bookmarks/favorites' to organize that project.)

Lets keep discussing this!

As a bit of an update: I'm (slowly) working on a django version of this.  If there is anyone else interested, I would like to open the development to more experienced eyes and brains.

Last edited by JTxt (2010-06-21 11:20:11)

Great idea! I support.

I love this idea! It would make things so much simpler.

You should add Fave Tags as a suggestion at http://suggest.scratch.mit.edu/

Can you give us a link to the suggestion? I want to vote for it. 

Spend 3 on the BYOB3 suggestion! I want first class data in Scratch 2.0!

AddZero wrote:

fullmoon wrote:

But just because I tag something as "Mario" does not mean I want it thrown in my Favorites bin...or are you proposing to get rid of the Favorites list entirely?

Yes!  This would replace favorites.

This is not your "favorites" anymore, it's stuff you helped tag for the community. 
It's more like the "Love it" level of appreciation, but with a purpose: helping to categorize the project for the community.  "People that like "Mario" projects may like this."

So, you can tag with category tags, ('game', 'mario', 'popcicle')
OR if you really like it, you can also add positive value tags: ('cool', 'inspiration', 'awesome', 'challenging', 'fun', or even 'favorite'...)

So you can have an "awesome" and/or "favorite" category in your bookmarks, that you can use like your current "favorites", but with more flexibility if you want, so you can remember WHY you liked it, and why you would want to go back to it.

So yeah, our 'favorites' or 'bookmarks' will be larger, but easily sortable.  (see discussion on faceted search and delicious.com above.)... and these tag votes would help the community by keeping categories more relevant.

I'm not really liking this idea. Favorites is a lot more important to users than "stuff you helped tag for the community". I think  there should still be a separate favorites feature, and then, you can sort your favorites by tags.

on suggest.scratch.mit.edu! 
FaveTags: Tag voting = more relevant tags, a 'front page' with comments for every tag.  re-written again.  feedback, please.

Last edited by AddZero (2010-07-28 17:22:22)

AddZero wrote:

on suggest.scratch.mit.edu! 
FaveTags: Tag voting = more relevant tags, a 'front page' with comments for every tag.  re-written again.  feedback, please.

I just might be able to squeeze a vote of mine in    - but first I want to see what you reply to my other message 

BTW - *why* did you make a new account, JTxt? Just wondering :3

Lucario621 wrote:

How about though, instead, there's a new "viewed projects" section, that replaces favorites or bookmarks or whatever. All of the projects you view automatically get added to it (you can remove it though - and you can change whether it should automatically add projects to it or not). Further more, from there, you can filter it by if you favorited it (by adding the tag "favorites"), and/or by various tags  . That would combine all ultimate ideas!    Because I seriously think "viewed projects" would be more helpful than "stuff you helped tag for the community" - but that's just my opinion.

Yeah you could use favetags to track views too!   That may be useful.

First, let's backup a bit:
1. "My favorite Scratch projects ever!"
< (is fewer than)
2. "Stuff I helped tag for the community" = "Bookmarks" = "Stuff I tagged" = "What I think about projects that I viewed and were worth my time to add/confirm tags."
< (is fewer than)
3. "Everything I ever viewed in Scratch."

So currently as our bookmarks, we just have "1", our favorites listed as our bookmarks. (but with no indication as to why we liked them.)

I'm suggesting that we also have "2".  You spent the time to view the project, you have a couple more seconds, so you add or confirm tags that describe it.  This helps you to remember projects for later.  Even if it wasn't a great project, there may have been aspects that were an inspiration to you.  (Say it was a game, but you don't want to remember it as a game, but it did have a cool fire animation.  You may just tag as "fire".) 
So it depends on you. you could tag for the community, and vote all tags that are relevant, but I think people are more likely to vote on tags that are important to them, so that their "bookmarks" reflects more of what they like.


You're suggesting that we show "3" instead, or also, as our bookmarks?  (Everything I've ever seen?)
So if enabled, the first time you visit a project, you automatically add or confirm the "viewed" tag.  You can then add/vote for more tags if you want.

So everything you viewed would be publicly viewable?  Users would have less privacy, that may not be terribly important, but yes, I would want to have the users an option to disable or hide the tag from their publicly viewable bookmarks.


For the whole site's "viewed" tag page, It may be cool to see what everyone is viewing now ("3")... I'm guessing that the viewed tag would be much like "top viewed" is now: cool or interesting looking thumbnails or titles, but often disappointing content.

This is why I'm not a fan of using views as a popularity indicator. It encourages people you create sensationalist titles or thumbnails like "I QUIT!!!!!!!!!" or some cool drawing, to get attention.  Then by putting the spotlight on them, they get even more views and attention...   (But those projects would be worthy of the "I quit" or "drawing" tags, from people that like those kind of projects enough to tag them.)

Personal, I'd rather see what people thought of things after they viewed it... if they thought it was worthy of tagging at all. ("1" and "2")

Thanks again. 

Last edited by AddZero (2010-07-29 17:12:18)

AddZero wrote:

Lucario621 wrote:

How about though, instead, there's a new "viewed projects" section, that replaces favorites or bookmarks or whatever. All of the projects you view automatically get added to it (you can remove it though - and you can change whether it should automatically add projects to it or not). Further more, from there, you can filter it by if you favorited it (by adding the tag "favorites"), and/or by various tags  . That would combine all ultimate ideas!    Because I seriously think "viewed projects" would be more helpful than "stuff you helped tag for the community" - but that's just my opinion.

