Scratch

Techno, have you rehearsed your bass part for my song? Are you ready to record? Also, just a reminder to send hpotter134 a message via SoundCloud if you haven't already.

jslomba, please start practising drums for my song. Try to upload it as soon as possible. I have a little time left before my big exam, so the sooner you upload it, the better for me.

Then I can get to mixing sooner than expected! 

technoguyx wrote:

No, I'll be able to practice and maybe record some quick takes this weekend.

And actually, I'd like to take the mixing spot this time. I wasn't able to for Crimson Love, but this time I'm available to mix whenever necessary. My bass (and on occassions, the drums) were way too quiet on the album (even with good headphones, which I'm using right now) and I think I could take care of them better this time. If I do need help while mixing, I won't hesitate on asking you to make some changes.

As for the songs, the only definite ones as of now are yours' and Out of the Possible, am I right? I still think we could do something with jslomba's Flashback, it's somewhere in Noteflight. And transcribe his most recent song ideas, I would do that but I can't really tab out the guitar riffs. 

Maybe we'll have to forget about jslomba's most recent song idea if you can't tab out the guitar riff. I'd say we stick to your's and my songs for the time being, so that we can release them as singles. I've been planning to release your's and my singles as an A and B side, like what used to be done originally. I'm sure that'll be great! 

As for the mixing, I can't help but feel that the bass values even on your goodheadphones are inadequate. Actually, if you listen to my mixes, the bass is loud; in fact, as I recall, it is louder than the bass on your versions of the tracks. The bass values are at higher levels than those for LSJ and Reload which puzzles me. Perhaps they aren't as loud as you expected them to be, but that's only because in some places (especially in Gone), the bass gave an annoying "pop" sound. Even after adjusting peak amplitude for the single track only, the peaking was still present. And the Gone drums weren't great either. 

For MVTY and WIBY though, maybe the G-verb I added in order to get rid of the muffled vocals of LolaRose's (following the background noise removal) and also to give it a "room" feel.

You may have noticed that many people also like the new mixes. I'm not saying that mine is superior to your's, but tbh, I think your tracks were pretty mediocre because of the mess created by the interfering treble frequencies along with the poor vocal tracks and the sloppy piano tracks on WIBY. The same about vocals can be said in Crimson Love's final mix, but I need not remind you for the reason behind that.

I'd prefer to carry on mixing because given that we are starting on completely new, never-before-heard songs, plus the lack of pressure to get a new album out straight away, I'd like to experiment with SoundBooth, GarageBand and maybe even Audacity in addition to what I'm currently using (Reaper and FL Studio). By that, I mean add all sorts of effects, band pass filters, etc. You are aware as you told me before that I am probably more experienced as a mixer as I also have some good solo music projects.

Glad to hear that you will be able to record bass for my song. I will ensure that my mixing will surpass your expectations, although Crimson Love turned out just fine to others and myself, actually, rather a success, becoming Front Paged with amazing feedback. It's still on the Top Loved list, so many enjoy it, and though we will improve as time goes on, it is indeed a fine album! 

technoguyx wrote:

Maybe my bass tracks weren't good and that's why I barely hear it. Maybe my mixes were too muddy too, I still think that. But I still think I could mess with them in other way for this new album - and especially, mix my own songs the way they are meant to be heard on record. WIBY is supposed to sound upbeat, with fairly prominent bass and drums, Gone wasn't meant to sound like someone singing to a piano, but like a complete band with a full sound.

The style in which you are mixing the songs is taking the band in a direction entirely different than what I intended, at least when it comes to the two songs I wrote. If I can't even take a part in the mixing and I'm not even playing bass in half the songs, there's not much point in still being part of the band at this point, am I right? We've lost two members this very way, and I can't help but wonder if the ones left have felt this way.

