Scratch

BWOG wrote:

How come people are complaining about this all of the sudden? And I might quit the Scratch forums if miscellaneous is removed.

No offense intended, but then you are exactly that we don't really want in the Scratch forums if they aren't going to stay without a non-Scratch related section.

Ace-of-Spades wrote:

Why are you for the Miscellaneous section being moved? It would only have negative effects on the forum. The best idea is that implementing 100 or more posts to view the forums thing.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a common denominator in this. Everybody who doesn't make many scratch projects or anything wants Miscellaneous to stay. Everybody who are in collaborations, make many scratch projects, and enjoy helping others want it to leave. And it just happens that the second group is what the Scratch Forums are for.

Paddle2See wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

Ace-of-Spades wrote:

It would be a ghost town here without the Miscellaneous Section. Also, everyone would blame it on the people who started this (GooglePlexPlus, and maybe Lucario621)

Yeah - everyone will hate you and it will be all your fault.

Actually, the Scratch Team has been discussing this very idea long before Lucario621 or GooglePlexPlus brought it up.  So if it is implemented, the only people responsible for the action are the Scratch Team. 

I happen to think that the idea has many merits...the current open approach is more trouble then it is worth...there is too much abusive behavior and it is taking too much Forum Moderator and Scratch Team time to try and keep it a helpful and supportive resource, in my opinion.

RHY3756547 wrote:

With no agreement there will be no move. I see no agreement.

Respectfully,  that is not a requirement.  While community input is always welcome, the ultimate decision is up to the Scratch Team.

@RHY: HAHA IN YOUR FACE!

...

Jk...

Another thing is that just like how the previous Text-Based-Games caused the most arguments and such, now that that's gone, Miscellaneous is the cause of most of the arguments. This would cut some slack from mods, which would be nice, I bet.

Lucario621 wrote:

Ace-of-Spades wrote:

Why are you for the Miscellaneous section being moved? It would only have negative effects on the forum. The best idea is that implementing 100 or more posts to view the forums thing.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a common denominator in this. Everybody who doesn't make many scratch projects or anything wants Miscellaneous to stay. Everybody who are in collaborations, make many scratch projects, and enjoy helping others want it to leave. And it just happens that the second group is what the Scratch Forums are for.

Umm - Don't I fall into the category that wants it to "leave" apparently and you into the category that wants it to "stay"? O_o

Lucario621 wrote:

@RHY: HAHA IN YOUR FACE!

I really want to share my opinion about you right now. D:<

Lucario621 wrote:

Another thing is that just like how the previous Text-Based-Games caused the most arguments and such, now that that's gone, Miscellaneous is the cause of most of the arguments.

The misc section is not causing any arguments. The only one is yours here. The "arguments" in the forum itself are usually discussion that gets out of hand.

Last edited by RHY3756547 (2010-02-14 14:04:09)

greenflash wrote:

I guess history repeats itself...

But wasn't I&M made to keep off topic posts from cluttering the forums?

Will that happen again if Misc. is moved?

I think it would be fine to get rid of Misc. to another forum, but it's good that I&M has been split up so that serious topics, like collaborations ect. have a place to stay. 

The only negitive things about removing it would be the reappearance of off-topic threads. (although there will probably be less than there are now as there is no designated place for them). And the fact that scratchers could quit because Misc. is gone.

Maybe, but then the mods would just have to get more strict about keeping people from spamming. If people want to talk, they can do it somewhere else other than on scratch.

As far as people quitting because misc would go away, it doesn't matter. If they're leaving because they mostly talk off-topic and now they can't, obviously they weren't really as much of 'scratchers', but just people who were using scratch as a place to talk to friends, which isn't the purpose.

I think that removing it completely would just cause more trouble. It's the only place in the forums where people can post their opinions and ideas about anything that doesn't relate to scratch. Taking it away would mean many people who help the main forums anyway would quit, and spam would start piling up in the rest of the forums. That could ultimately lead to the demise of the forums altogether.

Also, scratch has one of the most kid-friendly forums out there, but arguments are bound to happen anyway, no matter which way you look at it. (That being said, we have some great moderators on this site.) There really is no advantage to removing Miscellaneous, so if anything is going to happen to it, it'll probably get moved (which might still turn the main forums into a ghost town anyway, since everyone will be in the new forum). We also just recently had a big change when I&M got split up into the 4 categories, so maybe we should wait a while before doing anything drastic. Plus, the original I&M existed since 2008, and was never a problem.

It's now up to the scratch team to decide Miscellaneous' fate.

Last edited by hmnwilson (2010-02-14 17:32:32)

The Text Based Games was the most trouble for the moderators and it caused the most fights, so it got moved. Now the Miscellaneous Forum is doing it, so it's being targetted too.

But instead of the 'now', think of it this way: The TBG was the #1 causer of fights, and the I&M (Misc.) was #2. They got rid of the first one, so now the second takes it's place, by default. At this rate, all of the forums on scratch will disappear.

Instead of any moving of forums, I suggest we get more moderators, or create a Citizen's Arrest functionality to every topic. It'll rest at the top of every thread, and if there's a fight going on in the thread, if enough people click it, the thread will be temporarily locked until a moderator or administrator comes and works things out, or chooses to keep it closed.

gettysburg11 wrote:

Ace-of-Spades wrote:

The Text Based Games was the most trouble for the moderators and it caused the most fights, so it got moved. Now the Miscellaneous Forum is doing it, so it's being targetted too.

But instead of the 'now', think of it this way: The TBG was the #1 causer of fights, and the I&M (Misc.) was #2. They got rid of the first one, so now the second takes it's place, by default. At this rate, all of the forums on scratch will disappear.

