Scratch

Generation: Cities? not sure really, other than we need to sort out game-play. I think what needs sorting is scenarios. Without goals, the player rarely used any of the buildings, and I bet that if we used that exact same game (don't worry I'm not, this is just theoretical) but added a real campaign mode to it instead of just the freedom mode G:4000 would be epic.

In 'help with scripts' I did a HUGE guide on how to create tycoon games, you have to read it! whilst you're reading i'll be off to bed- it's five to eleven here in england! night!

Last edited by Borrego6165 (2012-09-18 17:56:09)

Guys, can I work with you?  This is the only game type I haven't made.

Well it was originally goanna be just a partnership-type collaboration but I suppose you could join, one thing we are not doing is labelling each other as programmer, graphics designer ect.

I've never been in a successful collaboration before (might be partly my fault    ) and Mist Studios wasn't the smoothest ride either, so if we rely on people with specific jobs then all we're going to do is wait for people.

Hence why I think I should make a modular system. I will create a list of modules with little tasks in them, and every-time you come online you complete those tasks, upload the work and then you can go offline. It means we can come on any-time we like and we'll get the work done.

I tried this with Mist Studios but because it was one huge list and not split up into modules it did not work. I'll see what I can come up with.

hmmm... let's agree on buildings. You see, everything is about game-play, so if we come up with generic buildings then the scenarios will be boring, but if we create fun buildings that manipulate each other then it will make the game interesting.

I actually started making a game called "Generation: 4000 Across the Globe' but the issue was that when I looked back at G:3000, I realised that I still had not nailed the basic city building engine yet, so it would be stupid to try and make scenarios and such when I couldn't even make a basic freedom mode.

So, G:4000 became the game as you know it to be, and I still have some of the files from the original 'Across the Globe' beta. Basically, you had a huge campaign mode, and you travelled across 5 countries (Spain, France, China, Ireland and Egypt) to complete goals. Here's where things differ from previous entries in the Generation:X series.

There is less focus on the number of buildings and more on each functionality, so instead of the planned 100 buildings for Generation: Cities, 'Across the Globe' would have about 40, but each would have a huge role in game-play and helping you towards your goal.

So, perhaps what might be wise is if we make Generation: Cities, then as a sequel we expand it to Generation: Global. You see, you two need to get used to making large-scale city builders and you need to learn about the factors (pollution, health, traffic), the extras (advisor, music playlist, time change/weather change) the build engine that detects where the player places and destroys buildings. Plus, I'm also planning on having adjustable landscape heights, which is simple, but if you don't know the basics then you'll be confused by how height works and how it can be detected by the game.

Once we can make a generic city game with a basic freedom mode (plus improvements of course to G:4000) I think we can make G:Global the greatest tycoon in scratch history, only you can have over 100 buildings rather then 40.

I'll see what you think, I have a list of buildings for both games, but remember that if you decided you wanna make G:Global first, we can't go back to G:Cities because it'll sound much smaller, when the sequels should get more epic.

Last edited by Borrego6165 (2012-09-19 13:22:17)

I just had an idea; why not make the game bilingual? I know enough Spanish that, with some help from my Spanish teacher, I could make a simple translation of the game into Spanish, and by the time Scratch 2.0 comes out, I would know even more Spanish. Any ideas on this?

Last edited by ErnieParke (2012-09-19 16:10:35)

Borrego6165 wrote:

ErnieParke wrote:

I just had an idea; why not make the game bilingual? I know enough Spanish that, with some help from my Spanish teacher, I could make a simple translation of the game into Spanish, and by the time Scratch 2.0 comes out, I would know even more Spanish. Any ideas on this?

don't forget S2 is coming out this autumn! (and it said early autumn too!)
[I heard that it was coming by the end of the year. We'll see.]

about your comments, each country had about 8 levels each, and if we decide to use a similar engine to G:4000 everything would be saved as numbers, except there would be a lot more numbers because of the height etcetera. After giving it some thought, maybe we should just get straight on with G:Global and I'll sort out the engine, as I'm goanna go for trimetric instead of isometric so it's goanna get very complicated!
[Could you define trimetric for me? I can already see that it deals with 3 something. Anyway, if we're going straight to G: Global, then I'll need to look at your projects and their code. I'll need some time for that.]

