Scratch

Well, some more than others. I don't think any hardware is customizable on the Air, but most others have access to RAM and HDD. Then as far as software goes, you can't do much to the OS itself, but you can Poly-Boot if you want.

Yeah, not like others where you can upgrade

Video Card
Sound Card
RAM
HDD
Add RAID support
Cooling
etc.

The list goes on.

This changed from a laptop upgrading topic to a Mac topic somehow! 

Hardware wise, Macs are exactly the same as PCs, but at a much higher price point than the PCs with the same hardware. You are paying triple for shiny aluminum and an locked-down OS. Most also get a invisible "I am a computer noob" badge.

jji7skyline wrote:

fire219 wrote:

This changed from a laptop upgrading topic to a Mac topic somehow! 

Hardware wise, Macs are exactly the same as PCs, but at a much higher price point than the PCs with the same hardware. You are paying triple for shiny aluminum and an locked-down OS. Most also get a invisible "I am a computer noob" badge.

You are paying for quality, and service.

And Macs have a cool badge, not a noob badge.

Think of all the graphic designers that have Macs 

As for hardware upgarades... RAM is pretty much all I ever want to upgrade.

Unless I upgrade the graphics.

Back ontopic now? 

Quality, sure, but quality isn't worth triple the price. My 3 year old HP laptop is all plastic, has about as much power as a low-end Mac Pro from the time, but was only $2000. It is about as solid as a IBM Model M keyboard (aka extremely so, and can be used to inflict blunt force trauma).

Service.... if you are desperate to use a company's technical support to get your computer fixed, you need "N00B!" branded on your butt.    Real men (and nerds) fix their stuff themselves

Very few graphic designers use Macs, btw. 

16Skittles wrote:

fire219 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

You are paying for quality, and service.

And Macs have a cool badge, not a noob badge.

Think of all the graphic designers that have Macs 

As for hardware upgarades... RAM is pretty much all I ever want to upgrade.

Unless I upgrade the graphics.

Back ontopic now? 

Quality, sure, but quality isn't worth triple the price. My 3 year old HP laptop is all plastic, has about as much power as a low-end Mac Pro from the time, but was only $2000. It is about as solid as a IBM Model M keyboard (aka extremely so, and can be used to inflict blunt force trauma).

Service.... if you are desperate to use a company's technical support to get your computer fixed, you need "N00B!" branded on your butt.    Real men (and nerds) fix their stuff themselves

Very few graphic designers use Macs, btw. 

What size screen? $2000 is higher than both the 13 and 15 inch MBPs. The thing is, the "Apple Paradox" as made by... well... me.

Apples devices are so amazingly beautiful and thin, that they are extremely easy to damage. In order to avoid damage, they must be used with a case. With the case, they no longer look better than a comparable non-apple computer and the advantage is lost, leading the purchaser to wonder why they bought it solely on the looks and thinness.

It may not have been $2000, it was a present from my parents, so I don't know the exact price. It is a late 2008 model HP Pavilion dv7t-1000 with a 17 inch 1440x900 screen. If you want more specifics, just search for any computer specs topic on the Scratch Forums, and I probably posted somewhere in it. 

jji7skyline wrote:

fire219 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

You are paying for quality, and service.

And Macs have a cool badge, not a noob badge.

Think of all the graphic designers that have Macs 

As for hardware upgarades... RAM is pretty much all I ever want to upgrade.

Unless I upgrade the graphics.

Back ontopic now? 

Quality, sure, but quality isn't worth triple the price. My 3 year old HP laptop is all plastic, has about as much power as a low-end Mac Pro from the time, but was only $2000. It is about as solid as a IBM Model M keyboard (aka extremely so, and can be used to inflict blunt force trauma).

Service.... if you are desperate to use a company's technical support to get your computer fixed, you need "N00B!" branded on your butt.    Real men (and nerds) fix their stuff themselves

Very few graphic designers use Macs, btw. 

I do fix things myself, but when things go horribly wrong, it's good to know there's back up.

I'm a real fixer, I fix anything and everything.

And most graphic designers (professionals I mean, those that make a living out of graphic designing) use a Mac.

In fact, all people I know that have something creative or artistic as their job, use a Mac.

As for Macs being fragile...

Well listen to this story.

We had a PC.

It broke.

We bought another.

It broke even worsely.

We bought a Mac.

It's still looks and feels new (after years of use).

We bought a Mac.

It's still looks and feels new (after almost 2 years of use).

We bought a Mac.

It's still looks and feels new (after almost a year of use).

I know people who use Macs that are years and years old.

