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#526 2010-05-22 09:33:01

Sperry
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-03-09
Posts: 500+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Lucario621 wrote:

Jakey22 wrote:

With the pause button, their should be a pause block and a resume block.

Good idea!  smile

But the thing is when it is paused, how does it know when to resume?


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#527 2010-05-22 09:40:25

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Tonight's cute little project:
http://byob.berkeley.edu/tree.gif
A fractal tree drawing program that lets you enter branches with the mouse (dragging away from any point on the trunk) and then draws the fractal to whatever depth you choose.

This works a lot better in Turbo Mode.


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#528 2010-05-22 11:39:44

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jakey22 wrote:

With the pause button, their should be a pause block and a resume block.

There sort of is a pause block: DEBUG.It does other things, too, but it does everything you'd want from PAUSE.  As for resume, as sperry says, it would never be run -- unless we let certain scripts be exempt from pausing, which would be cool but complicated.

PAUSE is a young feature and it has warts, e.g., you can't pause a sound in the middle.  Doing so would be technically a little difficult but not impossible, and maybe Jens will get around to it -- but on the other hand there are a whole pile of urgent problems before August.


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#529 2010-05-22 12:37:31

markyparky56
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-03-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Jakey22 wrote:

With the pause button, their should be a pause block and a resume block.

There sort of is a pause block: DEBUG.It does other things, too, but it does everything you'd want from PAUSE.  As for resume, as sperry says, it would never be run -- unless we let certain scripts be exempt from pausing, which would be cool but complicated.

PAUSE is a young feature and it has warts, e.g., you can't pause a sound in the middle.  Doing so would be technically a little difficult but not impossible, and maybe Jens will get around to it -- but on the other hand there are a whole pile of urgent problems before August.

Sometimes you don't want the sound to stop. Is there a pause block? *hint hint*


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#530 2010-05-22 16:31:14

nXIII
Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-04-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Lucario621 wrote:

Jakey22 wrote:

With the pause button, their should be a pause block and a resume block.

Good idea!  smile

But you can't run a resume block if scripts are paused....


nXIII

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#531 2010-05-22 16:50:14

illusionist
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-07-02
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

Lucario621 wrote:

Jakey22 wrote:

With the pause button, their should be a pause block and a resume block.

Good idea!  smile

But you can't run a resume block if scripts are paused....

True... I'm stumped.  hmm


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#532 2010-05-23 07:10:05

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

We could have a "pause all but me" block and another one named "resume all". But, of course, what we really want is first class threads, don't we?  smile
But I really don't want to add more blocks (that's Panther territory  big_smile ). Oops, I'm on vacation anyway, no internetz...


Jens Mönig

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#533 2010-05-23 12:15:50

Blade-Edge
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-06-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Where can I download BYOB3? Or whatever the latest version is


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#534 2010-05-23 12:18:46

markyparky56
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-03-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Blade-Edge wrote:

Where can I download BYOB3? Or whatever the latest version is

http://byob.berkeley.edu/ There. Download the bleeding-edge, that'll be the latest version.


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#535 2010-05-23 13:57:48

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

We could have a "pause all but me" block and another one named "resume all". But, of course, what we really want is first class threads, don't we?  smile

Well, maybe, but before that we want mutexes.  Your "pause all but me" reminded me, because users could use that to implement a mutex, but it'd probably be less overhead to make them a primitive data type.

SET <foo> TO [MUTEX]
ACQUIRE <foo>
RELEASE <foo>

or to minimize blocks, change the last two to

CALL <foo> WITH INPUTS <acquire>
CALL <foo> WITH INPUTS <release>

Of course as SICP 3.4.2 explains, if we provide a reporter

TEST AND SET <foo> TO <new-value>

that atomically sets foo and reports the old value, then users can implement mutexes themselves.

Providing mutexes one way or another would really help in our course, because we have parallelism as a big push throughout our curriculum, and with this we could introduce both the problem (which we do already in Scratch) and the solution in CS 10.


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#536 2010-05-23 15:01:38

Jakey22
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-12-28
Posts: 72

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

I was thinking of a [pause until <>] block.


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#537 2010-05-23 16:17:43

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jakey22 wrote:

I was thinking of a [pause until <>] block.

Oh. Yeah, that would work for externally generated events, like KEY <foo> PRESSED.  Not so well for program events like I RECEIVE <foo>!  smile


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#538 2010-05-23 17:13:49

Greatdane
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the talk yesterday, I really enjoyed it.
Earlier today I had made some projects and looked at tutorials, I made a simple tree-generating program.
I made "for i in range()" blocks, a "map" block, and others for practice.
I don't know if it is a bug, but in the first block editor input(when you select a pallet and a block type) when you select a Control block and then select Sensing and then switch to another type, the block type quickly flashes the color of Control.
I'd also consider having lists inside of blocks, for some added convenience.
Like right next to "Make a Variable" there would be "make a list", because with the block that I am doing I need to add to a list and report that list.

Hope you consider my suggestions.


