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#26 2013-04-21 09:06:42

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Zeusking19 wrote:

Guys, you are also missing the point that ScratchR is freely available, but most of the software involved is deprecated and it is very hard to setup.

Personally I would like to keep the 1.4 site, but guys, at some point you will have to let it go.

I'm unsure what you meant by "ScratchR". The only thing I found was this
You seem like a 1.4 supporter who's going to adapt to 2.0.
Anyways "moving on" isn't a good reason to get rid if 2.0. Why can't someoe give me a good reason not to? I think that's b/c there is none. WITH1.4!!!!


http://www.scratch.mit.edu/static/icons/buddy/722915_med.png?t=2013-04-20+10%3A22%3A33 Click image to go to my stuff SAVE SCRATCH 1.4 SITE

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#27 2013-04-21 09:39:23

Zeusking19
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-07-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:

Guys, you are also missing the point that ScratchR is freely available, but most of the software involved is deprecated and it is very hard to setup.

Personally I would like to keep the 1.4 site, but guys, at some point you will have to let it go.

I'm unsure what you meant by "ScratchR". The only thing I found was this
You seem like a 1.4 supporter who's going to adapt to 2.0.
Anyways "moving on" isn't a good reason to get rid if 2.0. Why can't someoe give me a good reason not to? I think that's b/c there is none. WITH1.4!!!!

Yes, I am staying with the Scratch community after 2.0 comes out.
@ScratchR - https://www.assembla.com/spaces/scratchr/wiki, http://svn.assembla.com/svn/scratchr/

My point is that you can use ScratchR and have an almost exact replica of the 1.4 site.


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#28 2013-04-21 12:00:29

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Zeusking19 wrote:

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:

Guys, you are also missing the point that ScratchR is freely available, but most of the software involved is deprecated and it is very hard to setup.

Personally I would like to keep the 1.4 site, but guys, at some point you will have to let it go.

I'm unsure what you meant by "ScratchR". The only thing I found was this
You seem like a 1.4 supporter who's going to adapt to 2.0.
Anyways "moving on" isn't a good reason to get rid if 2.0. Why can't someoe give me a good reason not to? I think that's b/c there is none. WITH1.4!!!!

Yes, I am staying with the Scratch community after 2.0 comes out.
@ScratchR - https://www.assembla.com/spaces/scratchr/wiki, http://svn.assembla.com/svn/scratchr/

My point is that you can use ScratchR and have an almost exact replica of the 1.4 site.

Yes, I'm also staying with the scratch community when 2.0 comes out. I read the intro and saw ScratchR is used for sharing files/using tickets and streaming. I still think think they should keep the actual 1.4 site if this ScratchR doesn't work b/c it seems like it serves a different purpose than making replicas of sites. How do you make the exact replica of the 1.4 site using ScratchR if that is possible? Note:You also said that it was very difficult to set up ScratchR, so that's another reason why to keep the actual site. Also I just discovered it by your link, and I don't know how to use it. I'm being honest. Even if it might not work, please give me instructions on how to use it. Then again it's a lot easier to keep this site.

Last edited by co13 (2013-04-21 12:54:46)


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#29 2013-04-21 14:27:18

Zeusking19
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-07-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:

co13 wrote:


I'm unsure what you meant by "ScratchR". The only thing I found was this
You seem like a 1.4 supporter who's going to adapt to 2.0.
Anyways "moving on" isn't a good reason to get rid if 2.0. Why can't someoe give me a good reason not to? I think that's b/c there is none. WITH1.4!!!!

Yes, I am staying with the Scratch community after 2.0 comes out.
@ScratchR - https://www.assembla.com/spaces/scratchr/wiki, http://svn.assembla.com/svn/scratchr/

My point is that you can use ScratchR and have an almost exact replica of the 1.4 site.

Yes, I'm also staying with the scratch community when 2.0 comes out. I read the intro and saw ScratchR is used for sharing files/using tickets and streaming. I still think think they should keep the actual 1.4 site if this ScratchR doesn't work b/c it seems like it serves a different purpose than making replicas of sites. How do you make the exact replica of the 1.4 site using ScratchR if that is possible? Note:You also said that it was very difficult to set up ScratchR, so that's another reason why to keep the actual site. Also I just discovered it by your link, and I don't know how to use it. I'm being honest. Even if it might not work, please give me instructions on how to use it. Then again it's a lot easier to keep this site.