I do not know anyone who uses a PC that is over 5 years old.

Ok, I am a big fixer too. And dismantle-and-reuse'r when something isn't fixable. 

You may not know any graphic designers with PCs, but that doesn't mean that the majority don't use them.

Oh, and my bedroom PC (a custom built Athlon 64 X2 4600+ gaming rig, now delegated to music playing system that can hold its own in gaming when need be) is 5-6 years old (2005/6 to today), and working as well as the day it was assembled. Another PC (Athlon XP 2100+) lasted about 6 years (2001/2 to 2008) of active use (was taken out of use when I got my current HP laptop), and only recently died when I accidently broke some tiny traces on the motherboard switching cases.

You must have bought some awfully cheap chinese-brand PCs, because well built ones can easily outlast (or at least last as long) as a Mac.

Macs are for people that prefer noob-and-goof-up-proof computers that sparkle in the daylight PCs are for people that like to get things done, and then enjoy some Crysis or Mass Effect (or Farmville for the noobz) without spending an arm and a leg.

fire219 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

fire219 wrote:

Quality, sure, but quality isn't worth triple the price. My 3 year old HP laptop is all plastic, has about as much power as a low-end Mac Pro from the time, but was only $2000. It is about as solid as a IBM Model M keyboard (aka extremely so, and can be used to inflict blunt force trauma).

Service.... if you are desperate to use a company's technical support to get your computer fixed, you need "N00B!" branded on your butt.    Real men (and nerds) fix their stuff themselves

Very few graphic designers use Macs, btw. 

I do fix things myself, but when things go horribly wrong, it's good to know there's back up.

I'm a real fixer, I fix anything and everything.

And most graphic designers (professionals I mean, those that make a living out of graphic designing) use a Mac.

In fact, all people I know that have something creative or artistic as their job, use a Mac.

As for Macs being fragile...

Well listen to this story.

We had a PC.

It broke.

We bought another.

It broke even worsely.

We bought a Mac.

It's still looks and feels new (after years of use).

We bought a Mac.

It's still looks and feels new (after almost 2 years of use).

We bought a Mac.

It's still looks and feels new (after almost a year of use).

I know people who use Macs that are years and years old.

I do not know anyone who uses a PC that is over 5 years old.

Ok, I am a big fixer too. And dismantle-and-reuse'r when something isn't fixable. 

You may not know any graphic designers with PCs, but that doesn't mean that the majority don't use them.

Oh, and my bedroom PC (a custom built Athlon 64 X2 4600+ gaming rig, now delegated to music playing system that can hold its own in gaming when need be) is 5-6 years old (2005/6 to today), and working as well as the day it was assembled. Another PC (Athlon XP 2100+) lasted about 6 years (2001/2 to 2008) of active use (was taken out of use when I got my current HP laptop), and only recently died when I accidently broke some tiny traces on the motherboard switching cases.

You must have bought some awfully cheap chinese-brand PCs, because well built ones can easily outlast (or at least last as long) as a Mac.

Macs are for people that prefer noob-and-goof-up-proof computers that sparkle in the daylight PCs are for people that like to get things done, and then enjoy some Crysis or Mass Effect (or Farmville for the noobz) without spending an arm and a leg.

Graphic designer + PC = EPIC FAILZ LOLZ 

Well, you might actually be surprised to know, we got the best laptops on the market at the time.

The COMPAQ we had (subject of this forum topic) was $2000 when we bought it and had pretty good specs (Except for the RAM ) and being solidly built, it never really "broke" hardware-wise (except for the RAM being half malfunctional) but I'm afraid it must have died at least 5 times software wise (costing us money because I was a noob those days and couldn't fix software problems and also often making us lose data).

The next computer we had was an ASUS M51SN gaming laptop (or at least a media laptop). It had one of the best graphics of the day, and also cost us over $2000. It had 1GB graphics. Specs were pretty good.

The hinge broke... and it also turned out to be the hinge with the wiring in it.

Now the laptop doesn't fold. Sad I know.

Another thing...

All of your pc's....

What are they made of?

Plastic

What are all our Macs made of?

Aluminium

And yes, that is the preferred universal spelling.

Kinda speaks for itself doesn't it?

How old are you ATVR?

I didn't get this computer until late last year. Before that I had a Winfail computer to. I feel empathy for you.

veggieman001 wrote:

Uh, graphic design isn't platform specific to which is better except for tablet drivers. It's dependent on monitor size and resolution (which are more customisable for PCs nowadays), tablet size and brand (platform independent), tablet drivers (Mac/PC usually, Linux doesn't have very good driver support), and software (platform independent, usually; there is more software for Linux distros, naturally). This does give PCs, especially when dual-booting with Linux, a slight edge, but they're pretty much equal.

