Scratch
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#1 2010-04-19 21:10:57
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Return of the diverse - The old Method
the project wrote:
The bottom three lists on our home page have been clogged up with useless and non interactive art projects about cats, 'anthros", "tokis", etc. for far too long. It seems like the same users, and same meaningless things are appearing over and over again. Me, along with some friends have come up with a solution that will restore order and diversity on the front page.
When Scratch 2.0 is released, a system of categorization should be added. When you share a project, you are required to place it in one of these categories:
Animation
Music
Game
Story
Simulation
Tutorial
Interactive Art (notice, its not just art)
and other: ____
This is a system similar to that used on Youtube, and will introduce a new way of organizing projects. The front page will consist of the same remixed, viewed, and loved rows, but it will display the #1 most loved/remixed/viewed for a random three categories every time the page is loaded.
This will solve future problems, but for now the only issue that remains is the categorization of the million projects already here.
Last edited by illusionist (2010-04-19 22:02:33)
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#4 2010-04-19 21:46:38
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
BUMP
Don't anyone DARE leave this one in the Dark! 
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#6 2010-04-19 22:01:56
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
cocoanut wrote:
illusionist wrote:
BUMP
Don't anyone DARE leave this one in the Dark!Uh, Illusionist, can you answer my question?
Right...
illusionist's masterpiece wrote:
The bottom three lists on our home page have been clogged up with useless and non interactive art projects about cats, 'anthros", "tokis", etc. for far too long. It seems like the same users, and same meaningless things are appearing over and over again. Me, along with some friends have come up with a solution that will restore order and diversity on the front page.
When Scratch 2.0 is released, a system of categorization should be added. When you share a project, you are required to place it in one of these categories:
Animation
Music
Game
Story
Simulation
Tutorial
Interactive Art (notice, its not just art)
and other: ____
This is a system similar to that used on Youtube, and will introduce a new way of organizing projects. The front page will consist of the same remixed, viewed, and loved rows, but it will display the #1 most loved/remixed/viewed for a random three categories every time the page is loaded.
This will solve future problems, but for now the only issue that remains is the categorization of the million projects already here.
Yes.
I will add this to the top post... 
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#8 2010-04-19 22:10:25
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
Chrischb wrote:
This is one of my favorites.
One of? 
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#11 2010-04-19 22:15:51
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
scmb1 wrote:
OK, now I disagree- about the "not just art" part. There is no way to stop people from uploading art and art on the site won't kill anyone. If you don't like art, don't view it!
Respect the motto.
imagine • program • share
Slideshows are the easiest way to make art interactive. 
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#12 2010-04-19 22:19:41
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
illusionist wrote:
scmb1 wrote:
OK, now I disagree- about the "not just art" part. There is no way to stop people from uploading art and art on the site won't kill anyone. If you don't like art, don't view it!
Respect the motto.
imagine • program • share
Slideshows are the easiest way to make art interactive.
I respect the motto. I don't view art projects. I don't share art projects. But there is no civil (and kind) way to stop people from doing so.
I'm on your side, illusionist. I want diversity. I'm just trying to be realistic.
Last edited by scmb1 (2010-04-19 22:41:20)
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#14 2010-04-19 22:37:32
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
cocoanut wrote:
Waitwaitwait, I want to show you guys something.
http://i43.tinypic.com/w02793.jpg
That means interactive art. Emo cats is not what the Scratch team was thinking when they made that mistake. 
Now run along an play with your emo cats.
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#15 2010-04-19 22:40:39
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
illusionist wrote:
cocoanut wrote:
Waitwaitwait, I want to show you guys something.
http://i43.tinypic.com/w02793.jpgThat means interactive art. Emo cats is not what the Scratch team was thinking when they made that mistake.
Now run along an play with your emo cats.
Heyheyhey, must I yet again bring up the fact that Andres himself said that Scratch was about programming and art? Since you seem to use word of an authority as an argument, I can too, correct?
Please leave a message at the beep.Steam: Hellephant
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#16 2010-04-19 22:44:29
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
cocoanut wrote:
illusionist wrote:
cocoanut wrote:
Waitwaitwait, I want to show you guys something.
http://i43.tinypic.com/w02793.jpgThat means interactive art. Emo cats is not what the Scratch team was thinking when they made that mistake.
Now run along an play with your emo cats.Heyheyhey, must I yet again bring up the fact that Andres himself said that Scratch was about programming and art? Since you seem to use word of an authority as an argument, I can too, correct?
andresmh wrote:
...think of interesting ways of combining art and programming...
Programming + Art = Interactive Art
Key word is COMBINING.
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#18 2010-04-19 22:49:27
- illusionist
- Retired Community Moderator
- Registered: 2008-07-02
- Posts: 1000+
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
scmb1 wrote:
I shall repeat: Does non-interactive art hurt you?
