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#26 2012-04-24 11:50:16

LS97
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Registered: 2009-06-14
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Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

sparks wrote:

You can see those painstaking days where one tiny thing has to be changed in a hundred files and the visualisation just explodes with the list of edited file names!

Although CTRL+F does exist  big_smile

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#27 2012-04-24 11:51:53

blob8108
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Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

sparks wrote:

This is a really cool visualisation! It's amazing at the end too, when there's just an explosion of new files. You can see those painstaking days where one tiny thing has to be changed in a hundred files and the visualisation just explodes with the list of edited file names!

It looks really cool when that happens.  smile  It seems like the work goes really slowly for aaages... and then there's suddenly a flurry of activity as they make progress again. I wonder why — is software development in general like this? Maybe the pauses are where they were making design decisions...


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#28 2012-04-24 15:17:58

scratchisthebest
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Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 500+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Yes!
As I said on the Vimeo page, I love the part at the end where a new branch literally unfolds out of nowhere!  big_smile


bye 1.4, we all loved you. but we all outgrew the site. 2.0 is a welcome change.
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#29 2012-04-24 15:21:41

pi3
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Registered: 2011-12-31
Posts: 500+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

ProgrammingFreak wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

Wow, awesome! I like it, but was hoping for some more actual screenshots.  smile

Yeah, I was thinking that's what it would be too.

Me too.  hmm  But this is also cool!  smile


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#30 2012-04-24 16:02:36

NeilWest
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Registered: 2010-01-06
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Wow, beautiful. I was thinking that to make collaboration easier, you could have a general project which members of the collab could edit and create together! It would be the Scratch program, but with voice chat and it could even show other people's cursors!

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#31 2012-04-24 16:33:28

XenoK
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Registered: 2011-09-08
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

I can't get gource to work...


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#32 2012-04-24 17:34:39

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

blob8108 wrote:

sparks wrote:

This is a really cool visualisation! It's amazing at the end too, when there's just an explosion of new files. You can see those painstaking days where one tiny thing has to be changed in a hundred files and the visualisation just explodes with the list of edited file names!

It looks really cool when that happens.  smile  It seems like the work goes really slowly for aaages... and then there's suddenly a flurry of activity as they make progress again. I wonder why — is software development in general like this? Maybe the pauses are where they were making design decisions...

The visualization is cool, but the changes shown don't always correspond to the work. For example, the big explosion at the end was caused by the addition of code imported from the open-source forum project we're planning on using in Scratch 2.0. At that time all we did was copy and import some stuff, but the viz. makes it look like we did nothing but drink coffee and hammer out code for like 3 days straight.

A long time ago they used to pay coders per line of code, but then they realized that was a bad idea. You just get a lot of code that could be made shorter.  smile

So even a subtle small change could reflect a lot of time, energy, and thought. But the viz doesn't show that.


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#33 2012-04-24 17:37:21

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

blob8108 wrote:

Magnie wrote:

I see Python!  big_smile

Maybe I'll be able to understand it and maybe code something!  wink

The video was cool, only problem was I couldn't see all the file names very well.  sad  I saw 'views.py' most often. Out of curiosity, what is that?

I think they're using the Django web framework. In Django, views.py is where you put all your views!  big_smile  Views handle HTTP requests and return a response (a web page, for example). You usually have a specific view for each kind of request. Basically, they're where most of the application logic goes.  smile

Yep, quite right!


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#34 2012-04-24 17:47:06

stevetheipad
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Registered: 2011-08-06
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Lightnin wrote:

blob8108 wrote:

Magnie wrote:

I see Python!  big_smile

Maybe I'll be able to understand it and maybe code something!  wink

The video was cool, only problem was I couldn't see all the file names very well.  sad  I saw 'views.py' most often. Out of curiosity, what is that?

I think they're using the Django web framework. In Django, views.py is where you put all your views!  big_smile  Views handle HTTP requests and return a response (a web page, for example). You usually have a specific view for each kind of request. Basically, they're where most of the application logic goes.  smile

Yep, quite right!