Also, bilingual would be cool except we'd need space for all of the different texts, plus interfaces will need different sizes to fit the texts in so it'd be more of a hassle than a positive, and English is a well taught language in Spain anyway, I know because my Dad's side of the family (only my Dad moved to England) mostly know English and they've never even been here!
[Okay, I was thinking that you might say that.]

Also, here's the list for G:Global!
[   It's very long…]

KEY
*R                   Must be researched
*I *S *C *F *E     Only available in Ireland, Spain, China, France or Egypt

Just so you know, G:4001 uses four sprites to stamp the terrain, one at each time of day. If we need 5 locations, we will need 5X4 (20) sprites to fit all of the buildings. We cannot just fit them into one sprite or just one for each day because there will be too many costumes.
[Now that I look at the bottom, I agree, we will need quite a few sprite, but why would we need 20 sprites? Why not the 4 or 5 used in G: 40001? Will we be making differentt tiles for each country?]

Total: 70 tile types

LANDSCAPE (19)
Flat
Slope 1
2
3
4
Hill Corner 1
2
3
4
River (Mud for Egypt)
Beach 1
2
3
4
River Corner 1
2
3
4
Trees

ZONES (9)
LowRes
MedRes *R
HghRes *R
LowCom
MedCom *R
HghCom *R
LowInd
MedInd *R
HghInd *4 (???)
[What do these stand for? I understand Medlnd, Lowlnd and Hghlnd, but not LowCom and the others.]

UTILITIES (9)
Coal Power
Oil Power *E
Solar Power *S *E
Nuclear Power *R *C
Fusion Power *R *C
Sml Pump
Lrg Pump *R
Landfill
Incinerator *R

KEY (Reminder)
*R                   Must be researched
*I *S *C *F *E     Only available in Ireland, Spain, China, France or Egypt

TRANSPORT (9)
Streets
-Straight 1
-Straight 2
-Bend 1
-2
-3
-4
-Junction
Roads
-Straight 1
-Straight 2
-Bend 1
-2
-3
-4
-Junction
Avenues
-Straight 1
-Straight 2
-Bend 1
-2
-3
-4
-Junction
Highways
-Straight 1
-Straight 2
-Bend 1
-2
-3
-4
-Junction
Bus Station
Train Station *R
Muncipal Airport *R
International Airport *R
Space Port *R (allows you to mine resources from space to sell)

KEY (Reminder)
*R                   Must be researched
*I *S *C *F *E     Only available in Ireland, Spain, China, France or Egypt

SERVICES (9)
Sml School
Lrg School *R
Clinic
Infirmary *R
District Hospital *R *F
Sml Fire
Lrg Fire *R
Sml Police
Lrg Police *R

RECREATION (9)
Sml Park
Med Park
Lrg Park *R
Walkway 1
Walkway 2
Playing Fields *R
Public Gardens *R
Outdoor Market *R
Mall *R

KEY (Reminder)
*R                   Must be researched
*I *S *C *F *E     Only available in Ireland, Spain, China, France or Egypt

TOURISM (14)
B&B *I
Camp Site *I *R
Low Budget Hotel *C *F
Sml Resort *S *E
Lrg Resort *S *E *R
Grand Hotel *F **C R
Chateau *F *R
Traditional Pub *I
Historical Museum *I *E
Art Gallery *F
Aquarium *S *F
Splash Park *S *E *R
Zoo *R
Theme Park *R

GOVERNMENT (1)
Research Centre *R
[Why not add one more government building?]

My comments are above ^^.

Edit: Updated comments.