Crimson Love does improve quite a bit on some things (I still remember I couldn't mix LSJ decently) but it's really lacking in others. Especially the bass and drums, the songs don't feel full to me. If the bass values are really higher than in the originals, then something is wrong. The bass clearly isn't louder, nicer or more prominent in Crimson Love, no matter what those values are.

Well, I told you about my levels; they are just fine. I really do not know what is wrong with your adjustments. I also played the album on my surround system in my music studio, and bass was fine. I've e-mailed the tracks to a few friends. I asked one of them what he thought of the overall songs (I may have mentioned this already), and he said he liked the keys, guitar for WIBY and bass in MVTY and WIBY. Gone does not sound predominantly like a piano ballad to me; guitar has its entrances and exits. Really only at the end do the instruments all play together.

I do not think the style I am mixing in is 'taking the band in a direction entirely different'. Mixing styles can vary, and invariably do vary from person to person. The audience of Crimson Love, even the musically experienced, had nothing to complain about bass. In fact one of them mentioned that the songs should have more treble. This really puzzles me. Quite a few have got back to me with this feedback and you seem the single adamant person that bass is way too low. In an instrumental like LSJ, there are no vocals at all, so it’s the responsibility of the instruments to take away the performance aspects. With vocals, you really can’t have a prominent bass along with your bass voice for Gone; it just does not go well.

I would like to remind you that I mixed all five songs in less than three months, a huge achievement. They aren’t sloppy (save for MVTY, which as you are aware, the vocals were horribly off-tempo at points), and many hours had to go into salvaging individual tracks. All that with my IGCSEs coming up in less than a month. Yet I excelled at my mocks. Imagine how much work could be completed after my exams? It is great that someone is taking the initiative to arrange publicity and take off as much burden as possible from other band members, even during the time of a very important exam.

The band has undoubtedly accomplished better things than it ever did with me around. There have been no other complaints about the mixing I repeat, and even others have stated that the remastered tracks are great. Lellowsfuzz (you yourself know this) was not a good pianist in terms of tempo, so was a1130. I jumped at the very idea of a1130 when I heard his audition and you were the one who said we can’t accept the first person who tries out. I was always keen to have him in as pianist, but when it became apparent that he had timing issues, I was forced to step in to get things done on time. I never had malicious intentions. There is no need for this unwanted hostility to creep in.

Actually, you know what, you go ahead and mix the tracks. But I’ll mix my own. I do not like the idea of different settings on my songs, even the ones coming up which I’m working on in Noteflight. I’d prefer to go with the normal configuration for my tracks, which go well with any good speaker system. As for your tracks, I’d like to get a feel for what kind of values you are expecting once you finish mixing your song. I don’t know how well the outcome will be, but then I will really get an idea of how it will sound on a good speaker system. And I do hope you will have your bass tracks done soon.

veggieman001 wrote:

Ave

"Gone" really sound like its mainly focusing on the keyboard to me (which even overpowers the vocals at times), I can't really hear the guitar or bass, and the drums are just painful (although I don't really think that you could have done anything about that, I think that was on the original recording's end). Also, the whole song does sound horribly offtempo. I'd really love to hear techno's mixes as well as DIY's, as they'd probably be good on different songs and each have their strengths and weaknesses.

I really liked the way how the early stuff, like the original "My Voice to You", was done. The vocals, albeit very slightly offtempo at times, really fit the song. I also liked the way the keyboard was mixed in there, and the powerful feel of the bass. I do also like some of the new stuff too; I think "Lazy Sunday Jam" was mixed really well.

Here are some things that I think need to be fixed with the mixing/recording for your future releases:

*Drums. The drums on these songs are super trebley. Now, I like trebley, but these are like painful ear-cutting trebley. If jsl could do something about his mike or something, then, please, do that.

