Scratch

shadow_7283 · 2010-05-03 17:27:24

New glitch: when creating a new block, if you set the block type and click cancel in the block editor, the block will still appear in the block area, with no option to delete it.

nXIII · 2010-05-03 17:42:58

shadow_7283 wrote:
New glitch: when creating a new block, if you set the block type and click cancel in the block editor, the block will still appear in the block area, with no option to delete it.

I can still delete it when I do that...

EDIT: I found a new glitch:

Last edited by nXIII (2010-05-03 17:46:39)

Jens · 2010-05-03 17:48:32

nXIII wrote:
While searching for a different glitch to take a picture of, I got this:
http://i40.tinypic.com/24ymuc7.png
Is that supposed to happen?

Naw, it's a bug. Thanks for finding it!

waveOSBeta · 2010-05-03 17:50:47

Jens! You're a mod again! big_smile

Jens · 2010-05-03 17:51:54

shadow_7283 wrote:
New glitch: when creating a new block, if you set the block type and click cancel in the block editor, the block will still appear in the block area, with no option to delete it.

well, in this case the block gets created, but you should still be able to delete it by right clicking on its representation in the palette and selecting "delete block definition". Please let me know if this somehow doesn't work for you. Thanks!

Jens · 2010-05-03 17:55:56

nXIII wrote:
I found a new glitch:
http://i44.tinypic.com/j0wldu.png

Haha! Yeah, that shouldn't raise an error message. Thanks, you guys are fantastic testers!

nXIII · 2010-05-03 17:59:42

LOL!

__________________

More on-topic:

This little buddy froze BYOB!

Last edited by nXIII (2010-05-03 18:02:13)

Jens · 2010-05-03 18:02:07

xly wrote:
Scratch 4 All would be a more adapted motto.

I've set on-line examples of my first steps with Byop :

http://www.xleroy.net/Byop/Thumbnails.html

Wow, thanks Xavier! Personally I love Scratch 4 All and I believe it's a wonderful motto. In fact, it's exactly what Brian told me when he outlined the plan for BYOB 3 to me: One language, without ceiling, that serves kids to college students. Thanks also for making your exploratory BYOB projects accessible!

PlayWithFire · 2010-05-03 18:21:19

is there a way to get the embed code from a byob project?

Edit: also i'm having trouble compiling a project, when i click compile it doesn't do anything.

Last edited by PlayWithFire (2010-05-03 18:22:32)

Jens · 2010-05-03 18:33:30

PlayWithFire, hmmm I'm not sure what you mean when referring to an embed code. Is it the link that embeds a Scratch project in other social media sites? If so, that's currently not supported, sorry.

Sorry the compiler doesn't seem to work for you. I'm just now in the process of updating it to some recent changes. Are you on a Mac or on a PC? Are there any apostrophes in the path leading to your BYOB folder? Thanks!

nXIII · 2010-05-03 18:35:59

I don't think anyone noticed my previous post...

nXIII wrote:
...

This little buddy froze BYOB!

Last edited by nXIII (2010-05-03 18:36:28)

Jens · 2010-05-03 18:55:59

nXIII wrote:
I don't think anyone noticed my previous post...
nXIII wrote:
...
http://i41.tinypic.com/2hi1qox.jpg
This little buddy froze BYOB!

Lol, cute!
Weeeeelll, you know, you're supposed to RUN command blocks, not CALL them. smile

If you instead code

CALL (THE SCRIPT (RUN ( ) ) ) WITH INPUTS (THE SCRIPT (SAY <hi!> ) )

or so, it works fine without freezing. Still, I wonder why it hangs the other way...

Lucario621 · 2010-05-03 19:07:43

Lucario621 wrote:
Jens - back to my chord block idea on the third page of this thread (assuming you have the default amount of posts per page)

What type of input types should the different inputs be? They could be any, or possibly text, I really don't know.

The above part was already solved - so don't worry about that.

Secondly (and more importantly), I can I have the script play the multiple notes at the same time? Perhaps, if it is possible, could the block broadcast messages just to other scripts within the block definition? That might work - if you have that implemented.

Lucario621 wrote:
Is it possible to remove a variable from a block definition? Because I'm not able to...