Last edited by ErnieParke (2012-09-19 18:13:23)

Borrego6165 wrote:

1) Trimetric is the angle used in Sim City 4, instead of Isometric.
[I've never played Sim City 4 before or any Sim City.]
2) I'll teach you everything about G:Global so don't worry!
3) It's an epic game so it needs to be epically long!
[Okay.]
4) There are four times of day- sunrise, midday, sunset and night. I presumed we were having different graphics for each of the five countries, resulting in the 4 times multiplied by the 5 countries. We could try to fit all 280 costumes into each day (amounting up to 1120 costumes) but I think the extra sprites would make it less overwhelming. Plus, not all of the objects need to be on each costume, as not every object is available in each place.
[We're going to have seperate costumes for different times? Why not just use the brightness effect?]
5) Residential, Commercial and Industrial zones.
[Oh…]
6) Ran out of government building ideas! We might as well add five more to bring the total up to 75 buildings!
[I just did that.  ]

Comments above and below.

I was thinking that having only 1 research center wouldn't be exciting, so why not have a Rec (Recreational) RC (Research Center), a Building RC and a General RC?

Also, why can't we have a government jail to help keep down crime?

And how about a small and large Info./Tourist Center?

Last edited by ErnieParke (2012-09-19 18:43:05)

Borrego6165 wrote:

ErnieParke wrote:

Borrego6165 wrote:

1) Trimetric is the angle used in Sim City 4, instead of Isometric.
[I've never played Sim City 4 before or any Sim City.]
2) I'll teach you everything about G:Global so don't worry!
3) It's an epic game so it needs to be epically long!
[Okay.]
4) There are four times of day- sunrise, midday, sunset and night. I presumed we were having different graphics for each of the five countries, resulting in the 4 times multiplied by the 5 countries. We could try to fit all 280 costumes into each day (amounting up to 1120 costumes) but I think the extra sprites would make it less overwhelming. Plus, not all of the objects need to be on each costume, as not every object is available in each place.
[We're going to have seperate costumes for different times? Why not just use the brightness effect?]
5) Residential, Commercial and Industrial zones.
[Oh…]
6) Ran out of government building ideas! We might as well add five more to bring the total up to 75 buildings!
[I just did that.  ]

Comments above and below.

I was thinking that having only 1 research center wouldn't be exciting, so why not have a Rec (Recreational) RC (Research Center), a Building RC and a General RC?

Also, why can't we have a government jail to help keep down crime?

And how about a small and large Info./Tourist Center?

look up Sim City 4 on google images! Also, NEVER use the brightness effect, it heavily slows down the game. Plus, it looks terrible. In G:4001, not only does the brightness change on each costume, but as well the positions of the shadows change too.On top of that, at night not only do they blacken out, but lights from windows have to be drawn on as well.
[I only thought of half of those, plus I never knew that the brightness effect slows down a game. As the saying goes, "You learn something new every day!"]

Also, a government jail could work but I think instead of having loads of research centres you could just have 1 and we think of other government buildings.
[We wouldn't have loads of research cenetrs. We would only have 3.]

If you'd have played any simcity game you'd of known we could have used toxic waste dumps, casinos and more to allow the player to get extra money per month.
[And amusement parks, haunted houses, military bases, green houses, race tracks, small and big factories, ect...]

also, I don't think it will be possible to program a tourist centre, I really don't know what effects it would have other then being a 'pretty building'
[A tourist center wouldn'y be useless because it would help to increase tourist spending because tourists now know where to go if they want to eat and they don't have to walk acroos half the city to find a monument. They would also be happier and therefore would tell there friends about the city, who would later come and spend their money.]

My comments are above ^^.