You are misunderstanding, the Scratch 1.4 website IS ScratchR.


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#30 2013-04-21 14:51:17

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Zeusking19 wrote:

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:

Yes, I am staying with the Scratch community after 2.0 comes out.
@ScratchR - https://www.assembla.com/spaces/scratchr/wiki, http://svn.assembla.com/svn/scratchr/

My point is that you can use ScratchR and have an almost exact replica of the 1.4 site.

Yes, I'm also staying with the scratch community when 2.0 comes out. I read the intro and saw ScratchR is used for sharing files/using tickets and streaming. I still think think they should keep the actual 1.4 site if this ScratchR doesn't work b/c it seems like it serves a different purpose than making replicas of sites. How do you make the exact replica of the 1.4 site using ScratchR if that is possible? Note:You also said that it was very difficult to set up ScratchR, so that's another reason why to keep the actual site. Also I just discovered it by your link, and I don't know how to use it. I'm being honest. Even if it might not work, please give me instructions on how to use it. Then again it's a lot easier to keep this site.

You are misunderstanding, the Scratch 1.4 website IS ScratchR.

You are correct that I misunderstood you. However, it seems like your encouraging something for me to use that can't make the replica of this site. "Advertising" something else. The only thing of that site I can compare to this is "tickets". They seem like forum post. I don't see sharing projects, or anything else like the scratch site (this site). How do you get that site to function like this one? Do you have to sign up and make the site yourself? Also that site seems nothing like this one at all? Please give me instructions on how to make the replica using ScratchR resources and the assembla. ScratchR doesn't seem like it functions like this site at all. It seems like assembla functions more like a site builder. I'm kind of confused, I'll admit. Please explains these and give me instructions.

Note: I also found this https://www.assembla.com/features/compare This is the reason why I said "assembla functions like a site builder". It also wants you to pay, which I'm not looking to do.


http://www.scratch.mit.edu/static/icons/buddy/722915_med.png?t=2013-04-20+10%3A22%3A33 Click image to go to my stuff SAVE SCRATCH 1.4 SITE

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#31 2013-04-21 15:05:39

roijac
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

ScratchR is the php code that is used on this site. The code is stored on assembla, and you have to configure an Apache web server if you want to run it; it has nothing to do with assembla, where the code is stored. Like it seems, you don't have the know-how to make this work, and running such a web server is anyway too much for a normal internet connection and a home PC.

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#32 2013-04-21 16:42:03

MrFlash67
Scratcher
Registered: 2012-08-08
Posts: 500+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

roijac wrote:

Running such a web server is anyway too much for a normal internet connection and a home PC.

This was one of my original points.


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#33 2013-04-21 19:08:17

poopo
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-09-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

co13 wrote:

poopo wrote:

Where are you getting all your statistics from?

1) Experience 2) Other Scratchers 3) Forum posts. See the "Keep1.4" and the "Anyone kinds want scratch1.4 to stay" posts. Also go here Scratch Stats Then click options->users. You'll see more users are 14-16, most are 15. I still won't say may age.

Exactly, so it's uncredible. Scratch shouldn't be a social media website but rather a tool to learn programming with. It ought not matter what site we use as long as it's centered around the programming "language"


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#34 2013-04-22 02:56:22

Zeusking19
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-07-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:

co13 wrote:


Yes, I'm also staying with the scratch community when 2.0 comes out. I read the intro and saw ScratchR is used for sharing files/using tickets and streaming. I still think think they should keep the actual 1.4 site if this ScratchR doesn't work b/c it seems like it serves a different purpose than making replicas of sites. How do you make the exact replica of the 1.4 site using ScratchR if that is possible? Note:You also said that it was very difficult to set up ScratchR, so that's another reason why to keep the actual site. Also I just discovered it by your link, and I don't know how to use it. I'm being honest. Even if it might not work, please give me instructions on how to use it. Then again it's a lot easier to keep this site.

