Scratch

jvvg wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

jvvg wrote:

1. I'm recommending and saying saying it IS better to go with Windows, because it has much better tools for developing software.
2. Windows also has a similar feature, called the process list, and it is a lot more detailed and lets you quit background tools as well.

You can't develop for OSX or iOS in Windows, your argument is invalid. Buy a MacBook and boot camp Windows.

What do you mean my argument is invalid? In Windows, I can name over 50 developer tools off the top of my head, when I can't even name 5 for Mac. I also don't care about developing for platforms I don't use (I think a Windows user wouldn't want to develop for Mac OS).
Also, Windows computers have a tendency to be a lot cheaper (I got my awesome laptop new for $400, while a new MacBook costs over $1000).

Perhaps not for a hobbyist programmer, but for a professional selling (or even just distributing to the largest number of users) software, you would want to reach as many platforms as possible.

jvvg wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

jvvg wrote:

What do you mean my argument is invalid? In Windows, I can name over 50 developer tools off the top of my head, when I can't even name 5 for Mac. I also don't care about developing for platforms I don't use (I think a Windows user wouldn't want to develop for Mac OS).
Also, Windows computers have a tendency to be a lot cheaper (I got my awesome laptop new for $400, while a new MacBook costs over $1000).

Perhaps not for a hobbyist programmer, but for a professional selling (or even just distributing to the largest number of users) software, you would want to reach as many platforms as possible.

In that case, you should develop in Java, as it is platform-independent. That's why I'm learning it.

^^^^^ this

But even then, you'll run into bugs because Apple sucks and has their own Java implementation that has more problems.

jji7skyline wrote:

Hey, all this stuff about Mac having less apps and development tools and stuff is completely invalid. Mac has all the tools required, and even has an official coding IDE.

Does Windows have that? No. Not unless you can call Notepad an IDE, which it isn't.

And I've never had any problems whatsoever with the Mac Java, whereas I often get problems with Java 6 and 7 for Windows.

As for price, Macs and PCs usually have around $400 difference if you choose the cheapest laptop with the same specs as a Macbook. However, consider this. Macs have a much more durable case, and better speakers. They are lighter and thinner. They have superior displays. If you try and get a PC with that kind of specs, you're looking at around the same price range as a Macbook.

So, if you want a really budget computer, you're stuck with a PC, but if you want a quality product, you have the choice of both. The prices are the same.

Maybe even the Mac has an advantage because it comes with OSX.

Mac also has an advantage because for a non-computerknowing person, it's very easy to get a virus on a windows computer. As with macs, they automatically block it if the computer detects a virus (but sometimes it goes a little overboard with it).

jji7skyline wrote:

TorbyFork234 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

Hey, all this stuff about Mac having less apps and development tools and stuff is completely invalid. Mac has all the tools required, and even has an official coding IDE.

Does Windows have that? No. Not unless you can call Notepad an IDE, which it isn't.

And I've never had any problems whatsoever with the Mac Java, whereas I often get problems with Java 6 and 7 for Windows.

As for price, Macs and PCs usually have around $400 difference if you choose the cheapest laptop with the same specs as a Macbook. However, consider this. Macs have a much more durable case, and better speakers. They are lighter and thinner. They have superior displays. If you try and get a PC with that kind of specs, you're looking at around the same price range as a Macbook.

So, if you want a really budget computer, you're stuck with a PC, but if you want a quality product, you have the choice of both. The prices are the same.

Maybe even the Mac has an advantage because it comes with OSX.

Mac also has an advantage because for a non-computerknowing person, it's very easy to get a virus on a windows computer. As with macs, they automatically block it if the computer detects a virus (but sometimes it goes a little overboard with it).

Well, technically there are no Mac viruses...

Unless you run Bootcamp 

Ahem

16Skittles wrote:

jvvg wrote:

TorbyFork234 wrote:

1. If you're a programmer, I'd recommend (but not saying it's better) to stay with mac. My father is a programmer, and his company gets him the best macbook possible.
2. And again, I'm recommending it due to the all important force quit feature. Many times with scratch it glitched up on me and I had to force quit it. I couldn't have done that with windows.

1. I'm recommending and saying saying it IS better to go with Windows, because it has much better tools for developing software.
2. Windows also has a similar feature, called the process list, and it is a lot more detailed and lets you quit background tools as well.

