Scratch

Musicstar888 · 2010-05-03 20:13:30

I'm just wondering how this art vs. programming thing started. If we know what started it, we may find a solution... can someone tell me how it all began?
Oh yeah, I have no part in the art and programming department.

I'm not getting worked up.

cool I'm staying relaxed.

OK, I lied in those last 2 lines. I'm a bit angry at how some people are criticizing the art/programming and all I want is for it to stop. All I see now are threads that are about this argument. I might be exaggerating, hmm we can comprimise, people! Art and programming are both great!

Art helps you express yourself and have fun with it at the same time.

Programming helps you learn and is great entertainment for others.

I know! We can comprimise by saying we can do art games! Thats programming and art all blended together. Anyway, I hope everyone can be happy in the end... smile THINK HAPPY! wink big_smile tongue NOT sad

shamrocker · 2010-05-03 20:14:51

See my topic, "'Why is the war within scratch happening?' Answer" to find out.

steppenwulf · 2010-05-03 20:17:05

This is probably flamebait...

Musicstar888 · 2010-05-03 20:18:40

If it is, a mod can close it, but I don't think so. All I ask is peace. Is that too much to ask?

somelia · 2010-05-03 20:30:56

LISTEN TO PADDLE'S SIG!
AWAY WITH THE BLOODY WAR!
PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
PEACE FOR THE SCRATCH WEBSITE!
FORGET THE INCIDENT!
FORGIVE AND FORGET!
WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

Ah, sorry. My way of saying: Of course, Musicstar888.

Musicstar888 · 2010-05-04 07:24:13

Paddle's sig does a lot. (I mean, in this.) It has the perfect message in these times. Everyone should know to treat others as you'd like to be treated. Its a fact of life. But hey, what somelia said! smile

Lord-Sprites · 2010-05-04 07:26:49

Maybe you should post his sig because I can't see it and I'm not in the mood to go post searching.

Paddle2See · 2010-05-04 09:50:03

The sig is right here smile

As I see it, this conflict came about mainly as a struggle for popularity, specifically a struggle for the Front Page slots. At one time, a certain genre of Scratch project was very popular and had most of the Front Page slots. As more people discovered Scratch, the type of project that was most popular changed and these new types of project started to take over more of the Front Page. So fans of the first genre of Scratch project, that is no longer so much in favor, are not very happy.

Recently that discontent spilled out into the forums in a big way...to the extent that the forums felt very hostile. It's very important that Scratch be welcoming and supportive of ALL segments of the community. We are not going to exclude any genres of Scratch Project and we have little control over what is currently popular. So where does that leave us? We need to find ways to get along with one another.

There are a number of ideas floating around on how to solve this issue. Most of them revolve around the idea of filtering the Front Page in some fashion so that users only see the projects they are interested in. Other suggestions are always appreciated...as long as they start from the foundation that no projects are more worthy than others.

However, any solutions that require extensive coding changes are likely to take a long time. They may not even happen until Scratch 2.0 is rolled out. So we need to be creative and patient.

Change is always a challenge. You can rail against it with great emotion and strength but that may not have any impact at all, if the forces are out of your control. Or, you can take a look at the new environment and think "How can I make this work for me? Maybe I can use the new environment to my advantage!" Change is also opportunity smile

coolstuff · 2010-05-04 10:09:13

Leave it up to Paddle2See to make something good out of this situation smile I wish I could be as optimistic as him.

Change is an opportunity. That's going into my signature.

Last edited by coolstuff (2010-05-04 10:09:47)

Lightnin · 2010-05-04 11:06:37

Well spoken, Paddle2See!

I agree that much of the motivation seems to be about those few precious front page slots. The current design tends to make the largest sub-community dominate the FP. At one point that was Gamers, now it seems to have moved over to artists (although it's worth remembering that we still do get a decent mix a lot of the time). Gamers would like to take back the front page - but all that would succeed in doing would be to make one side dominant over the other for a while --not a good solution in the long run.

Some might be interested to know that this is a very old problem with communities.. like Ancient Greece old. So it's not unique to Scratch. wink

Check this page out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Musicstar888 · 2010-05-04 15:34:35

Paddle2See wrote:
The sig is right here

As I see it, this conflict came about mainly as a struggle for popularity, specifically a struggle for the Front Page slots. At one time, a certain genre of Scratch project was very popular and had most of the Front Page slots. As more people discovered Scratch, the type of project that was most popular changed and these new types of project started to take over more of the Front Page. So fans of the first genre of Scratch project, that is no longer so much in favor, are not very happy.

