Scratch

banana500 wrote:

jukyter wrote:

banana500 wrote:

Then read The Giver. You won't regret it, trust me. 

Animal Farm isn't dystopian, I have to agree. It's an allegory. Also, the one about everyone under the sea; you're talking about Dark Life, right?

Yes, that's it! I'm glad I got it for free, because to be honest, it wasn't the best.

I got it at my school book fair, and I liked it.

Yeah, it was quite good, but I doubt I would've bought it (I rarely buy books, opting instead to go to the library). And like I said, it had an interesting concept but I found the ending a bit cliche.

Last edited by jukyter (2012-05-28 15:30:19)

Garr8 wrote:

would star wars be dystopian because it involves rebels battling an empire

No.
The Empire functions and a lot of people are happy under it, some people just don't like it.

Garr8 wrote:

jukyter wrote:

banana500 wrote:

I got it at my school book fair, and I liked it.

Yeah, it was quite good, but I doubt I would've bought it (I rarely buy books, opting instead to go to the library). And like I said, it had an interesting concept but I found the ending a bit cliche.

Remember when the families were limited on the number of children they could have?
And Jonas had that movie where his father killed a child, that is abortion >

I thought the name of the place and the everday terms in the book were generic, i read a similar book that did the same.

What's wrong with abortion?
Anyway, no I don't remember that part. It was 2010 when I read it; and though I remember the general idea of pretty much every book I've read, I can never remember many nuances.

scmb1 wrote:

banana500 wrote:

jukyter wrote:

I really want to read the Giver. Also, I don't consider Animal Farm a dystopia because would you consider USSR a dystopia? Terrible, yes (communism done badly), a dystopia, no.
I've read all the Hunger Games novels, Animal Farm, this one about everyone living under the sea (that was more spacious), Pretties (reading at the moment-I'm a bit lost though) and I started reading 1984 but it got lost in my library list (tends to be 10-20-what? Don't look at me like that!).

Then read The Giver. You won't regret it, trust me. 

Animal Farm isn't dystopian, I have to agree. It's an allegory. Also, the one about everyone under the sea; you're talking about Dark Life, right?

Why can't Animal Farm be both allegorical and dystopian? Can't dystopian societies exist in real life?

Well, no. Again, do you consider the USSR a dystopia?

jukyter wrote:

scmb1 wrote:

banana500 wrote:

Then read The Giver. You won't regret it, trust me. 

Animal Farm isn't dystopian, I have to agree. It's an allegory. Also, the one about everyone under the sea; you're talking about Dark Life, right?

Why can't Animal Farm be both allegorical and dystopian? Can't dystopian societies exist in real life?

Well, no. Again, do you consider the USSR a dystopia?

A quick Google search shows that the Internet is just as torn about Animal Farm's dystopian status as we are. I'm personally not sure, but I think dystopia shouldn't be ruled out just because it is allegorical.

I don't feel like I'm authorized to declare the Soviet Union a dystopia or not a dystopia, since I didn't live there and all. However, theoretically speaking, couldn't a dystopian
society exist in real life? I always thought one of the purposes of dystopian fiction was to warn us that the stuff in it could happen, if we're not careful-- if dystopias can't exist, what is the point of dystopian novels?

Also, out of curiosity, do you consider Lord of the Flies to be dystopian? It's allegorical as well.

Last edited by scmb1 (2012-05-28 18:39:58)

slapshot55 wrote:

Wickimen wrote:

My parents are really strict
Which is why I conveniently forgot to tell them about borrowing Brave New World

nice, fight the man!

slapshot55 wrote:

lord of the flies isnt dystopian

Why not? I kind of agree with you, but I'm just wondering how you would justify it. 

jji7skyline wrote:

Dystopian books tend to depress me :l

Yeah, me to.  I think that's what they're supposed to do.

scmb1 wrote:

jukyter wrote:

scmb1 wrote:

Why can't Animal Farm be both allegorical and dystopian? Can't dystopian societies exist in real life?

Well, no. Again, do you consider the USSR a dystopia?

A quick Google search shows that the Internet is just as torn about Animal Farm's dystopian status as we are. I'm personally not sure, but I think dystopia shouldn't be ruled out just because it is allegorical.

I don't feel like I'm authorized to declare the Soviet Union a dystopia or not a dystopia, since I didn't live there and all. However, theoretically speaking, couldn't a dystopian
society exist in real life? I always thought one of the purposes of dystopian fiction was to warn us that the stuff in it could happen, if we're not careful-- if dystopias can't exist, what is the point of dystopian novels?

Also, out of curiosity, do you consider Lord of the Flies to be dystopian? It's allegorical as well.

I don't consider LotF to be dystopian because there's no system.
I also think a dystopia can't exist in real life because the definition includes 'where everything is bad' according to Google, and I can't bear to think that could happen in real life. Most things are bad, yes, but everything? No.

slapshot55 wrote:

lord of the flies isnt dystopian

Yes, it kind of is.

scmb1 wrote:

jukyter wrote:

scmb1 wrote:

A quick Google search shows that the Internet is just as torn about Animal Farm's dystopian status as we are. I'm personally not sure, but I think dystopia shouldn't be ruled out just because it is allegorical.

I don't feel like I'm authorized to declare the Soviet Union a dystopia or not a dystopia, since I didn't live there and all. However, theoretically speaking, couldn't a dystopian
society exist in real life? I always thought one of the purposes of dystopian fiction was to warn us that the stuff in it could happen, if we're not careful-- if dystopias can't exist, what is the point of dystopian novels?

Also, out of curiosity, do you consider Lord of the Flies to be dystopian? It's allegorical as well.

I don't consider LotF to be dystopian because there's no system.
I also think a dystopia can't exist in real life because the definition includes 'where everything is bad' according to Google, and I can't bear to think that could happen in real life. Most things are bad, yes, but everything? No.

I see what you mean.

But, can't our definitions of "good" and "bad" change over time? Can't a manipulative government convince its people that everything is good? Wikipedia says a dystopian society
is often " under the guise of being utopian."  I don't know if you've read Brave New World, but basically everyone in that society is perfectly content with their severely limited lives.
Most of them wouldn't label their society or government as dystopian.

So how would it ever be possible for us to know that, as you put it, everything is bad?

It isn't. But as the USSR has now fallen, we can evaluate it and say that it is not a dystopia.

Animal Farm is an allegory not a dystopia

HOW DARE YOU CALL THE COMMUNIST REVOLUTION A DYSTOPIA

Bump.

Lord of the Flies ain't dystopian because it doesn't exactly present a rigidly controlled or totalitarian society. The society falls apart as the novel progresses, but Lord of the Flies still isn't dystopian.