Scratch

Creating a scratch player is a fairly substantial amount of work.
A flash player apparently would have trouble because flash does not support the MIDI synthesized sounds, while java applets do.

johnm wrote:

...using a specific version of Windows, a browser, and Java, visit this project page a certain number of times...
...When looking for patterns, one thing to consider is your browsing habits. Do you tend to open many windows or tabs on Scratch projects at the same time? Do you use the back button a lot? Do you usually let an entire project load or go to a different page before it has finished loading? ...

I have this very problem with IE7 (WinXP, Java 1.6 update 3). I open a lot of different TABs with Scratch project I'm interested in. Then I close those TABS. But in the end my browser refuses to open new TABs and ALSO WinXP refuses to open EVERY OTHER THING: applications, windows, EVERYTHING is stuck.

So I have to close the IE7 window(s) and I get some functionality back. But, in the end, I have eventually to restart XP.

To complete: I don't use the back button much (almost never, I open and close a lot of new TABs). I go to a different page before a project has finished loading. But I do not open new projects as this WON'T allow the project that is loading to run after loading is finished.

Last edited by s_federici (2008-02-08 04:31:31)

IE7 has still some bugs, and is way more slow to open pages then then IE6 and mozilla firefox.

Try downloading mozilla firefox, this will help.

Technic20 wrote:

Also, It would be an advantage if we used flash because some sites like newgrounds and others let you sumbit Flash and not Java...

You still won't be able to submit it to newgrounds. It wouldn't convert your projects to flash it would just play them using flash. This means that the flash cannot work as by itself (as most flash games do) but it reads the .sb file.

abeair wrote:

hmnwilson wrote:

And sometimes I have to download projects to play them because 30 minutes go by and the red bar in the java loading screen doesn't move... *waits* Anyway, I'd say flash should replace java.

Me too! I am using Safari 3.2 on my MacBook, and it does the same thing.

This is because of your browsing cache ( i think ). Theres a way to increase this and it wont happen anymore

Come on people, lets be realistic. There isn't really much of a choice to make here, Flash is the obvious answer. Who cares if we can't make MIDI sounds anymore, Scratch music projects are a minority, and any idiot could just import mp3 versions of the sounds into Flash anyway and create something exactly the same.

No one can deny this - Almost every browser based game is made in flash, people even pay the creators to produce games for them. At the moment, Scratch games have a very small audience - Those who own Scratch, and those who have a Java enabled browser. Let's be honest, the Scratch browser isn't the best, Java has terrible loading times, there are numerous sound problems I've encountered and the general performance on larger projects is lower. Have a Scratch game in Flash would almost guarantee a performance increase, especially on larger projects. I've only ever had this memory leak problem twice, but it sounds fairly serious.

So tell me - People don't want to open up to a larger audience, full screen Scratch programs, faster loading times, and overall cleaner projects for the sake of a few sounds and twirling pictures? Having Scratch in Flash would open up so many opportunities for the program and the developers, hey, some of us may even get sponsored to produce commercial games.

marschalf wrote:

My project that I uploaded keeps crashing my web browser. My earlier test project did not. whats wrong?

I'm not sure this is a Flash vs Java question...probably this post should be under Troubleshooting.  But anyway...is it your Cat and Mouse project that is giving you trouble?  I am able to run it with no problems at all.  You might want to check your Java installation and make sure it's up to date. 

http://www.java.com/en/

Well do you know if u create scratch on Flash due to its HLL it will slow down even flash
Best way to help it
Make it on C++ plugin (i m working on a .EXE converter)
which can convert scratch to Low level Language and then WOOW we will see that we just got XNA on Scratch

Last edited by fanofcena (2009-07-07 10:11:54)

marcsteene wrote:

Come on people, lets be realistic. There isn't really much of a choice to make here, Flash is the obvious answer. Who cares if we can't make MIDI sounds anymore, Scratch music projects are a minority, and any idiot could just import mp3 versions of the sounds into Flash anyway and create something exactly the same.

No one can deny this - Almost every browser based game is made in flash, people even pay the creators to produce games for them. At the moment, Scratch games have a very small audience - Those who own Scratch, and those who have a Java enabled browser. Let's be honest, the Scratch browser isn't the best, Java has terrible loading times, there are numerous sound problems I've encountered and the general performance on larger projects is lower. Have a Scratch game in Flash would almost guarantee a performance increase, especially on larger projects. I've only ever had this memory leak problem twice, but it sounds fairly serious.

So tell me - People don't want to open up to a larger audience, full screen Scratch programs, faster loading times, and overall cleaner projects for the sake of a few sounds and twirling pictures? Having Scratch in Flash would open up so many opportunities for the program and the developers, hey, some of us may even get sponsored to produce commercial games.