Recently that discontent spilled out into the forums in a big way...to the extent that the forums felt very hostile. It's very important that Scratch be welcoming and supportive of ALL segments of the community. We are not going to exclude any genres of Scratch Project and we have little control over what is currently popular. So where does that leave us? We need to find ways to get along with one another.

There are a number of ideas floating around on how to solve this issue. Most of them revolve around the idea of filtering the Front Page in some fashion so that users only see the projects they are interested in. Other suggestions are always appreciated...as long as they start from the foundation that no projects are more worthy than others.

However, any solutions that require extensive coding changes are likely to take a long time. They may not even happen until Scratch 2.0 is rolled out. So we need to be creative and patient.

Change is always a challenge. You can rail against it with great emotion and strength but that may not have any impact at all, if the forces are out of your control. Or, you can take a look at the new environment and think "How can I make this work for me? Maybe I can use the new environment to my advantage!" Change is also opportunity

Maybe I can make something that says positive stuff like what you said. Some people think EVERYTHING has something good in it. I'm one of those people, optimistic and bright. If we make Scratchers see that way, maybe we can come to a solution.

DavidTy · 2010-05-04 18:41:11

Oh, it's been going for almost 2 years now, I really don't see what the big deal is though, I mean there are always going to be Art projects and there are always going to be more complexe programmes and I really don't see a promlem with that. I duno...

gettysburg11 · 2010-05-04 18:51:27

Paddle pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Back in 2008, the front page was pretty much all games, which people liked. As more people joined, they brought different styles, and art was introduced to Scratch. The people from before who loved games thought that the art was stupid and took barely any skill, then the art people fired back, and it's been going back and forth up to today.

Musicstar888 · 2010-05-04 19:59:59

DavidTy wrote:
Oh, it's been going for almost 2 years now, I really don't see what the big deal is though, I mean there are always going to be Art projects and there are always going to be more complexe programmes and I really don't see a promlem with that. I duno...

Yeah, but before I didn't notice. Now it is DEFINENTLY noticeable. yikes

Paddle2See · 2010-05-05 04:02:35

Musicstar888 wrote:
Maybe I can make something that says positive stuff like what you said. Some people think EVERYTHING has something good in it. I'm one of those people, optimistic and bright. If we make Scratchers see that way, maybe we can come to a solution.

I think this is a very important point!

We might see a project that we really don't like, at first glance. But if we step back and try to look at it from the point of view of the author, we can maybe learn something:

What were they hoping to accomplish with the project?

Why did they make it?

When we switch viewpoints like that, sometimes we get a better understanding of the project and the author. Maybe then we can come up with a useful comment that will make them feel good and hopefully help them grow in some way.

Jtheomnipotent · 2010-05-05 07:15:56

coolstuff wrote:
Leave it up to Paddle2See to make something good out of this situation I wish I could be as optimistic as him.

Change is an opportunity. That's going into my signature.

Same here.

DavidTy · 2010-05-05 08:07:53

Musicstar888 wrote:
DavidTy wrote:
Oh, it's been going for almost 2 years now, I really don't see what the big deal is though, I mean there are always going to be Art projects and there are always going to be more complexe programmes and I really don't see a promlem with that. I duno...
Yeah, but before I didn't notice. Now it is DEFINENTLY noticeable.

Oh it was very noticeable when it began but after a couple of months it kind of cooled of, now for some reason it has been revived. Just a trouble maker if you ask me tongue

BWOG · 2010-05-05 08:51:03

Reason? Because the programmers (Like me) have gotten tired of all this art on the front page of a programming site, and most of the art doesn't do anything.

I wish we had a rant forum tongue

Last edited by BWOG (2010-05-05 08:51:23)

Stickman704 · 2010-05-05 14:49:56

somelia wrote:
LISTEN TO PADDLE'S SIG!
AWAY WITH THE BLOODY WAR!
PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
PEACE FOR THE SCRATCH WEBSITE!
FORGET THE INCIDENT!
FORGIVE AND FORGET!
WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

Ah, sorry. My way of saying: Of course, Musicstar888.

I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?

Oh dear. We argued about art vs games and now we are arguing about how it happened. Strange.

Lord-Sprites · 2010-05-05 15:31:32

Stickman704 wrote:
somelia wrote:
LISTEN TO PADDLE'S SIG!
AWAY WITH THE BLOODY WAR!
PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
PEACE FOR THE SCRATCH WEBSITE!
FORGET THE INCIDENT!
FORGIVE AND FORGET!
WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

Ah, sorry. My way of saying: Of course, Musicstar888.
I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?