You are misunderstanding, the Scratch 1.4 website IS ScratchR.

You are correct that I misunderstood you. However, it seems like your encouraging something for me to use that can't make the replica of this site. "Advertising" something else. The only thing of that site I can compare to this is "tickets". They seem like forum post. I don't see sharing projects, or anything else like the scratch site (this site). How do you get that site to function like this one? Do you have to sign up and make the site yourself? Also that site seems nothing like this one at all? Please give me instructions on how to make the replica using ScratchR resources and the assembla. ScratchR doesn't seem like it functions like this site at all. It seems like assembla functions more like a site builder. I'm kind of confused, I'll admit. Please explains these and give me instructions.

Note: I also found this https://www.assembla.com/features/compare This is the reason why I said "assembla functions like a site builder". It also wants you to pay, which I'm not looking to do.

As mentioned above, you clearly do not understand ScratchR and what it does. The forums run Pun/FluxBB, and the rest of the website runs ScratchR.

Assembla HOSTS the code for ScratchR, making it available. It is NOT a website builder.
Unfortunately, if you cannot understand some of these basics it is probably not a good idea to embark on such a project.


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#35 2013-04-22 06:04:45

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

roijac wrote:

ScratchR is the php code that is used on this site. The code is stored on assembla, and you have to configure an Apache web server if you want to run it; it has nothing to do with assembla, where the code is stored. Like it seems, you don't have the know-how to make this work, and running such a web server is anyway too much for a normal internet connection and a home PC.

That's another reason why to keep this site. The first part. Although, how is it too much to run a web server? I realized that my desktop CPU (home PC) is very powerful more than than my laptop, and the other laptop if I were going to use it. So of it doesn't work, then can you tell me how much memory is required to run a web server?


http://www.scratch.mit.edu/static/icons/buddy/722915_med.png?t=2013-04-20+10%3A22%3A33 Click image to go to my stuff SAVE SCRATCH 1.4 SITE

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#36 2013-04-22 06:13:42

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

poopo wrote:

co13 wrote:

poopo wrote:

Where are you getting all your statistics from?

1) Experience 2) Other Scratchers 3) Forum posts. See the "Keep1.4" and the "Anyone kinds want scratch1.4 to stay" posts. Also go here Scratch Stats Then click options->users. You'll see more users are 14-16, most are 15. I still won't say may age.

Exactly, so it's uncredible. Scratch shouldn't be a social media website but rather a tool to learn programming with. It ought not matter what site we use as long as it's centered around the programming "language"

I would want that too, but try telling a programmer ins any other language than scratch even BYOB3.0 and ask them would do they think of Scratch2.0 it self? Also ask them to compare the beta 2.0 to a modded Scratch1.4, and all it's available downloads/features/plugins/1.4 blocks in the block library. That's the reason. Although2.0 supports all OS's, and has cloud data as of now 1.4 is a more powerful program. You really think the "YourLocalBlockLibrary" users, and all the other users who made 1.4 features are going to re-make them for 2.0? I don't think they will.


http://www.scratch.mit.edu/static/icons/buddy/722915_med.png?t=2013-04-20+10%3A22%3A33 Click image to go to my stuff SAVE SCRATCH 1.4 SITE

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#37 2013-04-22 06:25:44

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Zeusking19 wrote:

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:


You are misunderstanding, the Scratch 1.4 website IS ScratchR.

You are correct that I misunderstood you. However, it seems like your encouraging something for me to use that can't make the replica of this site. "Advertising" something else. The only thing of that site I can compare to this is "tickets". They seem like forum post. I don't see sharing projects, or anything else like the scratch site (this site). How do you get that site to function like this one? Do you have to sign up and make the site yourself? Also that site seems nothing like this one at all? Please give me instructions on how to make the replica using ScratchR resources and the assembla. ScratchR doesn't seem like it functions like this site at all. It seems like assembla functions more like a site builder. I'm kind of confused, I'll admit. Please explains these and give me instructions.

Note: I also found this https://www.assembla.com/features/compare This is the reason why I said "assembla functions like a site builder". It also wants you to pay, which I'm not looking to do.