Actually... there are a lot of people who care about the sounds. And if they Fixed the memory leak, and get rid of this "memory lea" by going into task manager, and EXITING firefox, eh geniuses?

Who in the fricken world of scratch would get sponsered to produce commercial games? That's just outrageous, scratch is an easy programming language meant to teach children about programming without the typing part and, it has capabilities, but those are extremely limited compared to simply learning to program with flash.

Scratch isn't meant to be like flash.

Scratch is supposed to be a simple, visual, programming language.

Scratch is supposed to be fun.

Scratch is NOT meant to be used commercially.
If you want to use scratch as a way to get sponsored commercially, LOL, you must be feelling very ambitious.

So, If you want to make a commmerical game, or get sponsored, get flash,

SCRATCH >< FLASH (SCRATCH is not FLASH)

I have flash, but I use scratch as a way to not use some annoying flash applet and to program easier than in flash, and to avoid the accidental right click and syndrome(riight clicking and then going to the about flash page on adobe's website.)

And there is a half of a chance that flash might make it slower(as someone said)

And I just find the flash applet a tad irritating.
you cant randomely get taken to a new tab by right clicking.

BAM!

Hows that for some doody-whatsa?
(mental breakdown censored)

*BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP*

#system reboot;
#cd /programs/scratch
#ls
      Scratch.exe
      icon.ico
      Secret ingredients.sb
      Projects
      human_emulator.c
#cc human_emulator.c
.
..
...
.
..
...
human_emulator.exe compiled 100%
16% SDRAM
#
#
#
#
#human_emulator -h

human_emulator is not a recognized function or bash file

#
#path /programs/scratch/human_emulator.exe
#human_emulator.exe -h

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Human emulator 1.5.2  CDL systems 2006(C)   |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

!Error - no backup files found

|
/
--
\
|
Initiating... please wait.

List of help(-h) options
_________________________________________________
-a                               |  aggressive
-s                               |  social
-e                               | uninstall Human emulator
                                  | 1.5.2 2006(C)

#human_emulator -s

_____________________________________________________________________

#ext

*beeeeeeeep*

Sorry bout that.

I really don't know what got into me..

dinther wrote:

relyt12101 wrote:

Archmage is right.

Also, Scratch is strongly a 3D environment. The way the Scratch app works, it would be hard to put into flash. Java is the logical choice.

Also, I believe Flash is only Windows/MacOSX

I disagree. While I was playing with Flash Animator I found it easy to import a bitmap and animate it. In fact most things are very similar to Scratch. And it should be because the Action Script language is based on java.

Flash is very different from scratch, flash is frame based while scratch isn't, and thats a big difference already

Darn it guys, listening to you guys argue about not being able to upload to Newgrounds and similar sites just gave me a dern good idea...

Why not make Scratch be able to MAKE/EDIT Swf files? It'd solve the problem of uploading!

And on the issue of MIDIs: Those are realllllly outdated. In fact, the only use of MIDIs now, is for remixing Video Game music. SERIOUSLY, THE WORLD CAN LIVE WITHOUT MIDIS UNLESS YOU'RE REMIXING VIDEO GAME MUSIC, OR REAL LIFE SONGS. SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

Next off, Flash has a nearly unlimited storage as far as I know, and it is faster than Java, and heck, you can do more things in Flash than in Java.

To make things short, turn Scratch into a program made for making/editing swfs and NO BODY EXCEPT FOR REMIXERS CARE ABOUT MIDIS!

FiremariomkiZX wrote:

And on the issue of MIDIs: Those are realllllly outdated. In fact, the only use of MIDIs now, is for remixing Video Game music. SERIOUSLY, THE WORLD CAN LIVE WITHOUT MIDIS UNLESS YOU'RE REMIXING VIDEO GAME MUSIC, OR REAL LIFE SONGS. SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

... NO BODY EXCEPT FOR REMIXERS CARE ABOUT MIDIS!

MIDIs... outdated?! Hardly. And they're not only used for remixing video game music. So long as there are games, cellphones, music composing software, and electronic instruments, it's unlikely they're going to go away anytime soon.

So I'm guessing that you
1) want the Scratch Team to get rid of the note blocks and render projects using the note blocks useless, or
2) want a set of roughly 88 note files per 128 instruments be included in Scratch's Music Folder to compensate for Flash and the ability for Flash to play them contiguously at a specified tempo and beat count.

If the second option can be executed flawlessly in Flash, the I would love to see a Flash player instead of Java. Other than that, I think I'll keep the note blocks and Java player and be happy.

The other thing is that Java is a programming language. Flash is more of an in-between. Also, the flash file format is considerably more tedious to make any large application than java.