Instead of any moving of forums, I suggest we get more moderators, or create a Citizen's Arrest functionality to every topic. It'll rest at the top of every thread, and if there's a fight going on in the thread, if enough people click it, the thread will be temporarily locked until a moderator or administrator comes and works things out, or chooses to keep it closed.

You know what? That was probably the best post I've seen on this topic. I actually was thought about the scenario in the 2nd paragraph a little while ago. I also support the idea of users being able to temporarily close a thread until a mod or admin gets to it. People sometimes whine about the mods not getting to stuff quick enough, so that function could get rid of the whining.

But I don't think it's possible on this forum.

Lucario621 wrote:

Chrischb wrote:

Ace-of-Spades wrote:

It would be a ghost town here without the Miscellaneous Section.

Only because the majority of the users only go on the forums for the Miscellaneous forum.

Which is why I get frustrated whenever someone brags about their post count - it was done in the Miscellaneous. I never saw them outside.

...which is why I support Ace as top poster, because he does more than Miscellaneous - though I advise slowing down. 
....................................

Jonathanpb wrote:

The Miscellaneous forum is just a chatroom. It's ridiculous. It deserves to die.

I don't know why, but I love that sentence... that's how I feel.

Some threads are nice, like illusionist's Number of Projects thread... and some others. But most of them are just... oh, I'll post a list.

I made these up to avoid being harsh:

• Meh (no, meh does not mean "me") new site!
• I ish got a fevah (fever).
• OMG OMG OMG I FOUND 20 BUCKS
• lol im up at 3
• [removed by myself] has been annoying meh (no, meh does not mean me...)!
• YOU HATE MEH!
• I have 8000 posts!!!

What rubbish! That's chat stuff. Miscellaneous is good for the following threads, which deserve a proper forum:

• Did you see the opening ceremony of the Olympics?
• I'm going to be on vacation... so that's why I won't be able to help.
• Fastest 100,000 projects ever?
• Number of projects
• How to find your user number

Note that the last three can easily go into the All about Scratch forum. The above two don't really belong, but deserve a nice forum for themselves without junk in their way.

I don't really want the forum moved; it's the same problem, except that it's seperate from the Scratch Forums. I'd rather just have the Miscellaneous forum turned into a good zone, filled with the above threads.
....................................
You may be wondering, what's wrong with Miscellaneous? I'm not going to make a long speech, but one thing to point out: look at the number of pages of threads in the forum. Don't compare it with forums such as All About Scratch; they were made earlier, in a time where users actually made useful posts.

Compare it instead with the Collaboration, Requests, and Project Ideas forums. They were made at the same time.

Collaboration: 3 pages.
Requests: 3 pages.
Project Ideas: 3 pages.
Miscellaneous: 18 pages.

Well?

And if you go on the Scratch Forums at a time of day when only a few users are on, have a look...

70% of the time: Only Miscellaneous has been recently posted in.
20% of the time: Three forums (including Miscellaneous, of course) have been recently posted in.
6% of the time: Miscellaneous and only one other forum have been recently posted in.
4% of the time: No forums have been recently posted in.

Another thing... if you go online when many users are on, think about this:

Announcements: 3 active threads
New Scratch Members: 6 active threads
Show and Tell: 12 active threads
FAQ: Unactive, nobody cares
All about Scratch: 6 active threads
Advanced Topics: 3 active threads
Suggestions: 6 active threads
Troubleshooting: 3 active threads
Sensor Boards: Unactive 98% of the time
Educators: Unactive, closed to new posts, moved to another website - why not remove it?
Other languages: Unactive 92% of the time
Collaboration: 6 active threads
Requests: 4 active threads
Project Ideas: 5 active threads
Miscellaneous: 1 page and 3 threads, all active

Evidence staring in my face... how about yours?
....................................
I may be overreacting, but... this is how I've been feeling for a while, and it feels good to get it all out.

You do make a good point. But again, if you want to talk about the Olympics and other appropriate off-topic subjects, you can do it on twitter or facebook or google wave or whatever - but not on scratch - because the Scratch Forums is a place to talk about Scratch. Explain the title.

Um... sorry to quote it all, but removing my post would have been a bit... what's the proper word for that?

As for discussing on twitter and such, I don't have an account on those.    And I think you have to be over 13 to join twitter... I don't know much about those websites.

You have a point, but some Scratchers (maybe the ones you really want to talk to) don't have accounts.

Correct me if I'm missing something - I don't know much about those sites. 

BWOG wrote:

So that means that any forum that's for something paticuler can't have discussions about something else?

Is it right for the Scratch Forums to have a section for people to chat about whatever they want?

Ace-of-Spades wrote:

Jonathanpb wrote:

Mr_X wrote:

Well in that case, find them all and report them

Report them? Yeah, right. Here, I'll show you how ridiculous that is:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6870 … ngbadi.png
Everything circled is what I would have reported.

That 'What the Heck is this?' topic I made was asking something about Love-Its

And the Impossible Math Questions was my asking for Math Homework Help

Ace, don't excuse yourself.    Those are still topics that aren't Scratch related...

Paddle2See wrote:

Actually, the Scratch Team has been discussing this very idea long before Lucario621 or GooglePlexPlus brought it up.  So if it is implemented, the only people responsible for the action are the Scratch Team.

And you were thinking about the Text-Based Games problem before I was... so you're responsible.    Here's an award for getting rid of the Text-Based Games. *gives* 

Um... can you tell us what's been going on in the discussion? Is it likely to be moved?

Last edited by Jonathanpb (2010-02-15 01:56:33)