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#1 2012-01-10 19:27:29

my-chemical-romance
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-04-24
Posts: 1000+

Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

(Move this if you must, it is meant to be a discussion, this area seemed fit for it)

So with this new build your own block feature we have been hearing about from the Scratch team, one question arises in my mind: what about skill?

Surely this is like having the Lego machine at your house, instead of thinking around problems you could just make a block which bridges large gaps. Right now we can see some cool projects which gap some problems which commonly arise in Scratch, with the block builder we could just see people making blocks to make whatever they want extremely easily. Although it's nice to see lots of cool games, isn't this the opposite to what programming is about? If I came across a problem with Java, I would make a smart work-around instead of changing the programming language itself to fit my needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love new blocks, like a previous costume block or a hide list block, but giving the user the key to Scratch instead of letting them find a way to unlock it seems kind of against what Scratch is about. It'd be better, in my opinion, if they were to refine the language to make it work better on different calibre of machines.

Your opinions?

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#2 2012-01-10 19:44:30

veggieman001
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Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

But you still have to make the blocks, and I don't think you'll be able to share the blocks.


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#3 2012-01-10 19:49:57

kayybee
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Registered: 2009-12-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

Well, a hide list is not even possible right now...

And remember, this program was originally for 5 year olds  tongue

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#4 2012-01-10 20:01:46

ImagineIt
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-02-28
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

kayybee wrote:

Well, a hide list is not even possible right now...

And remember, this program was originally for 5 year olds  tongue

http://stats.scratch.mit.edu/community/usersbyage.html

Where did all of the teenagers come from????

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#5 2012-01-10 20:14:12

my-chemical-romance
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Registered: 2011-04-24
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

veggieman001 wrote:

But you still have to make the blocks, and I don't think you'll be able to share the blocks.

From what I've heard it'll all be online, so you can share the blocks and it'll look like any other project.

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#6 2012-01-10 20:17:14

PaperMario123
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-11-25
Posts: 500+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

my-chemical-romance wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

But you still have to make the blocks, and I don't think you'll be able to share the blocks.

From what I've heard it'll all be online, so you can share the blocks and it'll look like any other project.

The bold word is false. You can download it, if you so choose.


http://i.picasion.com/pic46/52268c4a041cced4c8ed97cc7468f869.gif

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#7 2012-01-10 20:25:01

veggieman001
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Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

my-chemical-romance wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

But you still have to make the blocks, and I don't think you'll be able to share the blocks.

From what I've heard it'll all be online, so you can share the blocks and it'll look like any other project.

Yes, but people can take scripts anyway.


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#8 2012-01-10 20:27:57

samtwheels
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Registered: 2011-03-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

Custom functions are in most real programming languages, so this should actually help bridge the gap.

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#9 2012-01-10 20:30:26

veggieman001
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

samtwheels wrote:

Custom functions are in most real programming languages, so this should actually help bridge the gap.

This as well.


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#10 2012-01-10 21:06:30

jackrulez
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-01
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

It'll be like Snap (BYOB, whatever), where the custom blocks are basically shortcuts for longer sequences of blocks.


Yawn, another boring text signature. I should really make something better.

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#11 2012-01-10 21:47:31

my-chemical-romance
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-04-24
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

jackrulez wrote:

It'll be like Snap (BYOB, whatever), where the custom blocks are basically shortcuts for longer sequences of blocks.

What is the point of this though? Can't we have what most programming languages have, a -/+ sign next to parent blocks, like "If" for example could have everything inside it hidden.

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#12 2012-01-10 21:59:39

wmays
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-05-10
Posts: 500+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

my-chemical-romance wrote:

jackrulez wrote:

It'll be like Snap (BYOB, whatever), where the custom blocks are basically shortcuts for longer sequences of blocks.

What is the point of this though? Can't we have what most programming languages have, a -/+ sign next to parent blocks, like "If" for example could have everything inside it hidden.

As has been said before, the ability to define your own functions is in most programming languages. It's just not in Scratch, and that will be changed soon. In fact, in most programming languages, I can't think of a program without some functions. So, really, this is advancing Scratch. It also allows for recursion, something else that is in most programming languages.


http://i42.tinypic.com/2z5vcz9.gif
http://phpscripthost.comoj.com/imagescripts/ipimg.php

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#13 2012-01-10 22:39:56

luiysia
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

Moving aside recursion and all the important things you can do with it, it also makes things less cramped on-screen. For me, I'm always bothered if the screen is cluttered (too many tabs open, too many blocks, etc) so this would be really nice for me. Plus, you still have to program the block itself, but this just makes it easier to copy blocks.

Also, you can already see all the scripts by downloading, and if you were really lazy, you could probably just make a program entirely out of things other people made or drew and not place a single block. This just makes it somewhat easier to do so.


http://i50.tinypic.com/dx00pd.gif

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#14 2012-01-10 22:46:01

my-chemical-romance
Scratcher
Registered: 2011-04-24
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

I'd like to see a compile to block function, so I could set a selection into 1 block, otherwise I see it as more of a shortcut. I really do hope that there's a text editor in Scratch 2.0, as sometimes blocks lag and it all gets confusing. I guess I'm not really fond of shortcuts, although it'd be nice if it was more of a Scratchception type of thing, programming the block itself out of blocks.

