Scratch
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#1 2010-06-15 13:03:43
- Billybob-Mario
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2008-01-05
- Posts: 500+
A Protest against Flash Scratch
Scratch shouldn't be rewritten in Flash. It was always in Squeak, and it worked out fine. It should stay the way it is. Also, what about mods? There would be no more mods, because they're in squeak. Flash won't do Scratch as well as squeak could. Shift-click r might work, but it would be in a different language. All of the mods, Slash, BYOB, Panther, Streak, ect, would all die out from the transfer.
iamback wrote:
Yes, I agree.
Squeak is a lot better. Offline Flash is terrible, and Flash has lots of security holes. In particular, you would have to have "just the right version" of Flash. Not so in Java. Bye bye, Flash!
fullmoon wrote:
The advantages of using Squeak are clear:
- It is totally open-source, which is more in accordance with the philosophy of Scratch
- It is dynamic in the same way Scratch is
- It might actually be faster (runs at a lower level of abstraction) than Flash, although I'm not sure.
PW132 wrote:
Compatibility issues: If the WHOLE of Scratch is re-programmed, old files may become out dated and have issues in a flash version.
No right click.
Flash crashes some computers.
Some kind of online Squeak VM could be used instead. (link to forums)
(more to come)
Who agrees?
Billybob-Mario
meew0
iamback
henley
PW132
TheGameMaster1231
TimeFreeze
Da_su-Ra1el
Last edited by Billybob-Mario (2010-07-14 17:21:03)
, my Scratch mod! Now with customizable color scheme!Offline
#2 2010-06-15 13:33:08
- soupoftomato
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-07-18
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
Squeak is slow. What reason do you have to say that Scratch won't run as well in Flash? You never said why, or how, and the truth is, Flash is much more powerful and faster than Squeak.
I'm glad to think that the community will always be kind and helpful, the language will always be a fun and easy way to be introduced into programming, the motto will always be: Imagine, Program, Share - Nomolos
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#4 2010-06-15 13:38:50
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I think Scratch should be run in Flash because Flash is faster, and it is widely used for many applications today. I am concerned about Mods too because mods have become a large part of Scratch. The Scratch Program is completely open source, so that means that the new application will be too. Right?
Last edited by coka (2010-06-15 13:39:08)
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#5 2010-06-15 13:46:26
- MaxtheWeirdo
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2010-03-18
- Posts: 500+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
Also, some things will work in Squeak, but not in Java. But yeah, the mods might have a problem. What about the Shift Click R stuff? Will that stay?
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#6 2010-06-15 14:25:30
- juststickman
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-05-31
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
meew0 wrote:
My internet connection = EPIC FAIL
I can't play ANY games online -> means I can't use Flash Scratch.
I AGREE.
EDIT: Feel free to use the image from my signature!
There's gonna be an offline version.
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#7 2010-06-15 14:59:13
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
juststickman wrote:
meew0 wrote:
My internet connection = EPIC FAIL
I can't play ANY games online -> means I can't use Flash Scratch.
I AGREE.
EDIT: Feel free to use the image from my signature!There's gonna be an offline version.
Cool! 
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#8 2010-06-15 16:37:10
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I think Flash is the better choice: It's faster, allows for vector graphics, and it's much more flexible. As for the mods... Well, they can continue on their own; who ever said they'd die out? Plus, Flash is WAY more common and widely programmed in than Squeak.
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#9 2010-06-15 19:58:19
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I am going to dissect this post...
Billybob-Mario wrote:
Scratch shouldn't be rewritten in Flash. It was always in Squeak, and it worked out fine.
//sure, if you call general slowness and differences in players fine
It should stay the way it is. Also, what about mods? There would be no more mods, because they're in squeak.
//They could release the source for the flash version
Flash won't do Scratch as well as squeak could. Shift-click r might work, but it would be in a different language.
//AS3 is much more understandable than squeak I think
All of the mods, Slash, BYOB, Panther, Streak, ect, would all die out from the transfer. (more to come)
//They would still exist and should be usable if they keep backwards compatibility for projects
Who agrees?
Billybob-Mario
meew0
Hi, I am Archmage coder extraordinaire. I do Scratch,pascal,java,php,html, AS2 and AS3. Leave me a message if you want coding advice. Also check out my personal website, lots of good stuff about web development, Flash, and Scratch (v1 and v2) !
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#10 2010-06-15 20:05:39
- Lucario621
- Community Moderator
- Registered: 2007-10-03
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I disagree, per archmage.
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#11 2010-06-15 20:07:33
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
Billybob-Mario has a very valid point about Shift+Click+R and related features. Since AS3 is compiled rather than interpreted (like Squeak) we would see a performance boost but it would essentially limit Scratch-hacking to people who have access to an AS3 compiler (either expensive or tedious to use)
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#12 2010-06-15 20:10:25
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
fullmoon wrote:
Billybob-Mario has a very valid point about Shift+Click+R and related features. Since AS3 is compiled rather than interpreted (like Squeak) we would see a performance boost but it would essentially limit Scratch-hacking to people who have access to an AS3 compiler (either expensive or tedious to use)
Yes, you also have a very good point. However, the Team is I think bound to releasing the Source Code. It may limit the ability to modify the program, however, those who wish can still modify the old version of Scratch.
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#13 2010-06-15 20:38:32
- scratchisthebest
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-02-08
- Posts: 500+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I think the online player should be flash (my climb project would be faster and harder) but the offline enviroment should still be squeak (I like my date/time modblock).
Maybe the scratch zip could have a offline flash project runner along with the squeak programmer
bye 1.4, we all loved you. but we all outgrew the site. 2.0 is a welcome change.
