Scratch

veggieman001 wrote:

DIY wrote:

part of the first two working bands here

This is actually the third, since my band Quiet Please released their first single yesterday.



Aaaaanyway...
I like "Here Comes the Sun" a lot. It sounds a little funny and robotic in some places, probably due to tempo editing, but it still sounds nice overall.
The guitar in "Yesterday" sounds a little funny too, but I still like it. The vocals and synthesizer are great.

Well, depends on the way you look at it; I was going by inception date and the time by which these singles were completed, so yeah.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. The tempo in "Here Comes the Sun" indeed had to be altered because the sampling rate was 22.05kHz initially and Bandcamp only supports 44.1kHz for some reason. So I had to resample them, etc, thus the perhaps slightly robotic feel.

Glad you like Yesterday (didn't think much of my vocal track myself, neither the synths).

Last edited by DIY (2012-12-25 12:10:05)

technoguyx wrote:

DIY wrote:

The tempo in "Here Comes the Sun" indeed had to be altered because the sampling rate was 22.05kHz initially

Huh, that's a rather odd choice. Were you guys attempting to emulate an old vinyl record quality with this, or something?

Both songs sound great    Here Comes the Sun sounds very close to the original, even the vocals, save for some rhythmic mistakes and voice cracks. Great job on that one.    I like how you sang Yesterday, though you're apparently using a low quality mic. That's a shame, as it could sound much better 

Overall, this double single is great for Walruses' first release. Definitely beats FC's first releases, hah. I appreciate your kind comments about me, as usual. 

When exporting the project initially, it was 22.05kHz, the first time this has ever happened; I suppose some of the tracks in HCtS had different sampling rates and thus the change. Both HCtS and Yesterday are lossless codec (FLACs). Although the SoundCloud one sounds better (because it supports 22050Hz), Bandcamp only supports a limited range of sampling rates, starting from 44.1kHz, so I had to re-export the entire thing.

Glad you like both songs! The guitar was quite off in HCtS, so quite a lot of salvaging had to be done, yet those effects show (would have preferred a more in-sync track). I'm glad to say that I've got a new mic and a whole set of new music-related equipment (gonna be very useful for FC, amongst a guitar effects pedal, better amp, keyboard, and other miscellaneous stuff). However, I'm pleased people appreciate the vocals on Yesterday; they were probably my most rushed performance on any record.

And about the comments on you, no problem mate! 

Agg725 wrote:

The vocals in Here Comes the Sun... I don't know. It just seemed like they could use a little more work. I loved the guitar and the drums and everything, but the vocals kind of ruined it for me.

Good work though! I can't wait to hear the next songs your band creates!

Hmm, it isn't exactly suited for the song, you're right. Despite me pulling off a pretty good harmony vocal track, I didn't think it was too compatible with the lead track.

And about our "next songs", I won't be here for a while (gotta focus on Frozen Coco and my solo music), so I dunno if this will go on. As I said in the notes, who knows where it'll go from here? Thanks for your comments!

jji7skyline wrote:

You should have mixed it 44100hz, anything under that is sub-par quality.

As I've mentioned, that happened when I exported the whole mix so there's no point repeating what's already been said.

And lol, many seem to be satisfied with my mixes, crediting my vocals on Yesterday, the mixing of the synths and the overall product, which were all done by me. If you noticed, the criticisms have been about your guitar (especially in Yesterday though also in Here Comes the Sun) and vocals in the latter. I really think that if you claim this is "a disgrace to The Beatles and their music", it is you who implies that opinion (if at all) to our listeners, not me. So please do not make such a statement again since no one can ever match the brilliance of The Beatles.

Last edited by DIY (2012-12-26 21:25:13)

veggieman001 wrote:

DIY wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

You should have mixed it 44100hz, anything under that is sub-par quality.

As I've mentioned, that happened when I exported the whole mix so there's no point repeating what's already been said.

And lol, many seem to be satisfied with my mixes, crediting my vocals on Yesterday, the mixing of the synths and the overall product, which were all done by me. If you noticed, the criticisms have been about your guitar (especially in Yesterday though also in Here Comes the Sun) and vocals in the latter. I really think that if you claim this is "a disgrace to The Beatles and their music", it is you who implies that opinion (if at all) to our listeners, not me. So please do not make such a statement again since no one can ever match the brilliance of The Beatles.

Hey, hey, what's with all the harsh words? When did anyone say anything about a "disgrace to The Beatles"? 

Umm... yeah... That will be from a Skype chat with jji. I dunno; this came as a real shock to me too (obviously no one recreates the greatness of the Beatles, not on that scale). Given the other feedback, this is clearly not a throw-away piece.

This paragraph from our chat really was uncalled for imo  :

jji7skyline wrote:

I'm sorry if this is offensive or something, but I am only interested in making good music just like you are, and this doesn't sound like good music... it just seems a disgrace to the beatles and to their music.

But for now, I'd prefer if this is left between him and me as I don't want the wrong impression being built of me 'ganging' up or anything. That is not what I want to do, just rectify any faults.