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#15 2012-01-10 23:05:12

scimonster
Community Moderator
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

my-chemical-romance wrote:

I'd like to see a compile to block function, so I could set a selection into 1 block, otherwise I see it as more of a shortcut. I really do hope that there's a text editor in Scratch 2.0, as sometimes blocks lag and it all gets confusing. I guess I'm not really fond of shortcuts, although it'd be nice if it was more of a Scratchception type of thing, programming the block itself out of blocks.

You do program the blocks out of other, existing blocks.
It's just like functions in other programs. It comes with a built in set, it's up to you to put it together the write way. If you have lots of very similar, or exactly similar, code, put it in a function.

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#16 2012-01-10 23:14:07

veggieman001
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

scimonster wrote:

my-chemical-romance wrote:

I'd like to see a compile to block function, so I could set a selection into 1 block, otherwise I see it as more of a shortcut. I really do hope that there's a text editor in Scratch 2.0, as sometimes blocks lag and it all gets confusing. I guess I'm not really fond of shortcuts, although it'd be nice if it was more of a Scratchception type of thing, programming the block itself out of blocks.

You do program the blocks out of other, existing blocks.
It's just like functions in other programs. It comes with a built in set, it's up to you to put it together the write way. If you have lots of very similar, or exactly similar, code, put it in a function.

Exactly

And I really hope they add parameters.


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#17 2012-01-10 23:18:00

kayybee
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-12-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

ImagineIt wrote:

kayybee wrote:

Well, a hide list is not even possible right now...

And remember, this program was originally for 5 year olds  tongue

http://stats.scratch.mit.edu/community/usersbyage.html

Where did all of the teenagers come from????

I don't know...

but anyways...

lifelong kindergarten group or something

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#18 2012-01-10 23:30:20

CheeseMunchy
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-10-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

I think there will definitely be skill involved, just as much as there was before.
The block maker will only make it a tiny bit easier for me.

Last edited by CheeseMunchy (2012-01-10 23:31:23)


6418,

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#19 2012-01-10 23:45:32

Agentpieface
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

ImagineIt wrote:

kayybee wrote:

Well, a hide list is not even possible right now...

And remember, this program was originally for 5 year olds  tongue

http://stats.scratch.mit.edu/community/usersbyage.html

Where did all of the teenagers come from????

There is 69 year olds on scratch  hmm


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr7fywSZAG1qfj8fq.gif

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#20 2012-01-11 00:03:24

veggieman001
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

Agentpieface wrote:

ImagineIt wrote:

kayybee wrote:

Well, a hide list is not even possible right now...

And remember, this program was originally for 5 year olds  tongue

http://stats.scratch.mit.edu/community/usersbyage.html

Where did all of the teenagers come from????

There is 69 year olds on scratch  hmm

Some people lie about their age though, and there could be grandparents.

And how is that a bad thing? o.O


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#21 2012-01-11 00:07:06

Agentpieface
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Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

veggieman001 wrote:

Agentpieface wrote:

ImagineIt wrote:


http://stats.scratch.mit.edu/community/usersbyage.html

Where did all of the teenagers come from????

There is 69 year olds on scratch  hmm

Some people lie about their age though, and there could be grandparents.

And how is that a bad thing? o.O

well.. I think you know..


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr7fywSZAG1qfj8fq.gif

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#22 2012-01-11 00:12:31

veggieman001
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

Agentpieface wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

Agentpieface wrote:


There is 69 year olds on scratch  hmm

Some people lie about their age though, and there could be grandparents.

And how is that a bad thing? o.O

well.. I think you know..

Not really...


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#23 2012-01-11 00:14:30

Agentpieface
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-10-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

veggieman001 wrote:

Agentpieface wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:


Some people lie about their age though, and there could be grandparents.

And how is that a bad thing? o.O

well.. I think you know..

Not really...

k. it doesnt matter. bai.


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr7fywSZAG1qfj8fq.gif

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#24 2012-01-11 00:17:03

veggieman001
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-20
Posts: 1000+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

Agentpieface wrote:

veggieman001 wrote:

Agentpieface wrote:


well.. I think you know..

Not really...

k. it doesnt matter. bai.

Uh alright...
I don't see any problem with people of all ages using Scratch.


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#25 2012-01-11 00:46:20

falloutgeek
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-10-03
Posts: 100+

Re: Will Scratch 2.0 be the killer of programming skill?

BYOB actually makes it more similar to a text-based programming language. Creating your own block acts as a 'function', quite similar to what is used in text-based programming languages. These functions take up less space and times, they can be easily used multiple times. I think, in fact, all of these advances can make Scratch more sophisticated.


Hello.

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