Lucario621 wrote:
I decided to change the note and octave to just note (as in midi note). What is the range of midi notes on Scratch, for an actual keyboard? I think it's 21 (the lowest A) to 108 (the highest C) - but I might be wrong (I mean, doesn't that make 87 keys lol?).

I don't think these posts were replied to tongue

Last edited by Lucario621 (2010-05-03 19:07:57)

shadow_7283 · 2010-05-03 19:21:14

Err... nevermind about my "glitch" report. I just realized that when you click OK you had already techniqually created the block, it just didn't have a definition. *Hides under laptop screen*

Also nevermind about the right-click stuff. I had just messed with my mouse settings, and it must have changed something.

PlayWithFire · 2010-05-03 20:02:35

Jens wrote:
PlayWithFire, hmmm I'm not sure what you mean when referring to an embed code. Is it the link that embeds a Scratch project in other social media sites? If so, that's currently not supported, sorry.

Sorry the compiler doesn't seem to work for you. I'm just now in the process of updating it to some recent changes. Are you on a Mac or on a PC? Are there any apostrophes in the path leading to your BYOB folder? Thanks!

about the embed code, yes thats what i meant. that would be a cool addition for future versions.

for the compiler: i'm on a PC. and i'm not sure what you mean by apostrophes.

nXIII · 2010-05-03 20:18:29

My awesome block maker idea:
The 'default value' slot in the long input name slot should be a block argument of the selected type. That way, you can type a number in the 'number' type, a string in the 'string' type, etc., but you can also put blocks in these default values, as well as being able to put reporter blocks in the 'reporter' type and commands in the 'command' type. A mockup:

(full size)
You should also be able to give a default value for inputs that are a list. You click the left arrow, and the new input has the default value given in the block editor.

Last edited by nXIII (2010-05-03 21:24:21)

bharvey · 2010-05-04 00:33:57

xly wrote:
Your first idea of a Scratch4cs seems too restrictive.

Thanks for the many kind words!

About scratch4cs, the movie got that title when I first made it just for the Scratch Team. "Scratch4cs" was a proposal they wrote to develop a separate version for CS classes. The point of the movie was that that wasn't necessary, that CS students could use the same Scratch as everyone else if it just had a few things added. So we're in agreement here. I guess when I put the movie on the net I should have retitled it.

bharvey · 2010-05-04 00:37:31

nXIII wrote:
While searching for a different glitch to take a picture of, I got this:
http://i40.tinypic.com/24ymuc7.png
Is that supposed to happen?

Hah! Thanks for helping me win an argument with Jens. smile He thinks that THE SCRIPT [REPORT FOO]
and THE [FOO] BLOCK are equivalent, and one can be displayed as if it were the other.

bharvey · 2010-05-04 00:40:40

nXIII wrote:
I don't think anyone noticed my previous post...

Sorry, n, I spent all day in a place with no internet and no cell phone reception. sad But I did get a lot done on the BYOB paper for the Eurologo / Constructionism conference in Paris this summer. smile

bharvey · 2010-05-04 00:48:11

shadow_7283 wrote:
Well bug testing some programs and blocks, I realized that we REALLY need a display for variables in blocks and variables created using the script variables (a) -> block.

It is so difficult to find errors in a program when the value variables equal is hidden.
Can this be fixed in future versions?

Yes, absolutely. Jens and I are agreed that debugging support is our #1 priority between now and August.

I don't think you want onstage displays for debugging purposes, though; you want some more compact window format. Better yet, you want active variables, that tell you when someone changes their value! There are lots of good debugging ideas out there; we're going to have to work out what fits best with a visual programming language.

You also want something more than "Error" when there's an error! Prior to Scratch the last time I had to suffer with that sort of minimalist error message was around 1980. I can see the reason for it - for kids, you also don't want the opposite extreme in which 4 different windows full of debugging information suddenly pop up. We may end up with a "debug mode" in which you get more verbose messages, or something.

The fact that Scratch is multithreaded makes it extra hard; the thing that errors might be in a sprite other than the one whose scripts you have visible on your screen. So, do we forcefully switch you to the sprite that had the error, do we pop up a window with buttons you can use to say whether or not to switch, etc. Doing things to the user's point of view by force is generally frowned on in UI circles, but program debugging might be a special case.

