Scratch

Welll...
So I'll just sorta ramble a bit, sorry if I don't make sense. Maybe write a little persuasive essay.
    The Scratch Team want to close down misc because they believe it's spammy, and works against the MIT Media Lab's views. This view makes sense on the top, anybody new to the forum would think this. The solution they have proposed is to split the forum, and create two different types of topics. This solution appeals to the low-moderation budget the Scratch Team is looking for. However, it does not sit well with the community.
    The Community wants misc, due to its free forum nature. But of course, this can be a cause of spam, and it takes up way to much moderation. However many people are inspired in misc, and contrary to popular belief, many people do use Scratch Misc. While misc may be against the views of the MIT media lab, it is what the community wants. And even is the forum is split, people will post off-topic just as much, it'll just be easier to discern the offtopic from the ontopic. The controversy is that the split will ruin misc.
    I think that it is important that the Scratch Team keeps things low-moderation, while also creating something the community would prefer. It's like putting a wall through a forum to split it, it should stay one. But of course, they don't want it to be like one big "chaos core" or "chat room" etc. The solution I propose is that Misc stay one, but with some changes. It shouldn't be a free-for-all. There are some types of topics that are not advantageous, such as "I hate my teacher" or "I have a really annoying friend." But there are some topics like "Chain smithing" that are advantageous. So a good solution would be to have these guidelines (not exactly, but this is a rough idea, I copied and edited the original ones)

The Miscellaneous forum is a place for members of the Scratch community to discuss things that don't quite fit in the other forums. It's up to everyone who posts in Miscellaneous to help keep things friendly and respectful.

As with all parts of the Scratch community, we ask that Scratchers follow the guidelines described in the Scratch Community Guidelines.

In addition:

Don't create topics that have a strong likelihood of creating arguments (i.e. Trolling). This includes topics about religion, politics, conspiracy theories, etc. If we feel a topic or post is disrespectful or 'flamebait,' we will close or remove it.

Don't feed the trolls There’s an old saying that goes “It takes two to tango.” It means that for something like trolling to keep going, it needs people to feed the trolls - with angry responses or long threads discussing the issue. As long as the community’s focus is on whatever is inappropriate or controversial, then it is likely to continue.  So please do not post links or have discussions about sites that are inappropriate or disrespectful.  We will remove or close all threads and posts related to these discussions.

Keep discussions on topic. If a thread gets derailed, help get it back on track. 

Don't spam  Make sure that your posts are making a useful contribution to the discussion. Don't clutter things up with extra images, smilies, spaces or words like "inb4close" that don't contribute to the discussion.  If you do not find a thread interesting - don't post in it. New topics that you create should be focused on a single subject and invite an interesting discussion.

Don't misquote anyone.

Only link to sites that are appropriate for all ages - and that are monitored to make sure that they stay that way.  External forums and chat room sites often have little to no monitoring and should be avoided.  Linking to member-created websites requires permission in some cases.

Don’t create threads about sexuality or sexual orientation. See this post for links to outside forums with the resources to handle these discussions sensitively.

Don't post about stuff that's too intense for younger Scratchers, such as severe mental pain, suicidal thoughts, or self-harm. Do get help. Check out this post for links to resources and people who can help.

Here is a description of the steps we take when an account is used to do something that's not ok for Scratch. We may update these guidelines from time to time. If you'd like to discuss them,  we're always open to respectful feedback via the contact us page.

Don't create threads that spread hate. An example would be "My teacher is so annoying" as these threads tend to cause negative outcomes.

Don't be rude, and don't gossip. Many topics are directed at scratchers being mean, these threads are not acceptable at all. Also, creating threads about scratchers without them knowing is considered gossip, and not welcome here.

Don't repost. If a thread is closed, it is closed for a reason, and do not repost it.

Scratch On

Now maybe a few more guidelines could be in order, but I tried to think of the negative things you were talking about throughout the thread. These improved guidelines would fix most of it. I couldn't think of how to put a few of them, like the 1 on 1 contact. Maybe something like "Off topic posts. It may seem harmless just to post one off topic post to tell somebody to do something, but it can derail threads. Please only contact people on their projects, and not on the forums." Or something of the sort. But I believe that the most important thing to not do is split the forum, because then the userbase will tend to stick to either one forum or the other.

Last edited by rabbit1131 (2012-01-25 17:53:01)

Somehow, I think a large part of this leads back to that pornography attack about a month ago 

sorry about this not going in the official topic
but i needed to get the word out
anyway

misc isnt really going away
its just being split up
please stop spazzing out

Umm...
It IS going away. Many of the topics that are commonly posted will no longer be accepted.