You can't develop for OSX or iOS in Windows, your argument is invalid. Buy a MacBook and boot camp Windows.

Yuck, there goes Apple again.

jvvg wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

jvvg wrote:

1. I'm recommending and saying saying it IS better to go with Windows, because it has much better tools for developing software.
2. Windows also has a similar feature, called the process list, and it is a lot more detailed and lets you quit background tools as well.

You can't develop for OSX or iOS in Windows, your argument is invalid. Buy a MacBook and boot camp Windows.

What do you mean my argument is invalid? In Windows, I can name over 50 developer tools off the top of my head, when I can't even name 5 for Mac. I also don't care about developing for platforms I don't use (I think a Windows user wouldn't want to develop for Mac OS).
Also, Windows computers have a tendency to be a lot cheaper (I got my awesome laptop new for $400, while a new MacBook costs over $1000).

Ever heard of cross-platform compiling?
Of course you have to use the right tool but if you do it can potentially more than double your programming efforts.

Last edited by slinger (2012-06-13 07:27:57)

sonicfan12p wrote:

I personally, have a PC. I like it better, but I've never really used a Mac to a great extent, I used it a couple times, liked what I already had better, and stuck with it.

jji7skyline wrote:

Visual studio is paid software, unless you use the Lite versions. XCode is free and open-source.

I still love how you keep insisting that Apple loves open source when they are notorious for restricting what their users can do. E.g iOS, only installing on Apple hardware, etc.

16Skittles wrote:

jvvg wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

You can't develop for OSX or iOS in Windows, your argument is invalid. Buy a MacBook and boot camp Windows.

What do you mean my argument is invalid? In Windows, I can name over 50 developer tools off the top of my head, when I can't even name 5 for Mac. I also don't care about developing for platforms I don't use (I think a Windows user wouldn't want to develop for Mac OS).
Also, Windows computers have a tendency to be a lot cheaper (I got my awesome laptop new for $400, while a new MacBook costs over $1000).

Perhaps not for a hobbyist programmer, but for a professional selling (or even just distributing to the largest number of users) software, you would want to reach as many platforms as possible.

Either way, Cook has allowed OS X VMs on Windows.

@jvvg: Also that.  Macs actually have WORSE security than Windows because Apple makes their own version of Java.  The Flashback trojan was a big virus that attacked many Macs.  It could have attacked Windows, too, but Oracle makes that version, and they fixed the security hole before it could be exploited.  Apple?  Not so much.  Several weeks passed before the problem was fixed on the OS X Java player, by which time thousands to millions of Macs were already infected.

And furthermore, you know Apple's first response to Mac Defender was denying that any malware for OS X could possibly exist?

Apple's most powerful weapon against Microsoft was Steve Jobs.  Windows simply survived because it was Windows.  Steve Jobs is no longer running Apple, but Windows is still here.

WINDOWS FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

jji7skyline wrote:

Well, they don't have viruses, but they do have malware. Software updates made it all good though.

According to Wikipedia, malware is any type of malicious software, including viruses, trojans, spyware, adware, and others.

777w wrote:

northmeister wrote:

slinger wrote:

northmeister wrote:

Woah, hang on. Why is it funny? Mac's look the best by far and they have better graphics.

End of.

Why do people think that graphics are the only thing that make computers?
Seriously, people use different OSs for different purposes.

I know, but veggie said it was funny that jji said that mac's were aesthetically pleasing :3

no, the funny part was that he said "atheistically pleasing" rather than "aesthetically pleasing"

Now i get it. 

veggieman001 wrote:

jvvg wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

Perhaps not for a hobbyist programmer, but for a professional selling (or even just distributing to the largest number of users) software, you would want to reach as many platforms as possible.

In that case, you should develop in Java, as it is platform-independent. That's why I'm learning it.

^^^^^ this

But even then, you'll run into bugs because Apple sucks and has their own Java implementation that has more problems.

That's why you should do web apps. You don't need to download anything except a modern web browser. :3

@web programmers: yeah have a good time accessing the file system and other high level  functions of the device.

16Skittles wrote:

@web programmers: yeah have a good time accessing the file system and other high level  functions of the device.

In the occasional event that you need to access the file system, the browser provides a file manager. That should be good for most programs. Sending an Ajax request to a PHP file that uses scandir() could provide a more GUI-ish file browser. What other high-level functions are you thinking of?

Last edited by scimonster (2012-06-13 14:52:52)