Oh and my PC is from 2005 or 2006 and works just fine.

Sure PCs could work, but there is the little something about Macs that makes graphic designers want to use them.

And use them they do.

How many times has it died?

fire219 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

fire219 wrote:

Ok, I am a big fixer too. And dismantle-and-reuse'r when something isn't fixable. 

You may not know any graphic designers with PCs, but that doesn't mean that the majority don't use them.

Oh, and my bedroom PC (a custom built Athlon 64 X2 4600+ gaming rig, now delegated to music playing system that can hold its own in gaming when need be) is 5-6 years old (2005/6 to today), and working as well as the day it was assembled. Another PC (Athlon XP 2100+) lasted about 6 years (2001/2 to 2008) of active use (was taken out of use when I got my current HP laptop), and only recently died when I accidently broke some tiny traces on the motherboard switching cases.

You must have bought some awfully cheap chinese-brand PCs, because well built ones can easily outlast (or at least last as long) as a Mac.

Macs are for people that prefer noob-and-goof-up-proof computers that sparkle in the daylight PCs are for people that like to get things done, and then enjoy some Crysis or Mass Effect (or Farmville for the noobz) without spending an arm and a leg.

Graphic designer + PC = EPIC FAILZ LOLZ 

Well, you might actually be surprised to know, we got the best laptops on the market at the time.

The COMPAQ we had (subject of this forum topic) was $2000 when we bought it and had pretty good specs (Except for the RAM ) and being solidly built, it never really "broke" hardware-wise (except for the RAM being half malfunctional) but I'm afraid it must have died at least 5 times software wise (costing us money because I was a noob those days and couldn't fix software problems and also often making us lose data).

The next computer we had was an ASUS M51SN gaming laptop (or at least a media laptop). It had one of the best graphics of the day, and also cost us over $2000. It had 1GB graphics. Specs were pretty good.

The hinge broke... and it also turned out to be the hinge with the wiring in it.

Now the laptop doesn't fold. Sad I know.

Another thing...

All of your pc's....

What are they made of?

Plastic

What are all our Macs made of?

Aluminium

And yes, that is the preferred universal spelling.

Kinda speaks for itself doesn't it?

How old are you ATVR?

I didn't get this computer until late last year. Before that I had a Winfail computer to. I feel empathy for you.

For the Compaq, you must have gone to some dodgy websites on it, and that isn't the computer's fault (nor the fault of Windows, it didn't make you go to malware-infected sites).

Gaming laptops are usually made cheaply, all the engineering focus goes towards performance, and not any at structural integrity. 

My laptop is made of kryptonite, silly boy...... JK, but the 1/4 inch plastic it is made of is extremely sturdy, probably sturdier (not to mention lighter) than the flimsy 1/16 inch scrap aluminum Macs are made of.

Thickness overrules material. Especially when thin sheets of metal bend and don't spring back.

Here is your invitation out of slavery serving the Apple megacorp, back to where computers don't cost more than their weight in diamond, you don't have to pay a cent to create and publish a program. One time only offer. Now get off your butt, and get a HP or custom built PC. 

I don't know what you mean by 1/4 inch and 1/16 inch because I use the metric system...

But I really hate plastic 

And I didn't go to dodgy websites. Only websites that I know, and even I did go to dodgy websites on my Mac it wouldn't die on me. It soldiers on... like a Land Rover 

And obviously you've been robbed of your fair opinion by the anti-Mac propaganda.

Macs are not closed systems. They are very open and certainly more so than Windows. OSX is closely related to Linux and is based on the Unix system. A reason why it is so tough.

Applications you make on Mac can be distributed free and open-source or closed, just like in Windows. You can install many open-source applications on Mac. In fact, most applications I use everyday is by choice open-source, and they work fine and look slick just like their paid counterparts.

I do plan on making a Hackintosh soon, because although I like Mac hardware, I want to get some experience in building my own hardware as well.

And yes, it is legal to make a Hackintosh, just like it's legal to jailbreak and torrent [/not a joke, seriously]

veggieman001 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

Uh, graphic design isn't platform specific to which is better except for tablet drivers. It's dependent on monitor size and resolution (which are more customisable for PCs nowadays), tablet size and brand (platform independent), tablet drivers (Mac/PC usually, Linux doesn't have very good driver support), and software (platform independent, usually; there is more software for Linux distros, naturally). This does give PCs, especially when dual-booting with Linux, a slight edge, but they're pretty much equal.