No.
So I don't understand the fuss.
Does it fill Scratch with junk that belongs on deviantArt?
Yes.
I don't understand your misunderstanding.
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#20 2010-04-19 22:54:58
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
scmb1 wrote:
Gosh. I don't like arguing. Especially when my stance is to just be peaceful. So I think I'll stop. I'll think what I think, you think you think.
I like arguments. It's a good brain workout.
Please leave a message at the beep.Steam: Hellephant
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#22 2010-04-19 22:58:22
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
illusionist wrote:
cocoanut wrote:
illusionist wrote:
That means interactive art. Emo cats is not what the Scratch team was thinking when they made that mistake.
Now run along an play with your emo cats.Heyheyhey, must I yet again bring up the fact that Andres himself said that Scratch was about programming and art? Since you seem to use word of an authority as an argument, I can too, correct?
andresmh wrote:
...think of interesting ways of combining art and programming...
Programming + Art = Interactive Art
Key word is COMBINING.
Andres never said "combine," and I don't think he misunderstood what he whole argument was about.
Please leave a message at the beep.Steam: Hellephant
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#23 2010-04-20 04:04:19
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
I completely agree that Scratch should have diversity. Even though Scratch was originally created as a way to teach programming, art isn't bad. There's no point in hating artists for what they do.
But there's a problem: it's not balanced. There's no denying it, art has taken over the programmers' territory. Even though the frontpage is no longer covered in pictures of cats, a lot of that has to do with the efforts to change the frontpage back to the way it was.
(Warning: 07er retelling Scratch's history)
When Scratch was created, for about a year and a half, games were what got viewed and placed on the frontpage, which was what attracted people to Scratch in the first place. Then somehow, that all changed. Artists took over, and people started joining only for art. It's gotten to the point where you can't ignore art projects.
Now, does that explain to some people why programmers are annoyed by artists? Because that took a long time to write.
Last edited by hmnwilson (2010-04-20 13:32:02)
I'm taking a break from Scratch until 2.0 comes out. Any messages sent between then and now probably won't be read - sorry.
(Oct. 20, 2011)
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#24 2010-04-20 06:33:09
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
One thing that bothers me is that most users seem to place projects into only two categories: Games and art.
What doesn't seem to bother the programming type users are:
• Games
• Math programs
What does seem to bother the programming type users are:
• Art
• Animations
• Remix chains
Don't split it into two types...
....................................
I don't see so much art on the front page. When I do see it, it actually is quite nice (^^), and I place loveits.
The amount of animations seems to have fallen (yes, I know that two are frontpaged at the moment), and I'm missing them.
Fortunately, they seem to be returning!
Games are still there - look at what I've recorded.
Top Loved:
#1. Game
#2. Game
#3. Animation
Top Viewed:
#1. Animation
#2. Game
#3. Animation
Cheer up - games are half of them.
I fall: It's a tragedy. You fall: It's comedy.
Hmph enjoy your fall - I get a lovely spring... without pans of new leaves.
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#25 2010-04-20 11:34:13
Re: Return of the diverse - The old Method
Scratch is and will always be a way for kids to express their creativity, whether it's by making simulations, animations, art, games, or projects that belong in new categories we can't even imagine.
That said - I agree that we do need to think about ways to ensure that lots of different kinds of projects are shown on the front page.
There's two major approaches I've been thinking about. One is customization: Anyone can choose the kind of stuff that gets shown on their own personal front page. So if you like simulations, you can select "*Simulations* the community is loving...", and each time you visit the homepage you get the top three simulations people have been loving lately. Same for Art, Games, etc.
Seems easy, eh? One problem is that there is a lot of crossover in the categories of stuff that Scratchers like. So even if you like *mostly* games, there are lots of animations out there you might like as well. If you set everything on your homepage to only show games, well, it means you may be missing out on a lot of other interesting / cool stuff. For example, I bet a lot of Scratchers who like games also like MHM, eh?
The other idea is sub-homepages. These would be like homepages that cater to smaller communities on Scratch. I'm not sure exactly how best to define these - by tags? Or let Scratchers make their own? But these sub-homepages would show projects based on your social network - so if you hung out on that page a lot, your projects might show up in what the sub--community is viewing, and so might those of your immediate friends. This might lessen some of the competition for front page space, and better support communities of Scratchers who share some of the same interests. One wouldn't have to become a superstar and reach the front page to get views 
Anyway - these kinds problems may seem like they have easy solutions, but I can assure you - they are always trickier than they first appear! So I'm glad you guys are talking about this stuff. I feel like the more we consider our different options to find a solution that works well for all members of the community, the better the solutions we finally come up with will be.
Help Scratchers make the leap to 2.0!
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