That's what I thought.  smile


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#35 2012-04-24 17:53:00

Magnie
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-12-12
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Lightnin wrote:

blob8108 wrote:

Magnie wrote:

I see Python!  big_smile

Maybe I'll be able to understand it and maybe code something!  wink

The video was cool, only problem was I couldn't see all the file names very well.  sad  I saw 'views.py' most often. Out of curiosity, what is that?

I think they're using the Django web framework. In Django, views.py is where you put all your views!  big_smile  Views handle HTTP requests and return a response (a web page, for example). You usually have a specific view for each kind of request. Basically, they're where most of the application logic goes.  smile

Yep, quite right!

Makes sense! Cool!

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#36 2012-04-24 22:02:23

jji7skyline
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-03-08
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

That Fernando guy looks like he's been working real hard!

Also looks like a lot of the base of the website is written in Python?


I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello!  big_smile

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#37 2012-04-24 22:26:28

TorbyFork234
Scratcher
Registered: 2012-03-01
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

What is the visualization representing? I know it's the Scratch Website, but how is the visualization supposed to tell us anything about the development of the website besides showing dots of files?

Last edited by TorbyFork234 (2012-04-24 22:26:39)

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#38 2012-04-24 23:31:18

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

blob8108 wrote:

It seems like the work goes really slowly for aaages... and then there's suddenly a flurry of activity as they make progress again. I wonder why — is software development in general like this?

Have you ever watched a building being built?  It's the same thing -- nothing seems to happens for a month, and then one day the whole frame is up, then another month of nothing, then the walls appear, etc.  Probably all engineering projects are like that.


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#39 2012-04-24 23:36:49

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Lightnin wrote:

A long time ago they used to pay coders per line of code,

Are you sure about this?  I got my first job (at IBM) in the summer of 1965, and I certainly wasn't paid by the line.  (We had a time clock; I punched in at 8:30am and punched out at 5:12pm, and no, not because it's a power of two.  A long story for some other thread.)

A few really ancient computers used a rotating magnetic drum as their main memory, and people programmed them in machine language, and part of every instruction said where on the drum to find the next instruction, because the programmer was supposed to work out exactly how long each instruction would take (they weren't all the same!) and exactly how far the drum would have rotated by then, so the next instruction would just be coming up when needed.  I can imagine that maybe those programmers might reasonably be paid by the line, but I think even they had a fixed salary.


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#40 2012-04-25 02:35:41

blob8108
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Lightnin wrote:

blob8108 wrote:

sparks wrote:

This is a really cool visualisation! It's amazing at the end too, when there's just an explosion of new files. You can see those painstaking days where one tiny thing has to be changed in a hundred files and the visualisation just explodes with the list of edited file names!

It looks really cool when that happens.  smile  It seems like the work goes really slowly for aaages... and then there's suddenly a flurry of activity as they make progress again. I wonder why — is software development in general like this? Maybe the pauses are where they were making design decisions...

The visualization is cool, but the changes shown don't always correspond to the work. For example, the big explosion at the end was caused by the addition of code imported from the open-source forum project we're planning on using in Scratch 2.0. At that time all we did was copy and import some stuff, but the viz. makes it look like we did nothing but drink coffee and hammer out code for like 3 days straight.

So even a subtle small change could reflect a lot of time, energy, and thought. But the viz doesn't show that.

Ah, I see! I should've guessed it didn't match with actual progress...

A long time ago they used to pay coders per line of code, but then they realized that was a bad idea. You just get a lot of code that could be made shorter.  smile

I've heard of this. It seems very silly. There was a story where some coder optimised a function, reducing it by about a hundred of code; so had to write "-100" as the number of lines of code he'd written that day.  tongue


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#41 2012-04-25 02:41:15

blob8108
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

bharvey wrote:

blob8108 wrote:

It seems like the work goes really slowly for aaages... and then there's suddenly a flurry of activity as they make progress again. I wonder why — is software development in general like this?

Have you ever watched a building being built?  It's the same thing -- nothing seems to happens for a month, and then one day the whole frame is up, then another month of nothing, then the walls appear, etc.  Probably all engineering projects are like that.