Oh and my PC is from 2005 or 2006 and works just fine.

Sure PCs could work, but there is the little something about Macs that makes graphic designers want to use them.

And use them they do.

How many times has it died?

My computer has never died or gotten a virus, even after several months of browsing on sketchy sites with no antivirus program.

And there isn't really anything special about Macs that makes graphic designers use them. The most usage of Macs I see in the professional world is at schools and doctors' offices, so they can keep all the software the same over a network more easily.

Interesting... your computer must be very loyal to you.... or you are lying... no offence.

I must use the Google Hammer!!! >:D

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04 … ng-to-mac/

veggieman001 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

My computer has never died or gotten a virus, even after several months of browsing on sketchy sites with no antivirus program.

And there isn't really anything special about Macs that makes graphic designers use them. The most usage of Macs I see in the professional world is at schools and doctors' offices, so they can keep all the software the same over a network more easily.

Interesting... your computer must be very loyal to you.... or you are lying... no offence.

I must use the Google Hammer!!! >

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04 … ng-to-mac/

I'm not lying. That's just how it is, good sir.

And that is an interesting article although I really don't agree with many of the arguments (and some of which are slowly becoming antiquated).

Please, don't force me to use lmgtfy.

Ever considered the superior GUI of OSX?

Or the fact that it has many web dev tools built in? Including Apache, PHP etc.?

What about the fact that OSX has frozen on me just twice, and only because I was trying to run an unstable version of an application? When Windows 7 freezes weekly, even though it's a new installation (a few weeks old?) and has almost no apps on it, and has full virus protection?

What about the fact that I have to run a scan every now and then?

You are part of a dying race, PC lover.

fire219 wrote:

jji7skyline wrote:

fire219 wrote:

For the Compaq, you must have gone to some dodgy websites on it, and that isn't the computer's fault (nor the fault of Windows, it didn't make you go to malware-infected sites).

Gaming laptops are usually made cheaply, all the engineering focus goes towards performance, and not any at structural integrity. 

My laptop is made of kryptonite, silly boy...... JK, but the 1/4 inch plastic it is made of is extremely sturdy, probably sturdier (not to mention lighter) than the flimsy 1/16 inch scrap aluminum Macs are made of.

Thickness overrules material. Especially when thin sheets of metal bend and don't spring back.

Here is your invitation out of slavery serving the Apple megacorp, back to where computers don't cost more than their weight in diamond, you don't have to pay a cent to create and publish a program. One time only offer. Now get off your butt, and get a HP or custom built PC. 

I don't know what you mean by 1/4 inch and 1/16 inch because I use the metric system...

But I really hate plastic 

And I didn't go to dodgy websites. Only websites that I know, and even I did go to dodgy websites on my Mac it wouldn't die on me. It soldiers on... like a Land Rover 

And obviously you've been robbed of your fair opinion by the anti-Mac propaganda.

Macs are not closed systems. They are very open and certainly more so than Windows. OSX is closely related to Linux and is based on the Unix system. A reason why it is so tough.

Applications you make on Mac can be distributed free and open-source or closed, just like in Windows. You can install many open-source applications on Mac. In fact, most applications I use everyday is by choice open-source, and they work fine and look slick just like their paid counterparts.

I do plan on making a Hackintosh soon, because although I like Mac hardware, I want to get some experience in building my own hardware as well.

And yes, it is legal to make a Hackintosh, just like it's legal to jailbreak and torrent [/not a joke, seriously]

Alright.... MS Calc says 1/4 inch is 6.35mm, 1/16 inch is 1.5875mm.

My opinion is completely fair, you have been robbed of your sight of reality by Apple's brainwashings.

The bare kernel (Darwin) is open, but that is it. Everything else Apple touches is as locked down as a maximum security prison.

I didn't say that all Mac apps are paid and closed source. I mean Apple wants you to (and practically forces you to) pay 99 bucks to be an official developer.

For the last time, Mac hardware is EXACTLY the same as PC hardware. They both use parts from AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Broadcom, etc. They are even the same product lines and models. You are better off sticking the Mac internals in a PC (aka real, not blindingly shiny, etc.) case.

How is it locked down any more than Windows?

If you become an official dev, you're an official dev. So what?

You just dev, and you're a dev.

No, Macs are shiny, PC's are usually not. And you forgot how good the monitors are as well. If I do ever build a hackintosh, I'm going to stick it inside an old G5 or Mac Pro case.