As mentioned above, you clearly do not understand ScratchR and what it does. The forums run Pun/FluxBB, and the rest of the website runs ScratchR.

Assembla HOSTS the code for ScratchR, making it available. It is NOT a website builder.
Unfortunately, if you cannot understand some of these basics it is probably not a good idea to embark on such a project.

Actually, I kind of understood that yesterday since I read the ScratchR article yesterday, but you made it more clear. So ScratchR is the platform, and the Assembla is the hoster. Is that correct? It seems setting this up is extremely difficult like you said, but it would be a lot easier if you have me instructions. However, even if the Assembla and ScratchR is too much for my PC please give me instructions.


http://www.scratch.mit.edu/static/icons/buddy/722915_med.png?t=2013-04-20+10%3A22%3A33 Click image to go to my stuff SAVE SCRATCH 1.4 SITE

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#38 2013-04-22 06:28:20

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

2.0 supporters- 2.0 is going to exist in the future so why get rid of 1.4? Isn't two scratch programs better in the first place. Both 1.4 and 2.0 have very useful features.1.4-supporters, if you want 1.4 to stay please join the teams and help me. Note: We might be using "ScratchR" here: here
and here Also  here Join the teams!!!! WITH 1.4!

Last edited by co13 (2013-04-22 14:23:14)


http://www.scratch.mit.edu/static/icons/buddy/722915_med.png?t=2013-04-20+10%3A22%3A33 Click image to go to my stuff SAVE SCRATCH 1.4 SITE

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#39 2013-04-23 11:45:04

Zeusking19
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-07-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Ok, I can NOT give instructions. But there are reasons why this is a terrible idea to home host:

1. Your ISP is gonna go mad at you for running a server, it could be against their terms of service.

2. If you dont even understand the basic requirements for a web server, YOU SHOULDNT BE RUNNING ONE!

3. Quit the idea, The scratch team will not approve.


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#40 2013-04-23 16:04:46

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Zeusking19 wrote:

Ok, I can NOT give instructions. But there are reasons why this is a terrible idea to home host:

1. Your ISP is gonna go mad at you for running a server, it could be against their terms of service.

2. If you dont even understand the basic requirements for a web server, YOU SHOULDNT BE RUNNING ONE!

3. Quit the idea, The scratch team will not approve.

A) Why can't you give instructions?

1). How will my ISP (Internet Service Provider) go mad (won't work)? I think I'll be able to run one if you tell me how much CPU meomory is required. Then I can decide if I'm able to run it. There's nothing that scratch says you cannot make a mirror website of the scratch1.4 site once 2.0 is out. The site won't exist anymore, so their copyright on the Scratch2.0 site shouldn't apply to the "old site" in the future/1.4 site. Anyways I'll give ALL credit to them. The only thing that I won't give credit is actually making the site. Everything else yes.

2) Basics: http://www.wikihow.com/Run-A-Webserver- … r-Computer
The only thing I won't do is pay for a domain. All I can say is, I'm not looking to do that. However there are free web server programs, and there are also free ways to get a domain: here That's b/c I don't want to pay (for a specific reason that is classified), not because I can't afford it (I think).

3) Why won't the scratch team approve of it?  It shouldn't be copyright, even though I would give them credit. The only thing that can stop me is if I don't get a team of 6 members excluding me, or if my most powerful CPU cannot run a web server. Except that there is a possibility.

4) If I am unable to run a web server, I will make a new scratch1.4 site off a site builder. That is actually in-progress right now. Not close to finished, I just started. It won't be as good as the regular scratch1.4 site considering features. Except that it will be the only alternative, unless my original idea (this forum post) holds. It is also a faster site considering it's powered by webs. The forums is faster, and there will be another way to chat. There also will be a way to share projects to it. That I will not reveal to you. It will be (the new 1.4 site will be) on a seperate forum post if I choose to complete that project.

5) My bet is that I will be able to run a webserver with ScratchR/Assembla if you give me instructions. I'm also suspecting you aren't giving me the instructions b/c you want to rid of the 1.4. site? Why won't you give me instructions?  I like it the features of the new site/2.0, but I'm more comfortable using 1.4./the 1.4 site. A better reason: I don't want 1.4's it's useful features I mentioned in my first post of this topic to be unheard of/unused anymore. PLEASE ANSWER!