RedRocker227 wrote:

AnimeCreatorArtist wrote:

Somehow, I think a large part of this leads back to that pornography attack about a month ago 

Ehh, I don't think so. I'm sure Lightnin said somewhere that it had been on their agenda for a while.

A while = a month


Yep. I said it.

agscratcher wrote:

RedRocker227 wrote:

AnimeCreatorArtist wrote:

Somehow, I think a large part of this leads back to that pornography attack about a month ago 

Ehh, I don't think so. I'm sure Lightnin said somewhere that it had been on their agenda for a while.

A while = a month


Yep. I said it.

Yep, you said it.
But there had to have been more than that...
I would like to say, as stated above in my essay, this will not help troll attacks, or pornography attacks. Or whatever you want it to stop, it won't. It'll just make it clearer what is and isn't allowed, and also will get rid of many of the best threads.

rabbit1131 wrote:

agscratcher wrote:

RedRocker227 wrote:

Ehh, I don't think so. I'm sure Lightnin said somewhere that it had been on their agenda for a while.

A while = a month


Yep. I said it.

Yep, you said it.
But there had to have been more than that...
I would like to say, as stated above in my essay, this will not help troll attacks, or pornography attacks. Or whatever you want it to stop, it won't. It'll just make it clearer what is and isn't allowed, and also will get rid of many of the best threads.

Not really for the best threads thing, at least IMO.

soupoftomato wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

rabbit1131 wrote:

Yep, you said it.
But there had to have been more than that...
I would like to say, as stated above in my essay, this will not help troll attacks, or pornography attacks. Or whatever you want it to stop, it won't. It'll just make it clearer what is and isn't allowed, and also will get rid of many of the best threads.

Not really for the best threads thing, at least IMO.

Stuff about geocoaching, acting, any hobby that doesn't involve MAKING stuff will not be allowed by those descriptions.

That's not true. Those things could fit in the reading/playing, which is for things that inspire you or things that you're doing.

soupoftomato wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

rabbit1131 wrote:

Yep, you said it.
But there had to have been more than that...
I would like to say, as stated above in my essay, this will not help troll attacks, or pornography attacks. Or whatever you want it to stop, it won't. It'll just make it clearer what is and isn't allowed, and also will get rid of many of the best threads.

Not really for the best threads thing, at least IMO.

Stuff about geocoaching, acting, any hobby that doesn't involve MAKING stuff will not be allowed by those descriptions.

Nope - those sound awesome actually.    They would fit in MaC - the forum for awesome stuff that Scratchers do outside of Scratch. Hopefully the description will make that clearer. (BTW, we're not totally in love with the names, so if you have suggestions of better titles, please share them.)

Edit: Chainsmithing would fit in MaC too.

Last edited by Lightnin (2012-01-25 20:02:07)

@rabbit1131: Some issues with your speech:

"However, it does not sit well with the community."

By "the community", you mean the 1.5 percent of scratch? And, many people support this change, so let's say, 0.75 percent?

"However many people are inspired in misc"

Okay, that may be correct. However, the goal of the two new forums is to only allow this kind of "inspiring" and creative content (that supports the Media Lab's views), and not the spammy stuff.

"While misc may be against the views of the MIT media lab, it is what the community wants. And even is the forum is split, people will post off-topic just as much, it'll just be easier to discern the offtopic from the ontopic. The controversy is that the split will ruin misc."

You haven't really shown how this change is bad for Scratch. Your main points seem to be that the community doesn't like these changes, and that the forums will be completely stripped away of any creative discussion and friendship building, which aren't completely true.

This topic has nothing wrong with it. It's not inappropriate, it's not pointless, it won't start a flamewar (we're not immature enough to insult each other because of potato chip preference), and it let's us learn a little bit about each other. It's a topic that serves a purpose of some sort and has nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't fit into the two forums, so it's gone. That seems unfair.

And also I like having all the non-Scratch stuff in one place. Having to check two forums, while not a big deal, is much less convenient.

Just wanted to get my two cents in before this forum can't be posted in.

R.I.P. Miscellaneous, 2009-2012. It's sad to see it go but at least it had a good run. 

sanddude wrote:

This topic has nothing wrong with it. [...] it's not pointless

It's "pointless", or "unimportant" enough that it doesn't belong on the forums. If you want to discuss your favorite crisps, or favorite anything, you can make a project about it, and put it in Show and Tell.