Last edited by ErnieParke (2012-09-20 15:14:12)

Borrego6165 wrote:

the tourists centre would over-complicate things. You see, if tourist interest is increased by 20% when building the centre, (so for example from 100 to 120) then you build a theme park to increase it by 50 then what you'd have to do is subtract the 20% (to get 100) then add the 50 from the theme park then add 20% of the new total to that number (which would be 180).
[Actually, you don't have to subtract the 20%. Increasing 120% by 50% would still get you 180%, but other than that, I understand.]

one rule i have always had is to keep things simple and then complicate things as you go along, so with pollution for example it uses a single variable based on the number of factories and parks you have.
[It's also been a rule that I've somewhat followed, though I feel like I'm underestimating the complexity of G:4000.]

one huge issue is that because you haven't played any sim city games it's goanna be hard for you to understand how this game will work, so you'll have to read this:
[I've seen my friend play it once on his mobile device, but that was about it.]

(I was goanna ask you to read the whole wiki page but I cut it down a LOT for you    )
[Sigh or relief…]

By the way, this also highlights some of the cool features I think we should try to include!

GENERAL
The player (acting as mayor) is given a blank map to start with, and must expand their city with the budget they have. As the city matures, the player may get to place government and other special buildings (such as a mayor's house or courthouse), depending on how large their city is. The player must supply services to their citizens. These include health, education, safety, parks and leisure. These come in the form of different buildings, where each building covers a circular "range" of service. Inadequate funding of these services can lead to strikes.
Cities must also provide basic utilities, namely electricity, water and (in SimCity 3000 and SimCity 4) waste management.

ZONES
The player must define zones, each having limits on the kind of development that can occur there. Development of the zones is not performed directly by the player, but happens when certain conditions are met, such as power supply, adequate transport links or acceptable tax level. The residential zones, in green, provide housing for Sims; the commercial zones, in blue, provide shops and offices; and the industrial zones, in yellow, provide factories, laboratories and farms. There are three different densities (two for SimCity 2000) in the game: low density for small buildings, medium density for low to mid-sized buildings, and high density for anything up to large tower blocks.

In G:4000 citizens moved in regardless of this, but I'm sure it would be cool if citizens moved in and out if zones were not handled properly.
[Or people could move if there wasn't enough work, entertainment, ect.. of if there was a disease in the area.]

MONEY
The primary source of income is taxation

Legalizing gambling and placing certain "special" buildings (such as military bases or federal prisons) can generate income as well. The player may also make deals with neighbouring cities to sell or buy services, as long as a connection is made to the neighbor for that service
[I was just thinking, this would be a nice feature to add in G: Global, though different trade options should be available for different countries.]

BUILDINGS
types of facility included prisons, schools, libraries, museums, marinas, zoos, stadiums, hospitals

Players could build highways, roads, bus depots, railway tracks, subways, train depots and zone land for seaports and airports. There are a total of nine varieties of power plants in SC2K, including coal, natural gas, wind turbines, hydroelectric dams (which can only be placed on waterfall tiles) and the futuristic fusion power and satellite microwave plant.

In addition to their limited life span, power plants are now vulnerable to decreasing maximum output at a constant rate after they have gone through about three quarters of their life span.
[Around what is the deterioration rate?]

I also recommend that you watch some clips of Sim City from You Tube if you cannot get a copy of the game itself, (preferably Sim City 4 Deluxe/ Rush Hour) because if you have no experience with even playing city games (seen as City Tycoon was a business game and not really a city-simulator) then you won't get what I'm after.
[I will, though not today because I'm busy.]

Comments are above and below.

City Tycoon 2 will have more factors in it, though it has a lot of the same features as City Tycoon. If I remember correctly, the most realistic Tycoon I've ever played was Cityville (on FB) and that only included food, business and products with a generalized view on population and  happiness.

Just to let you know, I might not be able to post on Scratch later today due to homework…

Last edited by ErnieParke (2012-09-20 17:10:55)

ErnieParke's Reply wrote:

[Actually, you don't have to subtract the 20%. Increasing 120% by 50% would still get you 180%, but other than that, I understand.]

The theme park increases it by 50 not 50%, so:
Start Amount = 100
Multiplied by 120 (20%) = 120.
Then you add 50 (the theme park is not in percentages) which would get you 170 and not 180.