Last edited by co13 (2013-04-23 16:06:50)


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#41 2013-04-23 16:17:02

Zeusking19
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-07-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

co13 wrote:

Zeusking19 wrote:

Ok, I can NOT give instructions. But there are reasons why this is a terrible idea to home host:

1. Your ISP is gonna go mad at you for running a server, it could be against their terms of service.

2. If you dont even understand the basic requirements for a web server, YOU SHOULDNT BE RUNNING ONE!

3. Quit the idea, The scratch team will not approve.

A) Why can't you give instructions?

1). How will my ISP (Internet Service Provider) go mad (won't work)? I think I'll be able to run one if you tell me how much CPU meomory is required. Then I can decide if I'm able to run it. There's nothing that scratch says you cannot make a mirror website of the scratch1.4 site once 2.0 is out. The site won't exist anymore, so their copyright on the Scratch2.0 site shouldn't apply to the "old site" in the future/1.4 site. Anyways I'll give ALL credit to them. The only thing that I won't give credit is actually making the site. Everything else yes.

2) Basics: http://www.wikihow.com/Run-A-Webserver- … r-Computer
The only thing I won't do is pay for a domain. All I can say is, I'm not looking to do that. However there are free web server programs, and there are also free ways to get a domain: here That's b/c I don't want to pay (for a specific reason that is classified), not because I can't afford it (I think).

3) Why won't the scratch team approve of it?  It shouldn't be copyright, even though I would give them credit. The only thing that can stop me is if I don't get a team of 6 members excluding me, or if my most powerful CPU cannot run a web server. Except that there is a possibility.

4) If I am unable to run a web server, I will make a new scratch1.4 site off a site builder. That is actually in-progress right now. Not close to finished, I just started. It won't be as good as the regular scratch1.4 site considering features. Except that it will be the only alternative, unless my original idea (this forum post) holds. It is also a faster site considering it's powered by webs. The forums is faster, and there will be another way to chat. There also will be a way to share projects to it. That I will not reveal to you. It will be (the new 1.4 site will be) on a seperate forum post if I choose to complete that project.

5) My bet is that I will be able to run a webserver with ScratchR/Assembla if you give me instructions. I'm also suspecting you aren't giving me the instructions b/c you want to rid of the 1.4. site? Why won't you give me instructions?  I like it the features of the new site/2.0, but I'm more comfortable using 1.4./the 1.4 site. A better reason: I don't want 1.4's it's useful features I mentioned in my first post of this topic to be unheard of/unused anymore. PLEASE ANSWER!

A) This is too complicated to give instructions for.
1. This kind of thing can actually get your internet services CANCELLED. In some cases you are NOT ALLOWED to run any kind of server AT ALL.

2. I know there are various web servers, I work in the web design and maintenance field. Apache/nginx/etc. If you cant afford a domain, yet again, dont try.

3. This dosnt rely on CPU, but rather bandwidth, network speeds and RAM. Chances are you WILL NOT have enough of this. The Scratch Team holds no copyright to the ScratchR platform, but they hold every right to the existing Scratch 1.4 Website.

4. Webs is completely unprofessional and you will not be able to share projects due to restrictions. That kind of website is forbidden on their servers as well. If you have to use a website builder to do this, DO NOT ATTEMPT IT.

5. Once again, ASSEMBLA HOST THE CODE!!!!!! IT IS NOT A DOWNLOADABLE PRODUCT! If you cannot understand this ONE, SIMPLE, PART, DO NOT.

REPEAT.

DO NOT ATTEMPT IT.


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#42 2013-04-23 17:07:13

Paddle2See
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

It is a lot of work to build a site that can handle a large volume of traffic.  It is something that you might want to talk to your ISP about before you dive into it.  I don't think the Scratch Team has any problem if you want to build something like that though - the code is all open source.  But you can't use the name "Scratch" in the title - so that people don't get confused.