The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
        ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

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#539 2010-05-23 17:46:08

nXIII
Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-04-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Greatdane wrote:

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the talk yesterday, I really enjoyed it.
Earlier today I had made some projects and looked at tutorials, I made a simple tree-generating program.
I made "for i in range()" blocks, a "map" block, and others for practice.
I don't know if it is a bug, but in the first block editor input(when you select a pallet and a block type) when you select a Control block and then select Sensing and then switch to another type, the block type quickly flashes the color of Control.
I'd also consider having lists inside of blocks, for some added convenience.
Like right next to "Make a Variable" there would be "make a list", because with the block that I am doing I need to add to a list and report that list.

Hope you consider my suggestions.

Use a block variable and set it to 'list >' for an empty list; the 'make a list' UI piece is there only for Scratch project support.


nXIII

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#540 2010-05-23 18:14:41

Greatdane
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

Greatdane wrote:

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the talk yesterday, I really enjoyed it.
Earlier today I had made some projects and looked at tutorials, I made a simple tree-generating program.
I made "for i in range()" blocks, a "map" block, and others for practice.
I don't know if it is a bug, but in the first block editor input(when you select a pallet and a block type) when you select a Control block and then select Sensing and then switch to another type, the block type quickly flashes the color of Control.
I'd also consider having lists inside of blocks, for some added convenience.
Like right next to "Make a Variable" there would be "make a list", because with the block that I am doing I need to add to a list and report that list.

Hope you consider my suggestions.

Use a block variable and set it to 'list >' for an empty list; the 'make a list' UI piece is there only for Scratch project support.

So how do you add to that list?

I don't see a way to do that.


The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
        ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

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#541 2010-05-23 18:33:09

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Greatdane wrote:

So how do you add to that list?

You just drag the orange variable blob onto the list pulldown in ADD <foo> TO <list>.

It was great meeting you, too!

PS I mentioned your problem about finding other local Scratchers to a friend of mine, who suggested starting a "Silicon Valley Scratchers" forum topic, or Facebook page, or whatever your parents are confortable with.


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#542 2010-05-24 03:31:50

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Greatdane wrote:

I don't know if it is a bug, but in the first block editor input(when you select a pallet and a block type) when you select a Control block and then select Sensing and then switch to another type, the block type quickly flashes the color of Control.

Interesting.  I tried a bunch of times and managed to reproduce this once.  Can you reproduce it reliably?  If so, please be more specific about the exact sequence of events.  (Although, to be honest, this one is going to be pretty low on the priority list; it doesn't seem to hurt anything.)


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#543 2010-05-24 03:51:49

meew0
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

I found a bug in BYOB 2.99.013:

If I make a block with only a space in it, then comes a collection error and I can't access the variables category anymore.  sad


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#544 2010-05-24 09:18:51

Greatdane
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Greatdane wrote:

...

Interesting.  I tried a bunch of times and managed to reproduce this once.  Can you reproduce it reliably?  If so, please be more specific about the exact sequence of events.  (Although, to be honest, this one is going to be pretty low on the priority list; it doesn't seem to hurt anything.)

There isn't really a sequence, you can do the same thing with the lists and motion category, etc.

Maybe it's because my computer is lagging. It's just a little visual bug. Nothing really big.

bharvey wrote:

You just drag the orange variable blob onto the list pulldown in ADD <foo> TO <list>.

It was great meeting you, too!

PS I mentioned your problem about finding other local Scratchers to a friend of mine, who suggested starting a "Silicon Valley Scratchers" forum topic, or Facebook page, or whatever your parents are comfortable with.

A Silicon Valley Scratchers forum topic would be a great idea! However, it goes against the rules of giving out personal information. I think that state is the maximum detail you can give away. A facebook page is not an option, you have to be 13 and over to be in Facebook.

Maybe a website with forums and such, linking it to here?


The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
        ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

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#545 2010-05-24 09:56:32

xly
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-04-17
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

@BHarvey & Greatdane

Please find at the following address my efforts to explore the capabilities of ScratchByop :

http://www.xleroy.net/ScratchByobTutorial/Thumbnails.html

If it can help.
Next subject : draw one 3d Shuttle !

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#546 2010-05-24 09:59:25

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

meew0 wrote:

I found a bug in BYOB 2.99.013:

If I make a block with only a space in it, then comes a collection error and I can't access the variables category anymore.  sad

Yup.  Thanks!


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#547 2010-05-24 10:03:44

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

xly wrote:

http://www.xleroy.net/ScratchByobTutorial

Wow, you've been busy!  Thanks.

P.S. We're not allowed to call it "Scratch"; they don't want people confused when your projects won't run in regular Scratch, which makes sense.


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#548 2010-05-24 10:55:45

MathWizz
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-31
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

I found a bug! Make a block with a " - " in it.


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#549 2010-05-24 11:24:03

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

MathWizz wrote:

I found a bug! Make a block with a " - " in it.

I see, there are a bunch of bugs in the parsing of block names!  Maybe we should just make it a pulldown where you can choose from among 50 popular block names.  smile


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#550 2010-05-24 11:25:21

MathWizz
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-31
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

MathWizz wrote:

I found a bug! Make a block with a " - " in it.

I see, there are a bunch of bugs in the parsing of block names!  Maybe we should just make it a pulldown where you can choose from among 50 popular block names.  smile

Are you kidding about that?


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