EDIT: oh, and btw, in my opinion, I pictured Gone as mainly a piano ballad. Perhaps techno thought differently since it's his song.
*Vocals. Figure something out with the new vocalist, because on Crimson Love, I can barely understand the vocals as they're really choppy. They sound like they were ripped from a Skype conversation recorded with a webcam, honestly. The vocals on the original songs are clear and concise. I am apparently one of the only people who thinks this, but whatever. Techno's vocals sounded great by the way
*Keyboard. Overpowers everything else most of the time, mixed louder than guitar. It was really quiet in original songs. Solution? Somewhere in the middle. Also it sounds really muddy.
*Bass. I really can't hear it on my speakers and I have a pretty good system. I can sorta hear it on my system with a subwoofer, but it was better in the original ones.

Those are my thoughts. Read them, disregard them, respond to them, whatever. I'm not trying to criticise, just giving my input and trying to help the band. 

Cheers

Thanks for your feedback. I understand what you're saying and I know what you mean.

What you say is true; both mixes would have been good in their own merits. A lot of the recording defects had to do with the original recording quality and the mics. My mic tends to be quite strong and sometimes a I found that I had to give it prominence to cover up for trebly sounds in the other tracks.

Even I don't like the excess of bass on my subwoofer too much, though it's not unbearable. If it can be heard on a professional system like that (with prominent bass), I really don't think bass should be adjusted any louder. That's exactly what I first thought.

Last edited by DIY (2012-05-05 00:57:29)

veggieman001 wrote:

DIY wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

Ave

"Gone" really sound like its mainly focusing on the keyboard to me (which even overpowers the vocals at times), I can't really hear the guitar or bass, and the drums are just painful (although I don't really think that you could have done anything about that, I think that was on the original recording's end). Also, the whole song does sound horribly offtempo. I'd really love to hear techno's mixes as well as DIY's, as they'd probably be good on different songs and each have their strengths and weaknesses.

I really liked the way how the early stuff, like the original "My Voice to You", was done. The vocals, albeit very slightly offtempo at times, really fit the song. I also liked the way the keyboard was mixed in there, and the powerful feel of the bass. I do also like some of the new stuff too; I think "Lazy Sunday Jam" was mixed really well.

Here are some things that I think need to be fixed with the mixing/recording for your future releases:

*Drums. The drums on these songs are super trebley. Now, I like trebley, but these are like painful ear-cutting trebley. If jsl could do something about his mike or something, then, please, do that.

EDIT: oh, and btw, in my opinion, I pictured Gone as mainly a piano ballad. Perhaps techno thought differently since it's his song.
*Vocals. Figure something out with the new vocalist, because on Crimson Love, I can barely understand the vocals as they're really choppy. They sound like they were ripped from a Skype conversation recorded with a webcam, honestly. The vocals on the original songs are clear and concise. I am apparently one of the only people who thinks this, but whatever. Techno's vocals sounded great by the way
*Keyboard. Overpowers everything else most of the time, mixed louder than guitar. It was really quiet in original songs. Solution? Somewhere in the middle. Also it sounds really muddy.
*Bass. I really can't hear it on my speakers and I have a pretty good system. I can sorta hear it on my system with a subwoofer, but it was better in the original ones.

Those are my thoughts. Read them, disregard them, respond to them, whatever. I'm not trying to criticise, just giving my input and trying to help the band. 

Cheers

Thanks for your feedback. I understand what you're saying and I know what you mean.

What you say is true; both mixes would have been good in their own merits. So do you think that I should mix my songs from now on, and techno mix his?

I think that would be an interesting idea, and could work for the most part. You could also get feedback and trade mixes and work on each others' as well, to get some variety.

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear from techno. Like you said, my mix is fine, and his probably will be too if he had a go at it in its own write. So, there really isn't a issue with my mixing either, that's what he needs to get. I am puzzled at his need for a sudden change which brought up this unwanted issue. I appreciate your concern and helpful feedback.

Last edited by DIY (2012-05-05 01:09:19)

jslomba wrote:

Love your song, DIY, I'll start practicing.

Great! I'm glad to hear it's enjoyed by many! I have many more (greater) ideas coming up soon... 