That being said, you might find it is more work than you want to take on - perhaps a more productive use of your time would be helping us improve the Scratch 2.0 site.  On the other hand, in building your own site, you would probably learn an lot of new things - also a good result.  Be aware that you would be doing it pretty much on your own though - while the source code is available to the public, we don't provide detailed instructions  smile


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#43 2013-04-23 19:40:49

Firedrake969
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

First, like Paddle said, you can't use "Scratch" in the title, which defeats the purpose.
Second, if you "ruled" the site and you didn't call it Scratch, which you couldn't, people wouldn't come here.
Third, it's an MIT domain.
Fourth, the ST has the power to not let you unless you hack.  And most people can't hack a university known for its programming prowess.
Fifth, who let anyone lead?  Shouldn't everyone be equal?

No support.


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#44 2013-04-23 20:28:15

poopo
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-09-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

co13 wrote:

poopo wrote:

co13 wrote:

1) Experience 2) Other Scratchers 3) Forum posts. See the "Keep1.4" and the "Anyone kinds want scratch1.4 to stay" posts. Also go here Scratch Stats Then click options->users. You'll see more users are 14-16, most are 15. I still won't say may age.

Exactly, so it's uncredible. Scratch shouldn't be a social media website but rather a tool to learn programming with. It ought not matter what site we use as long as it's centered around the programming "language"

I would want that too, but try telling a programmer ins any other language than scratch even BYOB3.0 and ask them would do they think of Scratch2.0 it self? Also ask them to compare the beta 2.0 to a modded Scratch1.4, and all it's available downloads/features/plugins/1.4 blocks in the block library. That's the reason. Although2.0 supports all OS's, and has cloud data as of now 1.4 is a more powerful program. You really think the "YourLocalBlockLibrary" users, and all the other users who made 1.4 features are going to re-make them for 2.0? I don't think they will.

Many of these mods are stand alone. They can be downloaded and used whether the current version is 1.4 or 2.0 or their forum thread is in 1.4 or 2.0. The people who have the volition to mod Scratch and create mods will be able to do this whether the website is 1.4 or 2.0.

The reason your ISP will not approve is that running servers takes a TON of bandwith, especially high traffic websites like Scratch. Also, if you're quote "not excited about buying a domain" then why would you be happy to buy multiple $2000 server computers? This post shows that it takes tons of computers to run a large website.

Last edited by poopo (2013-04-23 20:33:59)


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#45 2013-04-23 21:02:18

veggieman
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-08-12
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

I will try and explain what I think of what's being discussed in this thread as well as I can. I personally will move on to 2.0 when it is rolled out of beta and am not particularly partial to either site.

To start with, the Scratch Team will (like 99.9% guaranteed) not give you hosting or the scratch.mit.edu domain name or allow you to call your site Scratch. When they say they don't have enough resources for having both sites, they mean both in terms of moderation as well as in server space. Although they could definitely find volunteers to fill these moderation positions, they would need to have people they can really trust because, as this is a site intended for children by a well-respected university, they have to abide by certain legalities, etc. and make sure that they have a strong, reliable moderation team. I'm not trying to offend you, but they can't just hand the site to a group of minors and let them do what they wish with it.

However, as was mentioned previously, you could set up your own site with ScratchR, the platform that the Scratch website uses. For some similar analogies, ScratchR for Scratch is like MediaWiki for Wikipedia, or Wordpress for many blogs. However, the main difference between them is that ScratchR is a much smaller project with a smaller coding team, few updates, and there's only one major site running it, the Scratch website. You can find all of its source code here, which includes the INSTALL.txt file with information of how to install it on Ubuntu, and I also previously made a guide here which sort of worked for me once but I haven't been able to get it to since. The only people I've ever known to get it running fully were RHY and jvvg.
[Another note: Assembla is just the hosting site for the code repository. It's like Mediafire, but customised for specifically hosting code and has a lot of tools for that. I wouldn't give it too much notice]

It is, unfortunately, very difficult to set up a site with ScratchR. You have to really know your way around object-oriented PHP and MySQL database connections, as well as be able to host it. You can't use most hosting services to host it, because it requires modification of httpd.conf, unless you have a really expensive VPS or dedicated server. Hosting it at home would also be difficult because most internet connections (unless it's really good) aren't fast enough to serve a site of this magnitude at a reasonable speed (plus, as Paddle mentioned, a lot of ISPs don't really like this).