[It's also been a rule that I've somewhat followed, though I feel like I'm underestimating the complexity of G:4000.]
I've never understood why people never know how complex it is, and believe me if you'd have seen the tornado and UFO scripts from G:3000 you would have fainted!

[I've seen my friend play it once on his mobile device, but that was about it.]
Tut tut tut

[Or people could move if there wasn't enough work, entertainment, ect.. of if there was a disease in the area.]
Well they were factors in SimCity too, except things like entertainment came under Land Value.

[I was just thinking, this would be a nice feature to add in G: Global, though different trade options should be available for different countries.]


[Around what is the deterioration rate?]
Well, the player reads the life span in a query window (let's say 20 years) and after about 18 years the capacity starts to fall, and if the player leaves the power plant either too long after it's expiration date or they try to make it produce too much power, it will explode.

[I will, though not today because I'm busy.]
Don't worry

[City Tycoon 2 will have more factors in it, though it has a lot of the same features as City Tycoon. If I remember correctly, the most realistic Tycoon I've ever played was Cityville (on FB) and that only included food, business and products with a generalized view on population and  happiness.]
Well, if you keep yours as as tycoon and keep away from simulators, then you'll find doing both more fun. If you're practically making the same game twice it will get boring after a while.

Just to let you know, I might not be able to post on Scratch later today due to homework…

Firedrake969's Reply wrote:

Minor? Don't worry, I'll teach you how to do a lot of things! It's mainly planning we need now, such as a list of scenarios with objects, a list of 'disasters' to make the scenarios harder among many other things, so to anyone reading this don't just come up with ideas for those and wait for me to suggest more things, if you know we need to sort something out then go ahead and plan it! 

ErnieParke wrote:

So, we'll be having 8 levels per Country.

I decided to make a list of scenarios (Feel free to fill it in.):

Countries: Spain, France, China, Ireland and Egypt

Country: Spain
Difficulty: Super Easy

Level 1: Regular
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8: A celebrit is visiting town today and you have to pay for the celebrations, except someone messed up and you have a lot less time then usual to find funds.

Country: Ireland
Difficulty: Hard

Level 1: Regular
Level 2:
Level 3: News of a potatoe disease has reached your city and people start to leave.
Level 4:
Level 5: The new potatoe disease has reached the city that you're at and people are very depressed, and you also face a budget cut.
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8:

Country: China
Difficulty: Easy

Level 1: Regular
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5: Due to an earthquake nearby, people have become sad and are spending a lot less money then usual.
Level 6:
Level 7: The ruptured nuclear power plant has been sealed and things look good for now, but lots of people are still fleeing your city.
Level 8: The seal on the nuclear power plant bursts and you have only a limited amount of time to make as much money as you can.

Country: Egypt
Difficulty: Super Hard

Level 1: You start off with a plentiful budget, but some of your supplies got lost, so now you have to make up for that short fall.
Level 2: Your business gets off to a good start, but then your co-CEO dies and you have to pay for his expensive funeral.
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6: Due to droughts, the cost of water has gone up and you need to raise a lot more money then usual and the price of food also has gone up.
Level 7:
Level 8:

Country: France
Difficulty: Medium

Level 1:
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8: You face major budget cuts due to the economic struggles of France and you need to raise enough money to host a feast for the Queen.

Now here's why you need SIm City experience. Yes these would suit tycoon games, but not a city game. Since when does a Mayor work along side a co-CEO? And how does people spending less money in shops affect the taxation amount, when it's a fixed rate every month? Plus, I was planning on having the player move between countries back and forth, to add variety and to keep the game fresh. Also, in Egypt when you talk about the price of water and food going up, the government would not pay for that it would be the businesses who would lose out.

However, don't be discouraged, it's just that I'm still not sure if you understand that this is not a tycoon, but they would certainly fit your tycoon game! Just try not to include countries, otherwise it will be too similar to this.

We'll get there in the end don't worry! Hmmm... I'm just trying to work out what you could do without any simulator experience. I should have asked you to put it on your CV whether or not you had played Sim City or City Life or Cities XL or Lin City!