Last edited by DIY (2012-12-26 22:06:28)

veggieman001 wrote:

Considering that was on a Skype chat, maybe it wasn't intended to be public? You should probably respect his privacy, at least. 

Nah, since we are online at the same times a lot of the day, I think it just made more sense for him to raise it up there. It is still feedback just like everything here, and I don't mind it being constructive so long as it does not run down what I've been doing for the past several months (in an 'uncouth' manner so to speak). I could have well finished countless originals for my solo work or FC (which I definitely would have preferred) rather than create this work that is 'a disgrace to the Beatles', if that is what he thinks.

It was a fitting place to raise this up again, seeing as he had just posted yet another criticism (believe me, 90% of the points in that Skype chat weren't compliments). If anyone's respect or integrity is being questioned here, I think it should be me, because clearly such a statement can be rather offensive for the producer. This is not what one works for.

Again, I'll say that I appreciate constructive criticism (like all above), but not those who say such things like it's a disgrace, etc. which I myself and the public know it's not. However, I insist that this doesn't turn into a flame war, but rather let me hear what he has to say.

jji7skyline wrote:

For the record, my recordings were just fine. They weren't close to that in your mix though.

Here is a copy of my draft mix for comparison. Notice this was a 'concept' mix and has 2 vocals in harmony, rather than just one, but also notice how the guitar has much better sound and everything sounds better quality and natural, overall.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86331894/01%20H … %20Sun.mp3

I told you, the two part harmony didn't really sound good at all. And I have reason enough to omit it. It was agreed that I would do Paul's vocals on this release (that includes backing), so the second was left out. However, like I've mentioned in one of the posts above, I do not think the way you sang this was suited for such a harmony vocal track (it sounded extremely unpleasant and even over-powered when mixed). If your point is that yours was more faithful to the original in terms of vocals, Paul's track was not present throughout the song. It sounds more like an alto version of the lead track to me than a replica of the original harmony...

The guitar sound was not messed with at all. I do not see the point you're making. The only edits I did were to rectify some seriously off delay points to make it more in sync. You're only hearing the greater volume in your mix, where the rhythm guitar is mixed more loudly, drowning the bass and drum levels and thus making such claims. Just because something is louder, that doesn't give it a "fuller" sound. If you want, you can import the final mix into any audio editor and turn up its gain; maybe then you'll see.

I do not want to intensify this debate, but rather have you acknowledge what you said about the result being a disgrace to the Beatles, as it certainly is not. We're not recreating the sound of the Beatles (duh) because no one can. Besides, if you called that a disgrace, I really don't know on what ranks your "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" mix lies. Just saying...

jji7skyline wrote:

What about the robotic vocals? Along with the dodgy guitar editing, they both ruin the Here Comes the Sun mix.

Are you still trying to justify your statement about it being a 'disgrace', blah, blah... etc., etc.? Unless it hasn't been drilled in already, that is what my main concern is here. Fact of the matter is that the final mix is more polished than the one you produced. Who said anything about robotic vocals and why do you keep clinging onto it and bringing it up? Is that really the last straw you can chew? If this is an attempt to cover up for the comments about the vocals on that, oh please just drop it. I'm not keen on excuses at all. I'm supposing the alleged 'robotic' sounds suggested by our other listeners is about the moog synthesiser effects, which is indeed intended to make that sound (it is in the synth backing). I did not even touch the vocal tracks in terms of the addition of effects and the such. Same with the guitar except for what I mentioned in my previous post. Dodgy guitar editing my foot; more like dodgy guitar playing, had it not been for the immense cutting and chopping of that track.

And if you really want to question the quality of the re-sampled Bandcamp track, compare it with the SoundCloud one (which is still in 22.05kHz). There is hardly a difference.

It is sad that this has gone thus far without proper reconciliation. If or when you do acknowledge your fault for making such a harsh accusation (or statement rather), that will be when I'll be willing to settle matters.

Last edited by DIY (2012-12-27 11:03:07)

jji7skyline wrote:

I still don't believe that you cannot hear the difference. Maybe your beloved in-ears aren't so good after all.

The vocals in your mix are not good, I don't know what you did with them, but they're just not good.

I understand that the guitar might have been hard to salvage, but that does not justify what you have done with it.

If you think that my statement about it being a disgrace to the Beatles was too harsh, I'd be happy take it back, but only when you realise that your cooperating skills were sub-par.

You should have checked with all members before releasing publicly, and all members should have had a say in the mixing, and the sound of the Yesterday vocals, which are definitely not faithful to the original song.

Hah, perhaps you ought to replace your computer speakers? I'm 200% sure that that is what is making you so laughably root for your own mix, even now. Plus the fact that those are the only grounds on which you can perhaps cover up for your hideous statement. And unlike you, I have a proper home studio set-up; I don't need to rely on just one set of audio equipment when mixing. I deal with several headsets thankyouverymuch.

What do you call this, constructive criticism? When every single comment you throw is running down my work? And at the end, you expect me to take it all in good spirit by saying this:

jji7skyline wrote:

I hope you take everything I said in a spirit of positive thinking, rather than thinking that I am just tearing stuff down.