I wouldn't recommend trying this unless you're really confident about your abilities with it.


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#46 2013-04-24 03:25:32

Devloper123
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

For hosting try 1FreeHosting


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#47 2013-04-24 03:41:11

nathanprocks
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-04-14
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Devloper123 wrote:

For hosting try 1FreeHosting

This probably won't work because as veggieman said, it requires modification of httpd.conf.


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#48 2013-04-24 04:00:52

veggieman
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-08-12
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

nathanprocks wrote:

Devloper123 wrote:

For hosting try 1FreeHosting

This probably won't work because as veggieman said, it requires modification of httpd.conf.

Indeed, it won't. And no free host will.

In addition, most free hosts don't give you enough space to run a site like this and most hosts overall, even paid ones, don't allow you to have file upload sites.


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#49 2013-04-24 11:11:05

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

Nice post veggieman! That sums things up really well.

For those of you who might be interested in setting up a webserver - I'd recommend starting with something easier than ScratchR. I set up my personal website on a raspberry pi.  smile  It just serves HTML, but it's all home grown bits, straight from my dining room.  And it's a great way to learn how to run a webserver.

Here are some pretty comprehensive instructions (with links to more detail):
http://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-as-webserver/

(Raspberry Pi is a $45 dollar computer. Not a lot of muscle for databases and PHP, but serves plain old HTML up just fine. )

Last edited by Lightnin (2013-04-24 11:11:35)


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#50 2013-04-24 19:01:33

co13
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-13
Posts: 72

Re: Scratch2.0 Site Or Scratch1.4 Site? Why Not Both?

(Replying to comments from Zuesking's last post to Lightnin's post. Wow. That says a lot. Jeez I was just trying to save a useful site and that's what I get (non-sarcasm/not a bad tone). Anyways I'll try to reply to all of them.

ZuesKing: You were 99% correct. I still wasn't about to give up. However, it is almost impossible to run a web server w/ScratchR at that point. 1% wrong: Abviously webs is unprofessional since it's a site builder, but there are ways to get around that. It still can make a site is the bottom line. I am the leader of a team site on Scratch called TeamRumble/QuakingProductions. Since I can't give a link (my site follow's scratch's rules, but I haven't gotten it approved yet) here's instructions: www.duckduckgo.com search "QuakingProductions", click the first link. My site isn't close to finished and we have to put a lot more projects on the site. It's also receives updates. It just doesn't need them b/c it's rarely used or unheard of. I'm not persuading the use of it until I make a major update. It's just worth a look.

Paddle2See: I wouldn't name it scratch. I would name it something using most of the scratch word though so it's recognizable. However, It's almost clear (up until this post) that it is extremly to difficult/99% impossible for me to make (1% not) at my low stage of programming. I will make more use of my time suggesting the site for 2.0. Suggestion: Make the mascots on the homepage appeal to all ages not just 8-. Make them look like the small scratch cat mascot on the front page. Suggestion2: Fix the newFP. Make it run like the old flash v37. I'm apologize, I'm not allowed to post the link to my v37 site. I really want to make a project comparing the difference b/t flash37 and the flashv200's. However, I really do not have the time to do so.
Firedrake: I wouldn't name it scratch, just something that uses most of the letters in the scratch word so it's recognizable. Also, I'm not a hacker. I plan to use programming as a useful/helpful feature in the future. However that's a big jump from here.

