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#1 2013-03-19 22:15:50

PhantomEXE
Scratcher
Registered: 2012-01-27
Posts: 27

Re_Structure

I tried this before. I don't think I was clear enough and that not enough people read everything. So this time I will take precautions.

A) Please read every post in the entire thread before commenting. ALL OF IT. ALL. OF. IT. I'd like to repeat that. The whole thread. The. Whole. Thread. As in all of the posts. I, like the creators of modloader, reserve the right to ignore people who don't read the big bold print.
B) Scratch is for creating. The purpose of scratch is to create things and share them.
C) Ignore all other threads that seem similar to this thread.

Let's begin.
I will be using statements (which will be blatantly true and numbered using Arabic numerals) and premises (truths logically drawn from the facts numbered using roman numerals) to reach the conclusion.

THE QUOTE
"Scratch is a programming language that makes it easy to create your own interactive stories, animations, games, music, and art -- and share your creations on the web."
-Scratch, About

I will be crystal clear. If it seems condescending, it's not meant to be and/or you're smart. I'm just making sure no one misunderstands me. Let's bring out the statements.

1) Given the above quote, scratch (the program) can be used for creating interactive stories, animations, games, music, and art.
2) Given the above quote, scratch (the website) is for sharing things you created using scratch.
3) mis·use /misˈyo͞oz/ (Verb) Use (something) in the wrong way or for the wrong purpose. (Noun) The wrong or improper use of something: "their misuse can have dire consequences".

Ignore statement 3 for now.

Statements 1-3 lead to PREMISE I:

I. Using scratch (the website) properly is posting creations you created using scratch.

Next, I will add a fourth statement using statement 3.

4) If you aren't using something properly, you are misusing it.

Things that are created using scratch will hereby be referred to as "valid projects". The meaning of "created using scratch" and thus "valid project" is very important, so I will define it:

Valid project: An interactive story, animation, game, music, or piece of art the contents of which were created entirely using scratch (the program), an interactive story, animation, game, music, or piece of art that is significantly scratch (the program or website) related, or an interactive story, animation, game, music, or piece of art that requires the animating, interactive, and/or programming abilities of scratch (the program) to function properly.

We can use this in conjunction with statement 3 and premise I to produce PREMISE II.

II. Since using scratch (the website) properly is posting things you created using scratch (the program), aka valid projects, posting things you did not create using scratch (the program) on scratch (the website) is a misuse of scratch (the website).

Let's take a look at what I've gathered here.

I have 4 statements:

1) Given the above quote, scratch (the program) can be used for creating interactive stories, animations, games, music, and art.
2) Given the above quote, scratch (the website) is for sharing things you created using scratch.
3) mis·use /misˈyo͞oz/ (Verb) Use (something) in the wrong way or for the wrong purpose. (Noun) The wrong or improper use of something: "their misuse can have dire consequences".
4) If you aren't using something properly, you are misusing it.

I have two premises:

I. Using scratch (the website) properly is posting creations you created using scratch.
II. Since using scratch (the website) properly is posting things you created using scratch (the program), aka valid projects, posting things you did not create using scratch (the program) on scratch (the website) is a misuse of scratch (the website).

And to sum it all up I will hereby write THE CONCLUSION:

Posting anything that is not a valid project on the scratch website is a misuse of the scratch website.

Invalid projects are rampant. Scratch is being misused. To destroy any and all arguments that this isn't a problem, I would like to say that even as I type a first-spot front-page project is invalid. In the project description it clearly states that the contents of the project were created using a completely separate from scratch, and the contents of the project are not scratch-related. To further convince those who may still think this is not a problem, remember that every invalid project on the front page is taking the place of a valid project. I would estimate that hundreds of excellent and noteworthy valid projects have lost front page status to invalid projects.

This has to stop.

The solution is simple: Invalid projects should be reported and removed.

I do not mean to offend, embarrass, or otherwise cause grief to anyone. Such things are the farthest things from my mind.

Let's fix this!

I'll finish with a quote.

"That is all I have to say."
       -Pedro Sanchez


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#2 2013-03-19 22:33:04

ShadowOfArt
New Scratcher
Registered: 2013-03-14
Posts: 100+

Re: Re_Structure

Wait, so by your logic, we can't use art we made in Photoshop? you also seem to be saying RPs and CCs aren't allowed. o3o They ARE. They have been FEATURED. I also dont see how this is a question...  o3o

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#3 2013-03-19 23:20:46

kayybee
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-12-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: Re_Structure

Look: I don't get why it's so hard. If the Scratch Team says it's fine, then it's fine. It's their website and if you don't like it, leave. Do you go on YouTube just to complain that there's music and not all of it is videos?
The Scratch Team says it's fine so it's fine.

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#4 2013-03-19 23:41:35

PhantomEXE
Scratcher
Registered: 2012-01-27
Posts: 27

Re: Re_Structure

ShadowOfArt wrote:

Wait, so by your logic, we can't use art we made in Photoshop? you also seem to be saying RPs and CCs aren't allowed. o3o They ARE. They have been FEATURED. I also dont see how this is a question...  o3o

Valid project: An interactive story, animation, game, music, or piece of art the contents of which were created entirely using scratch (the program), an interactive story, animation, game, music, or piece of art that is significantly scratch (the program or website) related, or an interactive story, animation, game, music, or piece of art that requires the animating, interactive, and/or programming abilities of scratch (the program) to function properly.

So by my logic, things that are not at their core scratch projects should be posted on the scratch website. You have said that CCs fall under that category, and that they are allowed and that they have been featured.

That's the problem. I think you've been ignoring the big bold print.

Well put. Thank you for strengthening my argument.

Last edited by PhantomEXE (2013-03-19 23:44:27)


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#5 2013-03-19 23:43:56

PhantomEXE
Scratcher
Registered: 2012-01-27
Posts: 27

Re: Re_Structure

kayybee wrote:

Look: I don't get why it's so hard. If the Scratch Team says it's fine, then it's fine. It's their website and if you don't like it, leave. Do you go on YouTube just to complain that there's music and not all of it is videos?
The Scratch Team says it's fine so it's fine.

Define "it".

And the reason that people post music on youtube is so that others can indirectly download it for free. Which is illegal and should stop. Sort of like invalid projects.

Well put. Thank you for strengthening my argument.


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#6 2013-03-20 00:26:33

cheddargirl
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-09-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: Re_Structure

Paddle2See wrote:

The Scratch Team is aware that there are tensions within the community but at this time there are no restrictions on the kinds of projects that are accepted (as long as they are appropriate).  Please do not try and make different segments of the community feel that they are not welcome.

The MIT Media Lab, that created Scratch, is interested in enabling digital creativity in ALL forms - not just programming.  The fact that art with music (and without it) has become so popular is an interesting aspect of the Scratch project that, while unexpected, is certainly welcome. (Quote source)

The above quote can be also be applied to music as well, as we have seen some Scratchers also use Scratch to share music they have created in outside mediums (such as Garageband, for example).

You're quite welcome to flag the "invalid" project if you think they are not allowed here, but it is up for the ST to make the final call. Keep in mind If such projects that you question were "invalid" or "misuse" of Scratch and the Scratch website, they would have been removed already. While some people are using the site in unexpected ways, it is ultimately up for the ST to decide if the activity is okay or not (the website does belong to the ST, after all).


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