You mean bloody? I wouldn't count that as a swear

Stickman704 · 2010-05-05 15:32:34

Lord-Sprites wrote:
Stickman704 wrote:
somelia wrote:
LISTEN TO PADDLE'S SIG!
AWAY WITH THE BLOODY WAR!
PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
PEACE FOR THE SCRATCH WEBSITE!
FORGET THE INCIDENT!
FORGIVE AND FORGET!
WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

Ah, sorry. My way of saying: Of course, Musicstar888.
I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?
You mean bloody? I wouldn't count that as a swear

Yeah but some people would find it offensive.

B2t?

Musicstar888 · 2010-05-05 15:56:57

Lord-Sprites wrote:
Stickman704 wrote:
somelia wrote:
LISTEN TO PADDLE'S SIG!
AWAY WITH THE BLOODY WAR!
PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
PEACE FOR THE SCRATCH WEBSITE!
FORGET THE INCIDENT!
FORGIVE AND FORGET!
WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

Ah, sorry. My way of saying: Of course, Musicstar888.
I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?
You mean bloody? I wouldn't count that as a swear

If you're english, its a really bad swear. yikes

littletonkslover · 2010-05-05 15:58:22

Musicstar888 wrote:
Lord-Sprites wrote:
Stickman704 wrote:

I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?
You mean bloody? I wouldn't count that as a swear
If you're english, its a really bad swear.

Somewhat.........

gettysburg11 · 2010-05-06 16:34:29

Musicstar888 wrote:
Lord-Sprites wrote:
Stickman704 wrote:

I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?
You mean bloody? I wouldn't count that as a swear
If you're english, its a really bad swear.

It might literally mean bloody as in bleeding out the red stuff in your body, since that's often connected with war.

somelia · 2010-05-06 20:40:48

Stickman704 wrote:
somelia wrote:
LISTEN TO PADDLE'S SIG!
AWAY WITH THE BLOODY WAR!
PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
PEACE FOR THE SCRATCH WEBSITE!
FORGET THE INCIDENT!
FORGIVE AND FORGET!
WE CAN ALL BE FRIENDS!

Ah, sorry. My way of saying: Of course, Musicstar888.
I see... Maybe you would want to remove the swear word?

Oh dear. We argued about art vs games and now we are arguing about how it happened. Strange.

What swear word? "Bloody" is not a swear word, as it just meansblood-like, full of blood, ETC.

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2010-05-03 20:13:30

How did this all start?

#2 2010-05-03 20:14:51

Re: How did this all start?

#3 2010-05-03 20:17:05

Re: How did this all start?

#4 2010-05-03 20:18:40

Re: How did this all start?

#5 2010-05-03 20:30:56

Re: How did this all start?

#6 2010-05-04 07:24:13

Re: How did this all start?

#7 2010-05-04 07:26:49

Re: How did this all start?

#8 2010-05-04 09:50:03

Re: How did this all start?

#9 2010-05-04 10:09:13

Re: How did this all start?

#10 2010-05-04 11:06:37

Re: How did this all start?

#11 2010-05-04 15:34:35

Re: How did this all start?

Paddle2See wrote:

#12 2010-05-04 18:41:11

Re: How did this all start?

#13 2010-05-04 18:51:27

Re: How did this all start?

#14 2010-05-04 19:59:59

Re: How did this all start?

DavidTy wrote:

#15 2010-05-05 04:02:35

Re: How did this all start?

Musicstar888 wrote:

#16 2010-05-05 07:15:56

Re: How did this all start?

coolstuff wrote:

#17 2010-05-05 08:07:53

Re: How did this all start?

Musicstar888 wrote:

DavidTy wrote:

#18 2010-05-05 08:51:03

Re: How did this all start?

#19 2010-05-05 14:49:56

Re: How did this all start?

somelia wrote:

#20 2010-05-05 15:31:32

Re: How did this all start?

Stickman704 wrote:

somelia wrote:

#21 2010-05-05 15:32:34

Re: How did this all start?

Lord-Sprites wrote:

Stickman704 wrote:

somelia wrote:

#22 2010-05-05 15:56:57

Re: How did this all start?

Lord-Sprites wrote:

Stickman704 wrote:

somelia wrote:

#23 2010-05-05 15:58:22

Re: How did this all start?

Musicstar888 wrote:

Lord-Sprites wrote:

Stickman704 wrote:

#24 2010-05-06 16:34:29

Re: How did this all start?

Musicstar888 wrote:

Lord-Sprites wrote:

Stickman704 wrote:

#25 2010-05-06 20:40:48

Re: How did this all start?

Stickman704 wrote:

somelia wrote:

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