Poopo: I understand the mod part but like I said in the first post, I don't the the creators of  "YourLocalBlockLibrary" are going to make blocks for 2.0. I'm finished w/my mod "TigerBuild", but the truth is I copied and pasted from the blocklibrary. I know I can learn it, but then again lack of time especially now. However I really wanted to make a scratch mod so I made it anyway. It's my first mod, but I think it's reasonable for it's purpose: "A program in between Scratch1.4 and 2.0". I'm just saying I don't think those blocks will ever exist for 2.0. Also, yes my ISP and CPU power probably isn't powerful enough to run a web server. I just thought how hard anything is, is worth a try.

veggieman: I realize I cannot use that domain at this point. It is way too much work for a single person especially like me to run I said I cannot even code (the sad truth). I thought I would be able to edit a few things with instructions, but there's not a instructions manual for that. About the web server, yes it is far too difficult for me to understand. It would take years for me to learn, and all I have is hours of free time, barely. It also depends which day I get that hour of free time. However, I still think it would be worth a shot to try it. That's if it wasn't too hard to understand. I did read some of the guide. That's why it's too difficult for me to understand. I didn't thought the scratch site was really that powerful (I didn't think about it). Nothing comes easy these days. Please don't say "Would did you expect". I understand that now when it comes to webservers. This is what I mean sadly: I do not have the slighlest ability on how to run a web sever although I was looking to learn this and make it work. Sort of dedicate my free time to make it, but the truth is I am extremly unexperienced in this server. It makes me feel disgusted to say, especially to a scratcher like veggieman who knows this much about webservers.  neutral  I would make a sad face, but showing weakness would be worse. Thanks for the guide though. I might be able to use it in the far future.

Developer123: If I try to run a web server I think I will try 1FreeHosting unless then I will pay for it. It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I won't pay for it (specefic reason that is classified). It would ruin my reputation probably like my comment to veggieman did "I am unexperienced in web servers". However I will still try this one since it's from a scratcher. Also from the developer who was helping me w/my mod. Thanks for the link as well.

nathanprocks/veggieman: Maybe by the time I beconme experienced w/web servers, I will choose to pay for a stronger web server, but for now and for a different server than scratch 1FreeHosting may be a useful option.

Lightnin: Yes, since it comes from you the main leader of the scratch team (is that correct?), I might use that in the far future. Even if your aren't the head, then I will still try it out if I decide to start by own web server. Again, in the far future. It occured to me that this isn't the right time to run web servers. However the guide seems useful, and I will bookmark the links for reference. If I eventually start a web server I believe that is the one I will use. Then make my way to ScratchR. By that time, the 1.4 site will be long gone. Thanks for the links Lightnin'. Although I wasn't planning on showing this to the scratch team, unless I got a team and planning/setting up these servers were successful. They were not at the end. Thanks again.

Conclusion: I will not try to revive the scratch server nor make a website off of the site builder webs.com. The site wouldn't be able to match 2.0, or users that would use both site. It would also require the help of the 2.0 site. I was working on the site off of webs.com, but I realized I have just used up a lot of my time once again. Next time I will think harder before posting a forum topic for this, although it took me 30 minutes early in the morning for 5days. I seriously believe it was much easier to save the 1.4 site than this. Remember my suggestions to Paddle2See. Please do. I will return to my mod TigerBuild1.5-A Mod in between Scratch1.4 and Scratch2.0.  Then I will make a site for it. My honest feeling is that my suggestions will not be followed like they are used to, and TB will not be in use. However please still use them for the 2.0 site. It means a lot, not just me. Also, I think TB is one of the last remainders of 2.0 including BYOB3.0. I encourage scratchers to use the 1.4 mods, to use scratch1.4, to use scratch2.0, to use BYOB3.0, and to use TigerBuild1.5. Nothing comes easy these days, you have to work hard for it. I already know that, just mentioning it. SCRATCH ON!

Note: I apologize for another "essay" post. It took a lot of time (for a post) to make this one. 1hr approximately. It took a lot of thinking for me. Please respect it, and if any other scratchers are in opposition to keeping both, please read this first. However, it would've been better to keep this site while adding the 2.0 site. That is 99.9% impossible to me now. Scratch2.0 has won. I would like to see what happens when scratch3.0 comes out if it will. Who will win then? I still think I won't be an active scratcher then to see the outcome. Just rarely using scratch. Anyways Good Luck on the 2.0 site! Seems like the motto should be SCRATCH2.0 ON!

Note2: There might I been many errors (grammar/opinions), but I won't be able to fix them since there's no need. I think it was clear enough. Re: SCRATCH2.0 ON!

Update: This actual isn't over yet, read page 3-and on to see what happened.

Last edited by co13 (2013-04-25 18:32:08)


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