Scratch

Noticed that is changed to + symbols. Still, bring back accurate post readings. Although this is more understandable for younger Scratchers who may not have learned < and >.

maxskywalker wrote:

Before fixing a problem, I think we should find a problem.  (a) When was the last time someone spammed up something just to up their post count, and (b) when was the last time it was a problem?  And in my opinion, some competitiveness in post counts was a good thing, because it gave people a reason to try to be as helpful as possible, and be rewarded with posts.  If there was a problem with post count spamming, isn't there still a danger of pre-1000-post post spamming?

This is a problem we've seen for a long time, and it tends to come and go in waves. But as with any moderated space in an online community, the community members *mostly* don't see the problems, because the mods clean them up. A lot of Scratchers upthread have said "Spam!? What spam!?" - the same reasoning applies. You don't see much spam because the CMs and Scratch Team get rid of it, usually very quickly.

As to the post count being a motivation to be helpful - that's an interesting point. The thing is, if your goal is to increase your count, the easiest way is to spam useless meaningless stuff, because spam takes almost no thought and therefore almost no time and energy. You can bang out posts with only the 60 second rule to slow you down.

But if people who are helpful are really just doing it to increase their post count, well, we'd really be in trouble.    I think Scratcher's motivation for helping New Scratchers is, most often, a desire to be helpful to others who were once like them.  Of course, not everyone feels this way -- some probably are just in it for the numbers, or out of some sort of competition. But if that was the case, would they really stay, and be helpful once they got a high number?  I think most people stay because Scratch is a pretty friendly place, they've become friends with other Scratchers, and because they like Scratching.

Edit: re: pre 1000 spamming. There still is danger of that. But it seems like it's more important to have at least some sense of how experienced a Scratcher is, so that's why we went with levels. If we showed no post count info, it'd be easy for people to make fake accounts with one letter differences. And also, you'd never know if you were talking to an '08 super experienced Scratcher you never met, or someone who had no idea what this place is.  So this choice is really a compromise of sorts.

Last edited by Lightnin (2012-02-22 14:04:42)

Lightnin wrote:

maxskywalker wrote:

Before fixing a problem, I think we should find a problem.  (a) When was the last time someone spammed up something just to up their post count, and (b) when was the last time it was a problem?  And in my opinion, some competitiveness in post counts was a good thing, because it gave people a reason to try to be as helpful as possible, and be rewarded with posts.  If there was a problem with post count spamming, isn't there still a danger of pre-1000-post post spamming?

This is a problem we've seen for a long time, and it tends to come and go in waves. But as with any moderated space in an online community, the community members *mostly* don't see the problems, because the mods clean them up. A lot of Scratchers upthread have said "Spam!? What spam!?" - the same reasoning applies. You don't see much spam because the CMs and Scratch Team get rid of it, usually very quickly.

As to the post count being a motivation to be helpful - that's an interesting point. The thing is, if your goal is to increase your count, the easiest way is to spam useless meaningless stuff, because spam takes almost no thought and therefore almost no time and energy. You can bang out posts with only the 60 second rule to slow you down.

But if people who are helpful are really just doing it to increase their post count, well, we'd really be in trouble.    I think Scratcher's motivation for helping New Scratchers is, most often, a desire to be helpful to others who were once like them.  Of course, not everyone feels this way -- some probably are just in it for the numbers, or out of some sort of competition. But if that was the case, would they really stay, and be helpful once they got a high number?  I think most people stay because Scratch is a pretty friendly place, they've become friends with other Scratchers, and because they like Scratching.

It's all true, but, take me for an example, I did take part (minorly) in post count races, but never resorted to spamming. It's an extra challenge. I do enjoy helping people, and I certainly like the friendliness, but yes, I checked users' post counts quite often, and tried to beat them. Before this change, I was aiming to beat Paddle to 10,000. Now, I'll never know.

Last edited by scimonster (2012-02-22 13:57:54)

scimonster wrote:

It's all true, but, take me for an example, I did take part (minorly) in post count races, but never resorted to spamming. It's an extra challenge. I do enjoy helping people, and I certainly like the friendliness, but yes, I checked users' post counts quite often, and tried to beat them. Before this change, I was aiming to beat Paddle to 10,000. Now, I'll never know.

That's an interesting point, especially because you have been a long time and really helpful member of the community. The thing is, not everyone will avoid total spamming, as you did.

But is that post race with P2S really so important to your experience on Scratch?

If it really is, what would be an alternative way, aside from the post count change, to discourage spamful / meaningless posts made only for the purpose of upping one's count?

scimonster wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

If it really is, what would be an alternative way, aside from the post count change, to discourage spamful / meaningless posts made only for the purpose of upping one's count?

Yeah, that's the problem...
No. That's the true answer. Just some side little thing.
Well, I'm not so sure what APIs FluxBB has, but maybe you could see who's posted more than an average of, say, 50 times a day, in the past couple days, and just ask them why they're posting so much. Make sure it has good intentions. Except that's a bunch of modwork... Maybe an automatically generated admin message reminding them that they've been posting a lot, and should make sure they have good intentions while doing so.

I was thinking more along the lines of something Scratchers could do to prevent post count spamming, or to intervene gently when they find it, and flag when necessary.  Mods have their hands pretty full as it is, and need to have time to focus on other things, like answering questions, creating awesome activities, making projects, that sort of thing.

Much better now! 

The +s are much nicer.   

However, Lightnin, I think it would be best if we got rid of the tiers and went back to normal, but upped the penalties for spamming and made this a very public, clear, concise no-tolerance policy.  Many people spam, I believe, because they feel the lines are fuzzy and there isn't much imminent threat of punishment. 

My problems with the tiers run parallel to those Scimonster has--although I never engaged in post count races with people, I often compared mine to others'.  I sorely miss those numbers.   

Last edited by Greenatic (2012-02-22 18:47:26)

Greenatic wrote:

The +s are much nicer.   

However, Lightnin, I think it would be best if we got rid of the tiers and went back to normal, but upped the penalties for spamming and made this a very public, clear, concise no-tolerance policy.  Many people spam, I believe, because they feel the lines are fuzzy and there isn't much imminent threat of punishment. 

My problems with the tiers run parallel to those Scimonster has--although I never engaged in post count races with people, I often compared mine to others'.  I sorely miss those numbers.   

I think it would be kind of nice to try this for a while, to see what happens.

+ > > 
(who gets it?)

Looks way nicer! The old one looked bad. 

Ah, I was hoping the ">" would be replaced with "+".

wolvesstar97 wrote:

rabbit1131 wrote:

maxyskywalker wrote:

Before fixing a problem, I think we should find a problem.  (a) When was the last time someone spammed up something just to up their post count, and (b) when was the last time it was a problem?  And in my opinion, some competitiveness in post counts was a good thing, because it gave people a reason to try to be as helpful as possible, and be rewarded with posts.  If there was a problem with post count spamming, isn't there still a danger of pre-1000-post post spamming?

This makes all the points I wanted to say.

^my point
______________

But really, this is actually not a valid idea, because you can just click on profile, and it shows your post count!

That only shows your post count. But Veggie kept on posting their post count everywhere, so that kinda defeted the purpose.