Yeah you could use favetags to track views too!   That may be useful.

First, let's backup a bit:
1. "My favorite Scratch projects ever!"
< (is fewer than)
2. "Stuff I helped tag for the community" = "Bookmarks" = "Stuff I tagged" = "What I think about projects that I viewed and were worth my time to add/confirm tags."
< (is fewer than)
3. "Everything I ever viewed in Scratch."

So currently as our bookmarks, we just have "1", our favorites listed as our bookmarks. (but with no indication as to why we liked them.)

I'm suggesting that we also have "2".  You spent the time to view the project, you have a couple more seconds, so you add or confirm tags that describe it.  This helps you to remember projects for later.  Even if it wasn't a great project, there may have been aspects that were an inspiration to you.  (Say it was a game, but you don't want to remember it as a game, but it did have a cool fire animation.  You may just tag as "fire".) 
So it depends on you. you could tag for the community, and vote all tags that are relevant, but I think people are more likely to vote on tags that are important to them, so that their "bookmarks" reflects more of what they like.


You're suggesting that we show "3" instead, or also, as our bookmarks?  (Everything I've ever seen?)
So if enabled, the first time you visit a project, you automatically add or confirm the "viewed" tag.  You can then add/vote for more tags if you want.

So everything you viewed would be publicly viewable?  Users would have less privacy, that may not be terribly important, but yes, I would want to have the users an option to disable or hide the tag from their publicly viewable bookmarks.


For the whole site's "viewed" tag page, It may be cool to see what everyone is viewing now ("3")... I'm guessing that the viewed tag would be much like "top viewed" is now: cool or interesting looking thumbnails or titles, but often disappointing content.

This is why I'm not a fan of using views as a popularity indicator. It encourages people you create sensationalist titles or thumbnails like "I QUIT!!!!!!!!!" or some cool drawing, to get attention.  Then by putting the spotlight on them, they get even more views and attention...   (But those projects would be worthy of the "I quit" or "drawing" tags, from people that like those kind of projects enough to tag them.)

Personal, I'd rather see what people thought of things after they viewed it... if they thought it was worthy of tagging at all. ("1" and "2")

Thanks again. 

Interesting...

I see what you mean about privacy - perhaps the user could choose whether his/her profile would show his/her viewed projects, favorited projects, and/or helped-the-community-by-tagging-the-project projects, as well as user special tags. Like a customized user page 

But I really wasn't thinking of "viewed" to be a tag - I just thought the system would plainly keep track of the projects that the user views    Not *everything* has to be tags tags tags tags tags  .

Lucario621 wrote:

Interesting...

I see what you mean about privacy - perhaps the user could choose whether his/her profile would show his/her viewed projects, favorited projects, and/or helped-the-community-by-tagging-the-project projects, as well as user special tags. Like a customized user page 

Yeah, that could work. It may take some experience to see what the best defaults are for individual bookmark pages, because it could greatly influence how people use tags... Then giving the user power to show tags they want; it's hard to predict what will happen, but those kinds of things are adjustable.  But I'd error towards simple and easy to use.

Lucario621 wrote:

But I really wasn't thinking of "viewed" to be a tag - I just thought the system would plainly keep track of the projects that the user views    Not *everything* has to be tags tags tags tags tags  .

Yeah, a special "viewed" tag might be too much... but probably wouldn't hurt, and would offer more flexibility than the simple counter we have now because they can be combined with other tags...  same with a "downloaded" tag.

I don't think "downloaded" or "viewed" should determine popularity of a project for the entire site.  (not featured on the front page, because project that get views just get more views.)  But as favetags, scratchers could track the most "viewed" and most "downloaded" projects, and filter by other tags, like "games", if they want.

I don't think it would hurt to have those tags. (and might be kinda cool) I just don't think they will prove to be as useful as some other tags, that are voted-for AFTER the projects are viewed.


{{{{off topic a bit:  Hidden tags may also be used for moderation.  There could be a moderator group tag that only the scratch team can see and use.

And also members-only group tags (as mentioned already) for curating and collaboration groups.  (replacing galleries, and those group pages can also be filtered by tag, for "game" etc...


Also "created by" could be like a tag, so you could filter tag pages by users.  and possibly have multiple creators for one project... perhaps scored by percentage of work done on a project.  (Interesting thought, not sure how practical as that might be difficult to measure.)

Oh, So favetags are like community and group voted/influenced attributes on content.  (Perhaps we can think of a better name than favetags now?)


And mentioned already, this could be used for internationalization, so a project can be in one or more language, and people that frequent that language tag page can decide if it's relevant to them. 
By also filtering tag pages with a language tag, you get just that language, a seperate mini community for that language.
"games"+"trigonometry"+"in spanish"
 
Then show translated names for tags depending on the user's set language:  So for someone that set their language to Spanish, they would see: "juegos"+"trigonometría"+"en español" 
(It may take a team of tag name translators, also tag definitions could be translated wiki style?)

Pages that include and "in [language]" tag would then mostly be used by people that language.

Then perhaps by default filter all pages by the user's set language, (but hidden by default) but allow users to remove that filter. 

Flexible multi-language site!
}}}}

Last edited by AddZero (2010-08-02 13:24:12)