Scratch

JSO wrote:

webgal15 wrote:

JSO wrote:

Me too and I'd like to encourage you all not to start one. This could turn into a very interesting discussion, don't ruin it by flaming please...

Interesting?

All it is...

...is flamebait...

...over a thing like PEOPLE'S INTERESTS.

No offense, but IMO this discussion is irritating, not interesting.

I really believe it is interesting to hear how artists think about the game makers after all of their - our - complaints.

And I think it's a good thing to discuss people's interests 

It would be better if it couldn't be solved simply.

DO NOT RESPOND SAYING "WE CAN'T IGNORE THEM" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YES YOU CAN.

RHY3756547 wrote:

Obviously not in one sitting, sheesh..

I may be an idiot, I'm not that stupid, bejeezus!

cocoanut wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

cocoanut wrote:

With 24 hours a day?

A good scratch game could take five to ten hours. But you don't work on it all at one time.

Obviously not. But 3 weeks, 21 days, with an average of about ~30 minutes a day (and this is no-where near the higher extremes) comes out to 620 minutes. About 10 hours. Significantly more than the drawing LTL mentioned. (And I, for some reason, doubt the are we see on the front page took two hours)

As I said, that hardly matters.

I make a point.
You disagree.
I refute your point.
"It hardly matters"
~~~~~
Anyway. I'm not trying to yell or flame (if I come off that way I assure you it is unintentional), but we are voicing valid concerns with the website that you dismiss at not mattering as soon as you are losing the argument.

cocoanut wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

Obviously not in one sitting, sheesh..

I may be an idiot, I'm not that stupid, bejeezus!

Oh right, the quantities of stupidity weren't THAT high. 
(points to sig)

webgal15 wrote:

JSO wrote:

webgal15 wrote:

Interesting?

All it is...

...is flamebait...

...over a thing like PEOPLE'S INTERESTS.

No offense, but IMO this discussion is irritating, not interesting.

I really believe it is interesting to hear how artists think about the game makers after all of their - our - complaints.

And I think it's a good thing to discuss people's interests 

It would be better if it couldn't be solved simply.

DO NOT RESPOND SAYING "WE CAN'T IGNORE THEM" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YES YOU CAN.

Caps don't get your point across, they just make you seem childish. Use bold or italics for emphasis.

As you can see, the caps hurt my eyes too much to understand, so I am going to reply saying you can't ignore it.
~~~~~~
It's like me saying "just ignore the bad comments you get". I mean sure you could, but why would you not flag them so the Scratch team will take action to clean up the site and make it a generally better place.

Did anyone miss my above post? 

Yes, there's nothing wrong with art, but if it doesn't have any programming WHATSOEVER then it should just be posted on dA or something.

And I don't want this to become a flame war, so right now I totally agree with Jonathanpb.

Last edited by banana500 (2010-04-30 19:40:38)

Jonathanpb wrote:

Animations are perfectly fine - they have programming.
Art is perfectly fine - but if an art project doesn't have any programming, it should be shared somewhere else.

I'm fine with animations, but it's annoying when the front page is either animations or art, because that isn't really the reason Scratch was made. Art with no scripts should be shared on DA, or for the younger ones, maybe their own site.

demosthenes wrote:

cocoanut wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

Obviously not. But 3 weeks, 21 days, with an average of about ~30 minutes a day (and this is no-where near the higher extremes) comes out to 620 minutes. About 10 hours. Significantly more than the drawing LTL mentioned. (And I, for some reason, doubt the are we see on the front page took two hours)

As I said, that hardly matters.

