Scratch

It didn't say that...    I was just assuming that there would be blocks involved. ^_^

boinoinoi wrote:

archmage wrote:

usually too hard for beginners.

This pretty much sums up what I think about the suggestion.

Barely anyone comes onto Scratch and immediately tries to code the most complex thing ever. A great approach to making a good program is to start small and continually add on blocks and change things as you learn.

Making a whole tile system would make Scratch seem like more of a sandbox for those specific type of games rather than the programming language that it is. Implementing a pre-done tile system puts bias on games of that sort.

If you really want one, make a base yourself (kind of like that platformer base I saw some months ago). After all, I thought you were like a star programmer...?

You took my quote out of context. I said that making it from nothing would be too difficult for beginners, tile systems have been used effectively in many kid friendly programming tools. I don't think you understand that this would be a simple and effective tool, perhaps because you are unfamiliar with something like this? I remember I suggested arrays but people shot me down because it sounded too hard to use but scratch eventally incorporated arrays (lists).

Scratch already does a lot for you that a true programming language wouldn't. The move, distance to, and point in direction blocks are all examples of scratch making things easy.

Yes it would make specific kinds of games easier to make but why is that such a bad thing. Some other people have suggested adding in frames which is solely good for animations and no one thought it was a bad idea.

There are a few reasons I can't/won't make a tile based game template. I have coded such a thing in flash but it was a more difficult task in scratch because of poor support for stings and the lack of multidimentional arrays complicated things. Another reason is that such a game would require 100+ tile sprites so it will be slow offline and just won't run online.

archmage wrote:

I don't have the time to make a nice mockup with modified pictures of the scratch program but I can explain how I think it will work.

There would be a option to make a tile map. It would be similar to a sprite and other sprites would be able to sense it. Instead of having an art editor for it, you would have a grid editor that lets you put whatever tiles you want into the map. The map would have most of the same abilities as a normal sprite, it can move sense, change colour and other things.

This feature is pretty much solely good for creating games, so art lovers won't get much out of it. But a tile map is a very powerful tool, and is the key feature of many game creators.

Ok... that makes sense.

I guess I support.

It's a wonderful idea, but I fear it will be too hard for younger, less experienced programmers to understand, as boinoinoi and probably many others pointed out...

Plus, you can already make something of a tile-based system; it's what many of my latest projects are based on.

boinoinoi wrote:

archmage wrote:

boinoinoi wrote:

Doot de doot de doo

You took my quote out of context.Yes I know. I said that making it from nothing would be too difficult for beginners, tile systems have been used effectively in many kid friendly programming tools made exclusively for games .And your point is that Scratch users should not be able to make better games? . I don't think you understand that this would be a simple and effective tool,I do, I just don't see how it can be put into the already existing Scratch Its a new kind of sprite, just made up of tiles. Not that complicated perhaps because you are unfamiliar with something like this?No, I actually helped someone to code one Then you can see its potential usefulness right? I remember I suggested arrays but people shot me down because it sounded too hard to use but scratch eventually incorporated arrays (lists).Personally I think lists are a simpler concept than tile support, I dunno about you c: I also think so, but making a tile map is also very easy. This can potentially be more useful to beginners than lists because you don't need to understand how anything works to simply draw a tile map.

Scratch already does a lot for you that a true programming language wouldn't. The move, distance to, and point in direction blocks are all examples of scratch making things easy.Those are blocks with simple math behind them. Tile systems would take a fair amount on MiT's behalf. No they shouldn't, game consoles from the 1980s used tile maps in most games so this is a old and simple concept (otherwise these old systems wouldn't be able to run the games). Not to mention that other MIT game creation programs already use tile maps (see stencyl)

Yes it would make specific kinds of games easier to make but why is that such a bad thing. Some other people have suggested adding in frames which is solely good for animations and no one thought it was a bad idea.And have those been incorporated in Scratch? I think not. They may be incorporated in Scratch v2, and no one has said it was a bad idea

There are a few reasons I can't/won't make a tile based game template. I have coded such a thing in flash but it is a more difficult task in scratch because of poor support for strings and the lack of multidimentional arrays complicated things Although I completely understand what you're saying, I'm not sure this could be simply integrated unless you'd care to show a VISUAL MOCKUP of what you're trying to put in here. Basically it might sound good on paper, but it might be harder to design an interface that's as simple as the original idea Done, and I think if it was implemented it would be one of the more simple features in the program. . Another reason is that such a game would require 100+ tile spritesThat's only depending on the size of the tiles... 100 tiles means the tiles are already pretty big. With fewer tiles it wouldn't be good for much.so it will be slow offline and just won't run online.That's only if you feel the need to make a single sprite for every tile, which a recent revolution in projects has shown that we don't need to.What are you talking about? Non-moving stamped tile maps have always been possible but this new idea would be useful for scrolling tile maps. A full scrolling tile map, like the one seen in the original super mario is very difficult to make a will never run in the current online player.

Response in red.

Response in blue, also sorry for the poor spelling/grammar last post. In my defense, the pc I used to write that didn't have spellcheck on 

Last edited by archmage (2010-07-22 00:17:24)

archmage wrote:

boop a doop

response in...
a day. I need to go to bed.

archmage wrote:

I drew some mock ups like you wanted and you say gibberish instead of commenting on them? I took the time to make em so I think you should take the time so check em out.

I'm tired and I can't write just wait a day and I'll post my response.

Well, this sprite would have a special property, a table vairable (multidimentional array) which would let the user edit the map while the program is running. You can have specific features like touching tile of map but the fact that you can access the map's table variable lets you do this manually. If the team wants the map to be more apprachable to newbies for simple projects they could leave out such specific blocks  such as touching tile.

Yes, this is probally more focused than the rest of the program, but its good for many things.

1. Your post is difficult to understand
2. The tile map is a new sprite type. That is it.

Last edited by archmage (2010-07-29 12:25:45)