Anyway, this is what we're going to be talking about for the next month or so.

bharvey · 2010-05-04 00:53:13

shadow_7283 wrote:
Err... nevermind about my "glitch" report. I just realized that when you click OK you had already techniqually created the block, it just didn't have a definition. *Hides under laptop screen*

I wish it didn't do that. I keep getting in trouble because I forget to click Reporter or Predicate in the initial Make a Block dialog, and as soon as I see the shape of the prototype in the Block Editor I realize my mistake, but there's no way to correct that except to click OK or Cancel (doesn't matter which!) and then delete the block and start over.

But it has to do that, so you can write recursive procedures. You need to be able to drag the block into its own definition, even before you finish defining it.

I don't know about you, but I'd be happier if I could change the block shape from inside the Block Editor, the way you can already change the color (a mistake I hardly ever make, sigh).

bharvey · 2010-05-04 00:59:31

nXIII wrote:
My awesome block maker idea:
The 'default value' slot in the long input name slot should be a block argument of the selected type.

Yeah, I want this too. I also want to be able to put explicit arrows in the prototype, so certain inputs would by default not be seen at all, and you'd get the default value without bothering the user, who could still change it by clicking the right arrow.

I don't want these things enough to hold up 3.0 for them, but they should definitely be on the future-release list.

bharvey · 2010-05-04 01:05:07

Hey, gang, 2.99.005 is on the web site, in the "bleeding edge" link. Fixes some of your reported bugs. Also, you should know, it uses extension .ypr for project files and .ysp for sprite files. It still reads the old extensions too, but always writes the new ones. This shouldn't be a problem now that you know about it. smile The reason is that it makes it much easier to have Scratch and BYOB both installed on your computer and have the right program start when you double-click a file.

P.S. Is there a URL I can bookmark that says "take me to the most recent post of this forum"?

bharvey · 2010-05-04 01:09:38

bharvey wrote:
I guess each SWITCH could fluid-let the global variable (I mean, save it and restore it when done).

No, it couldn't, not if you want multiple threads to be able to use your SWITCH block in parallel.

I still think your (nXIII) idea is amazingly brilliant, but it won't really replace support for variadic input groups.

PlayWithFire · 2010-05-04 02:18:13

bharvey wrote:
Hey, gang, 2.99.005 is on the web site, in the "bleeding edge" link. Fixes some of your reported bugs. Also, you should know, it uses extension .ypr for project files and .ysp for sprite files. It still reads the old extensions too, but always writes the new ones. This shouldn't be a problem now that you know about it. The reason is that it makes it much easier to have Scratch and BYOB both installed on your computer and have the right program start when you double-click a file.

P.S. Is there a URL I can bookmark that says "take me to the most recent post of this forum"?

u may be able to bookmark the [newest posts] link but I'm not 100%

Scratch

archived forums

#326 2010-05-03 17:27:24

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#327 2010-05-03 17:42:58

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#328 2010-05-03 17:48:32

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

#329 2010-05-03 17:50:47

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#330 2010-05-03 17:51:54

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#331 2010-05-03 17:55:56

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

#332 2010-05-03 17:59:42

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#333 2010-05-03 18:02:07

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

xly wrote:

#334 2010-05-03 18:21:19

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#335 2010-05-03 18:33:30

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#336 2010-05-03 18:35:59

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

#337 2010-05-03 18:55:59

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

nXIII wrote:

#338 2010-05-03 19:07:43

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Lucario621 wrote:

Lucario621 wrote:

Lucario621 wrote:

#339 2010-05-03 19:21:14

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#340 2010-05-03 20:02:35

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

#341 2010-05-03 20:18:29

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#342 2010-05-04 00:33:57

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

xly wrote:

#343 2010-05-04 00:37:31

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

#344 2010-05-04 00:40:40

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

#345 2010-05-04 00:48:11

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#346 2010-05-04 00:53:13

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#347 2010-05-04 00:59:31

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

nXIII wrote:

#348 2010-05-04 01:05:07

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#349 2010-05-04 01:09:38

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

#350 2010-05-04 02:18:13

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

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