If I were to quote all that you wrote on that Skype chat, maybe people will come to realise a different perspective of you. Cutting the guitar track would be pointless if the result didn't turn out better. Last thing I'd do is to ruin the mix. I'll repeat myself for your benefit, as you seem to have 'conveniently' over-looked this:

DIY wrote:

I did not even touch the vocal tracks in terms of the addition of effects and the such. Same with the guitar except for what I mentioned in my previous post.

And I believe I've addressed the bit about cooperation in our chat too. It is not my fault that you were not online a single bit for quite a  few days prior to the release, even when you jolly well knew the release date. It is not my fault that not a single member of the band was online at the same time in the run-up to the release either. A deadline is a deadline. Don't go back on old points. This does no justice to your statement either.

And the vocals on Yesterday: Is running down my track supposed to be another way of covering up the comments about your vocal? I don't want to sound egocentric here, but from the feedback received, I don't see how you can pride your performance and ground mine. And who said anything about me trying to be 'faithful' to the original? If you want to be successful, you cannot follow in someone's footsteps, it never works out. You've got to be original, so obviously I'll have my own styles.

I'll be glad to be off of this workload if one of my own team players is going to treat my months of production no better than a pile of garbage. Maybe if you come to realise the scale of such an off-throwing insult to a producer, I will reconsider my temporary/permanent adjourning from the band. Mind you, I'm not all emotional and quitting because of this, but because I need to find time for my other music (which is clearly better loved). After all, I'm no novice at the game; I have plenty of music experience, so I do not think that is questionable. Although this has been rather long, I believe I've addressed all the points I wanted, to make this very clear: If you want to be a good critic, out-right condemning is most certainly not the way to go, because we all know this is more than that, though not close to the magic of the Fab Four.

MrMokey wrote:

Feedback:

I think that the guitar in 'Here Comes the Sun' is panned a bit far to the left. It could sound better a bit more centered. Also the vocals seem to be clipping a bit and making it sound a bit fuzzy but that might just be for the effect.

For Yesterday the guitar doesn't sound that natural imo, it sort of sound like my guitar VST. I enjoy the little giggle at 3:45 in the set, other than that it sounds pretty good.

I also was a bit confused that the description of the set is pretty much just a huge advertisement for Frozen Coco and DIY

The Here Comes the Sun guitar is panned to the left in the original as well (I used the real mixing values); maybe it's just the overall different tone of the mix that doesn't make it go all too well panned that way.

No VSTs were used for the guitar; it's the natural guitar sound, so it wasn't nice for the song. I'm not sure what you mean by the giggle?

And look, my past music venture is something I can really relate to. It's not like I'm saying: Here's Light Amidst the Fog [link] or anything. Being producer, it helps to have this past experience. Besides, there's not much to write for a band that has just started out.

Thanks for the feedback anyway.

PonyvilleSlugger wrote:

I think the vocals are a little too harsh, they're not as soft as what the guitar builds it up to be at the start.

Did you check Yesterday as well? You seem to only have checked the first song. 

DIY wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

I still don't believe that you cannot hear the difference. Maybe your beloved in-ears aren't so good after all.

The vocals in your mix are not good, I don't know what you did with them, but they're just not good.

I understand that the guitar might have been hard to salvage, but that does not justify what you have done with it.

If you think that my statement about it being a disgrace to the Beatles was too harsh, I'd be happy take it back, but only when you realise that your cooperating skills were sub-par.

You should have checked with all members before releasing publicly, and all members should have had a say in the mixing, and the sound of the Yesterday vocals, which are definitely not faithful to the original song.

Hah, perhaps you ought to replace your computer speakers? I'm 200% sure that that is what is making you so laughably root for your own mix, even now. Plus the fact that those are the only grounds on which you can perhaps cover up for your hideous statement. And unlike you, I have a proper home studio set-up; I don't need to rely on just one set of audio equipment when mixing. I deal with several headsets thankyouverymuch.

What do you call this, constructive criticism? When every single comment you throw is running down my work? And at the end, you expect me to take it all in good spirit by saying this:

jji7skyline wrote:

I hope you take everything I said in a spirit of positive thinking, rather than thinking that I am just tearing stuff down.

If I were to quote all that you wrote on that Skype chat, maybe people will come to realise a different perspective of you. Cutting the guitar track would be pointless if the result didn't turn out better. Last thing I'd do is to ruin the mix. I'll repeat myself for your benefit, as you seem to have 'conveniently' over-looked this:

DIY wrote:

I did not even touch the vocal tracks in terms of the addition of effects and the such. Same with the guitar except for what I mentioned in my previous post.

And I believe I've addressed the bit about cooperation in our chat too. It is not my fault that you were not online a single bit for quite a  few days prior to the release, even when you jolly well knew the release date. It is not my fault that not a single member of the band was online at the same time in the run-up to the release either. A deadline is a deadline. Don't go back on old points. This does no justice to your statement either.

this is the most amazing thread since "santa clause conquers the martians"