Ah, but is software development really engineering?  tongue

Cool video!  smile  I see what you mean — it all happens very suddenly...


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#42 2012-04-27 21:23:24

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

jji7skyline wrote:

That Fernando guy looks like he's been working real hard!

Also looks like a lot of the base of the website is written in Python?

That's Champika - lead developer of the Scratch website. And yes, *she* has been working real hard.  smile


bharvey wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

A long time ago they used to pay coders per line of code,

Are you sure about this?  I got my first job (at IBM) in the summer of 1965, and I certainly wasn't paid by the line.  (We had a time clock; I punched in at 8:30am and punched out at 5:12pm, and no, not because it's a power of two.  A long story for some other thread.)

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure about this at all - only sure I've heard it mentioned, but only in passing. Come to think of it, it could certainly be a kind of urban legend.

Last edited by Lightnin (2012-04-27 21:28:50)


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#43 2012-04-27 23:03:38

stevetheipad
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-08-06
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Lightnin wrote:

bharvey wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

A long time ago they used to pay coders per line of code,

Are you sure about this?  I got my first job (at IBM) in the summer of 1965, and I certainly wasn't paid by the line.  (We had a time clock; I punched in at 8:30am and punched out at 5:12pm, and no, not because it's a power of two.  A long story for some other thread.)

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure about this at all - only sure I've heard it mentioned, but only in passing. Come to think of it, it could certainly be a kind of urban legend.

I read a question and answer topic on another forum (which isn't approved here, so I won't link to it) but, it quotes Steve Ballmer, an IBM programmer:
".... if we have - a developer's got a good idea and he can get something done in 4K-LOCs instead of 20K-LOCs, should we make less money? Because he's made something smaller and faster, less K-LOC. K-LOCs....." which makes us assume he was paid per line of code.  smile


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#44 2012-04-28 07:13:36

SJRCS_011
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

jji7skyline wrote:

That Fernando guy looks like he's been working real hard!

Also looks like a lot of the base of the website is written in Python?

The entire website's gonna be written in Django, an implementation of Python.  tongue

Last edited by SJRCS_011 (2012-04-28 07:14:05)


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#45 2012-04-30 20:54:42

Dinoclor
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-06-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

blob8108 wrote:

Magnie wrote:

I see Python!  big_smile

Maybe I'll be able to understand it and maybe code something!  wink

The video was cool, only problem was I couldn't see all the file names very well.  sad  I saw 'views.py' most often. Out of curiosity, what is that?

I think they're using the Django web framework. In Django, views.py is where you put all your views!  big_smile  Views handle HTTP requests and return a response (a web page, for example). You usually have a specific view for each kind of request. Basically, they're where most of the application logic goes.  smile

So they're doing it again... from scratch?
(geddit?)

Bad pun, I know.

Last edited by Dinoclor (2012-04-30 20:54:58)


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#46 2012-04-30 21:02:10

Pikapika12
New Scratcher
Registered: 2012-04-22
Posts: 24

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Don't  use Internet!!!

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#47 2012-04-30 21:18:38

videogame9
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-05-12
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Pikapika12 wrote:

Don't  use Internet!!!

And what exactly is your reason for using the Internet to tell us not to use the Internet?


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#48 2012-04-30 22:15:39

schusteralex2
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Registered: 2011-09-17
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

videogame9 wrote:

Pikapika12 wrote:

Don't  use Internet!!!

And what exactly is your reason for using the Internet to tell us not to use the Internet?

Loool XD
Hypocrisy these days -_-


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#49 2012-05-01 02:28:31

blob8108
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-25
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

Dinoclor wrote:

So they're doing it again... from scratch?
(geddit?)

Bad pun, I know.

...  tongue

I think they're rewriting the whole site, yes...


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#50 2012-05-01 08:05:43

Pikapika12
New Scratcher
Registered: 2012-04-22
Posts: 24

Re: Scratch 2.0 website development visualization

videogame9 wrote:

Pikapika12 wrote:

Don't  use Internet!!!

And what exactly is your reason for using the Internet to tell us not to use the Internet?

They might put the programmer online!!!!

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