I make a point.
You disagree.
I refute your point.
"It hardly matters"
~~~~~
Anyway. I'm not trying to yell or flame (if I come off that way I assure you it is unintentional), but we are voicing valid concerns with the website that you dismiss at not mattering as soon as you are losing the argument.

I haven't lost the argument, and they're not valid concerns. You can ignore it if you want, but you just don't want to try. 

Let's take an example:

Art and games are two completely different things.

Let's compare them to some sort of drink and a computer, also two completely different things.

A beverage will obviously take not as long to make as a computer.

Does that mean all beverages are terrible?

Penguinsrock wrote:

keikij wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

I can see an arrogant RPer over the horizon, but you don't see me complaining.

I would at least like everyone to remember that this is a programming site-

STOP RIGHT THERE DON'T HIT THAT REPLY BUTTON AND SAY "But..."

and that people have a right to be angry that their on-topic work is not being appreciated on the corresponding site. Got it?

Now you can hit the reply button with lots of "but..." but I will not listen nor reply because it's just pathetic.

  Not taking your bait.

No offence RHY, but I don't like you - Sure you make great games, but I'm not liking that attitude. I know that
[blocks]<next costume>[/block]
and
[blocks]<play sound][/block]
stuff, is little programming - But it is PROGRAMMING AT ALL.
Again - Not to be mean to anybody, but have you noticed [b]the 'art/animation' side hasn't really been insulting/being kind of rude, and is defending. The 'game etc' side, is being ruder, in a way to defend. This is my feeling on it anyway.

The attitude is now with all game makers, basically irradiating from the front page art pieces. Think about it from a programmer's point of view (the site and application's target audience, folks) and not someone who draws cats to get praise form 11 year olds.

Some of us might want to go on to develop commercial applications and games, and we can't do that without feedback and help from each other and better programmers. Art in the middle of this does not help matters.

I hate the 2 block programming excuse. You use two blocks. Oh, wowie. What a project.

Utter. Rubbish.

Think of it from the programmer's side of view. Unable to get noticed for programming on a programmer's site. I was lucky. I want other people to not need luck.

cocoanut wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

cocoanut wrote:

As I said, that hardly matters.

I make a point.
You disagree.
I refute your point.
"It hardly matters"
~~~~~
Anyway. I'm not trying to yell or flame (if I come off that way I assure you it is unintentional), but we are voicing valid concerns with the website that you dismiss at not mattering as soon as you are losing the argument.

I haven't lost the argument, and they're not valid concerns. You can ignore it if you want, but you just don't want to try. 

Let's take an example:

Art and games are two completely different things.

Let's compare them to some sort of drink and a computer, also two completely different things.

A beverage will obviously take not as long to make as a computer.

Does that mean all beverages are terrible?

If the beverage is masquerading in a computer store as a computer does that make it out of place and not beneficial to the computer store?
Yes.

demosthenes wrote:

webgal15 wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

Because ~90% of projects have little (1-5 useless scripts) to no programming.

So?

SCRATCH
image * program * share
Happens to be the slogan of the site. Attention has veered away from Scratch's purpose. An educational tool that functions as a first step towards learning more complex programming languages, and a way to improve reasoning, logical thinking etc . . . Not a website to share your recent drawings or "OMGZZZZ I haz teh flue" as many front-page projects seem to be recently.

In addition, if you want to share your ART, do it on a ART site, like DEVIANTART, and not HERE, where users are trying to SHOW their INTERACTIVE COLLABORATIVE PROJECTS.

demosthenes wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

You say ignore art, that is impossible when it's constantly on the front page.

You ignore the front page.

That's a pathetic philosophy.
"Seem something you don't like and believe it could be fixed and improve the community, what should you do? Ignore it!"
That doesn't seem like the best strategy to me. I'm not saying eliminate are (although there should be more programming involved), we want diversity on the front-page.

And TBH, we DO look at the front page. There, we how to find new cool projects.

demosthenes wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

I'm not arguing (well maybe I am  ) but you can't ignore something when it's everything you see.

Not when you search for games and look at them.

Okay. I'll just sift through the thousands of games in hopes of stumbling on an okay one. The point of the front page is (or should be) to display recent, high-quality projects. I shouldn't have to browse thousands of search results.

Ok. I've seen all of the cool games on the Scratch Website (for example). Where can I find the newest ones? On the front page! But what has happened to the front page? It got spammed by n00bs!

demosthenes wrote:

demosthenes wrote:

Most games get unrecognized. Art with no programming or "announcement" projects from famous art-makers get all the attention.

...And?

Again, diversity. 'Tis easier to find games you like when they show up on the front page, and it makes the creator, who spent weeks/months on the project feel appreciated and gratified to know their game was enjoyed.

Answer this webgal - which project deserves more fame? A tiny announcement project that is the first project on an account (here), or a good, interactive project, that took a long time to make, that several people worked together to create. Apparently, the first, because of you stupid animators.