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#14 2010-06-15 20:39:01
- Lucario621
- Community Moderator
- Registered: 2007-10-03
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
You guys act like the whole point of Scratch is to hack it, create Scratch Mods, and make your own blocks - when it's not.
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#15 2010-06-15 21:18:24
- ScratchReallyROCKS
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-04-22
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
The one thing that I have to say is...FLASH HAS NO RIGHT CLICKING SUPPORT except for it's settings menu.
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#16 2010-06-15 21:50:55
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
scratchisthebest wrote:
Maybe the scratch zip could have a offline flash project runner along with the squeak programmer
That would be a ridiculous amount of work! Program Scratch twice in different programming languages?
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#17 2010-06-16 00:06:42
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
The one thing that I have to say is...FLASH HAS NO RIGHT CLICKING SUPPORT except for it's settings menu.
You are sort of correct: the Adobe AIR runtime supports right and center click support, but not plain ol' Flash Player 10, unless you use a Javascript workaround. But since you can customize the right-click menu anyway, I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. AIR, which is the desktop version of Flash, allows responding directly to right-click events. So the online version might have a system context menu, but the desktop version of Scratch 2.0 (which, I gather, everyone will still be using) will be able to use its own right-click menus.
http://www.adobe.com/livedocs/flash/9.0 … Event.html
Last edited by fullmoon (2010-06-16 00:10:34)
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#18 2010-06-16 00:10:16
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
scratchisthebest wrote:
I think the online player should be flash (my climb project would be faster and harder) but the offline enviroment should still be squeak (I like my date/time modblock).
If Scratch 2.0 doesn't have a way to read the date/time built in, I swear I will personally fly to MIT and implement it myself. Although hopefully if Scratch 2.0 is built on Flash we will either have:
- A clever API to import custom block classes at runtime AND/OR
- A Javascript interface block.
Scratch team, please see this article:
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/langre … lesSummary
Last edited by fullmoon (2010-06-16 00:11:03)
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#19 2010-06-16 00:13:29
- RobotKitty
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-07-16
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I don't see why we have both? Squeak (Old version) and Flash?
Everyone's argument is invalid. Your argument is invalid.
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#21 2010-06-16 03:21:22
- Jonathanpb
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2008-07-25
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
Isn't the Scratch program and website much more important than Scratch modifications? Don't complain about your Scratch modifications if the Scratch program will improve. 
And there will probably be Scratch modifications with 2.0.
"Human beings... must have action; and they will make it if they cannot find it.
-Charlotte Brontë
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#22 2010-06-16 03:38:12
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
Yes, I agree.
Squeak is a lot better. Offline Flash is terrible, and Flash has lots of security holes. In particular, you would have to have "just the right version" of Flash. Not so in Java. Bye bye, Flash!
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#23 2010-06-16 03:45:05
- stickmanmessage
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-07-14
- Posts: 41
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
meew0 wrote:
And I forgot to say:
- I don't have Flash and will never do
- I can't program ActionScript
- I like programming Scratch mods.
You don't need flash CS(insert number here) to use scratch...
You learned squeak for scratch, now why don't you learn AS?
And btw... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it's AS3 it's AS3.....
Anyone here play steel sentinels? Tell me ^.^0101 1001011 10111 10101 110111 10011011 10101 1011 101 11 101010 10101001 1010 001 1001 001 11 01 1010101 0101 001 0010 100101 01001001001 01001001010010 0100101010101010100010100110101010010101010010101010110010101010010110100010101010011-10010101001000101010010100101010010101001100101001 1010011010011
Too many lines ^.^
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#24 2010-06-16 08:03:21
- 16Skittles
- Scratcher
- Registered: 2009-08-26
- Posts: 1000+
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
fullmoon wrote:
scratchisthebest wrote:
I think the online player should be flash (my climb project would be faster and harder) but the offline enviroment should still be squeak (I like my date/time modblock).
If Scratch 2.0 doesn't have a way to read the date/time built in, I swear I will personally fly to MIT and implement it myself. Although hopefully if Scratch 2.0 is built on Flash we will either have:
- A clever API to import custom block classes at runtime AND/OR
- A Javascript interface block.
Scratch team, please see this article:
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/langre … lesSummary
can I fly it 
just kidding. I don't have my licence. can't get one 'till I'm 16 
either way, I definitly support the online version, for when I'm not on my home computer. wether they do that in c, squeak, flash, etc. doesn't matter to me.
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#25 2010-06-16 09:13:30
Re: A Protest against Flash Scratch
I think that they should have BOTH an online, and an offline version of Scratch. The online version, NOT meaning the online player.
Note: The following information is only what I know from my head, it may be wrong
I am fine with the online version to be Flash. You can't download a program that is imbedded into a website. (unless they have a download link etc.) So Modifications made in the online version, would be useless.
I am NOT fine with the offline player being Flash. For all of the reasons that people above have stated.
iamback wrote:
Squeak is a lot better. Offline Flash is terrible, and Flash has lots of security holes. In particular, you would have to have "just the right version" of Flash. Not so in Java.
ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:
FLASH HAS NO RIGHT CLICKING SUPPORT
meew0 wrote:
My internet connection = EPIC FAIL
I can't play ANY games online -> means I can't use Flash Scratch.
...
Lucario621 wrote:
You guys act like the whole point of Scratch is to hack it, create Scratch Mods, and make your own blocks - when it's not.
The Scratch Source Code
Although,
coolstuff wrote:
Flash is WAY more common and widely programmed in than Squeak.
I guess if it is THAT wildly programmed, then we could settle to learn it.
But, we already know squeak. And, I think that they could do what Jens did with BYOB, to make it run faster.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I agree.
Last edited by henley (2010-06-16 09:13:56)
"I've worked so hard for you and you give me nothing in return. Do you need help... Or do I?"
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