When can I expect the final recordings?

veggieman001 wrote:

DIY wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

I think that would be an interesting idea, and could work for the most part. You could also get feedback and trade mixes and work on each others' as well, to get some variety.

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear from techno. Like you said, my mix is fine, and his probably will be too if he had a go at it in its own write. So, there really isn't a issue with my mixing either, that's what he needs to get. I am puzzled at his need for a sudden change which brought up this unwanted issue. I appreciate your concern and helpful feedback.

?
I said I thought yours was kinda muddy, both in the post above and the one I made while ago. The keyboard is kinda overpowering and you should probably tone it down just a little.

I mentioned a few posts above; I had to give it prominence to cover up for certain flaws of the other instruments. And you said so yourself that my mix was good in its own way. I'll leave this conversation till techno responds.

technoguyx wrote:

The idea of both of us mixing our own songs sounds good to me. After all, only we both know how exactly the song is supposed to sound.

I do agree with veggieman in that the keyboards and piano sound louder than meant in some songs, especially Gone. And in that LolaRose should seriously try to improve the quality of her recordings, if possible.

I have my bass right beside me and I'll start practicing your song right now. Not sure when to expect a recording.

I thought you said you'd be able to upload this weekend...?

Anyway, have you sent hpotter134 the message? I'll send one just in case.

BTW, as I mentioned, the keyboard often had to be loud because compared with the other instruments, it's rather flawless and covers up for the sloppiness of the other tracks.

LolaRose will have to improve her recording quality. The vocals are good, but the quality is a real let down. There's really nothing one can do to make her voice clearer. You and I used Reaper to filter some recordings, which git rid of the interference but didn't make it clearer.

Also remember that I only take bass when you find it hard to play for those (I have good technique as you are aware), so there really isn't a issue there.

I have many songs in progress (much more than you can imagine). By summer I should have posted many more ideas. Right now I have about 20+ songs in mind, of which I've begun transcribing a few. After my exams, I'll complete those and I can mix a lot of my songs.

Right now, just send me your tracks. jslomba, that applies for you too. Please try to record soon this week.

Last edited by DIY (2012-05-05 21:06:32)

technoguyx wrote:

DIY wrote:

I thought you said you'd be able to upload this weekend...?

technoguyx wrote:

and maybe record some quick takes this weekend.

I'll still try to record as soon as I can. I'm thinking of having a slap bass line in the chorus but I'm not sure if that'll fit in well. Might record a take without and one with this slap bass line.

OK good. Please do try and record soon.

veggieman001 wrote:

DIY wrote:

BTW, as I mentioned, the keyboard often had to be loud because compared with the other instruments, it's rather flawless and covers up for the sloppiness of the other tracks.

Er, that may be true in some cases, but in other cases it's just as flawed as the rest of the track.

Haha, there are absolutely no flaws in those tracks. Those parts are quite easy for an advanced piano player like me. Being a serious musician, I would never upload a substandard track of mine. ಠ_ಠ

veggieman001 wrote:

I guess my ears are just totally defective then or there's something inherently flawed with the way some of the piano tracks are written then?

Maybe yeah. The other instruments put it off at times. It is 100% on timing, like the bass on all songs. Techno and I have a good sense of timing, the core of producing a rather satisfactory finished product.

veggieman001 wrote:

Maybe you should think about recording the drums and then the bass first, and then having the other musicians record their parts to the rhythm section as opposed to individually? That would make the timing a bit better for everyone.

Good idea. That could work. We could e-mail each other once drums and bass are done, then piano, etc. It may not be too efficient though, if one person holds up everyone. But anyway, that can be considered.

veggieman001 wrote:

Maybe you should think about recording the drums and then the bass first, and then having the other musicians record their parts to the rhythm section as opposed to individually? That would make the timing a bit better for everyone.

That was what I originally planned when I just started the band, but it doesn't really work since one member can delay the whole thing (perhaps unintentionally), as mentioned by DIY.