Scratch

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

johnnydean1 wrote:

*Squeak - Language Scratch is coded in

Actually, Scratch is coded in Smalltalk, Squeak is just the application to use it in, called the Virtual Machine or VM.

I think that Squeak is what's called a dialect of Smalltalk, meaning that Squeak is a framework for creating projects written in Smalltalk. For example, in Smalltalk writing "true ifTrue: [] ifFalse: []." would result in an error, because the message "ifTrue:ifFalse:" and the constant "true" are not defined. Some parts of Squeak must be written in C, because, for example, although Smalltalk can store data, it can't add two numbers.

Last edited by nXIII (2010-06-12 14:47:27)

bharvey wrote:

nXIII wrote:

although Smalltalk can store data, it can't add two numbers.

Huh?  Of course it can.  Numbers are Smalltalk objects; there are
number subclasses such as Integer; each kind of number implements methods for +, -, etc.

According to Jens, the main thing that distinguishes Squeak from any other implementation of Smalltalk is Morphic, the graphics engine that powers things like dragging Scratch blocks around.

Smalltalk itself can't add them; it uses a primitive function written in C.

bharvey wrote:

And if you look even more deeply than that, you'll find that C's ability to do arithmetic and access memory is written in machine language.

I though C was based on B...

On Topic!

bharvey wrote:

sparks wrote:

it's stupid that the first comments were about grammatical mistakes!

Are you talking about me and nXIII?  I wouldn't characterize our discussion that way; it was about something substantive.  I grant you it's off topic but it's really hard to branch a new thread, especially retroactively.  And you can't say "let's take this offline" without private messaging.  But, sure...

EDIT: @mp56:  C is a redesign of B.  But C is implemented on top of machine language.

Oh right, Ok. 

nXIII wrote:

bharvey wrote:

nXIII wrote:

although Smalltalk can store data, it can't add two numbers.

Huh?  Of course it can.  Numbers are Smalltalk objects; there are
number subclasses such as Integer; each kind of number implements methods for +, -, etc.

According to Jens, the main thing that distinguishes Squeak from any other implementation of Smalltalk is Morphic, the graphics engine that powers things like dragging Scratch blocks around.

Smalltalk itself can't add them; it uses a primitive function written in C.

Now here's an interesting fact: The C primitives in turn were written in a subset of Smalltalk called Slang, and then translated to C. In fact, the whole Squeak VM was written in itself (i.e. in Squeak/Slang) that way and then bootstrapped. Therefore Squeak - unlike other Smalltalks - is a self sustainable system.

It should be noted, btw, that the Smalltalk-to-C translator (that's right, not the other way 'round!) was written by John Maloney, one of the world's coolest programmers, who now is the lead developer of Scratch.

So, on topic: You can code your block or some functions of it in Slang, translate it to C within Squeak/Scratch/Panther, compile it externally into a DLL and then access it from within the image. That's how all the VM plugins for Scratch are made (mpeg, unicode, OS-access etc.).

Last edited by Jens (2010-06-15 07:10:11)

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

johnnydean1 wrote:

*Squeak - Language Scratch is coded in

Actually, Scratch is coded in Smalltalk, Squeak is just the application to use it in, called the Virtual Machine or VM.

So, Scratch was made in Squeak, which was made in Smalltalk, Which was made in....

Jens wrote:

nXIII wrote:

bharvey wrote:

Huh?  Of course it can.  Numbers are Smalltalk objects; there are
number subclasses such as Integer; each kind of number implements methods for +, -, etc.

According to Jens, the main thing that distinguishes Squeak from any other implementation of Smalltalk is Morphic, the graphics engine that powers things like dragging Scratch blocks around.

Smalltalk itself can't add them; it uses a primitive function written in C.

Now here's an interesting fact: The C primitives in turn were written in a subset of Smalltalk called Slang, and then translated to C. In fact, the whole Squeak VM was written in itself (i.e. in Squeak/Slang) that way and then bootstrapped. Therefore Squeak - unlike other Smalltalks - is a self sustainable system.

It should be noted, btw, that the Smalltalk-to-C translator (that's right, not the other way 'round!) was written by John Maloney, one of the world's coolest programmers, who now is the lead developer of Scratch.

So, on topic: You can code your block or some functions of it in Slang, translate it to C within Squeak/Scratch/Panther, compile it externally into a DLL and then access it from within the image. That's how all the VM plugins for Scratch are made (mpeg, unicode, OS-access etc.).

SMAlltalke TO C? Awesome? perhaps?

henley wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

johnnydean1 wrote:

*Squeak - Language Scratch is coded in

Actually, Scratch is coded in Smalltalk, Squeak is just the application to use it in, called the Virtual Machine or VM.

So, Scratch was made in Squeak, which was made in Smalltalk, Which was made in....

C?