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#26 2008-09-04 15:49:03

SeanCanoodle
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-20
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

It's really nice to have 1.3 finally here! I have a little question though, will it work on Windows 2000? I know the beta did so I don't know why it would be different now, you just didn't mention Windows 2000 on the topic post. I have a Vista computer too, but I'll be on it less.

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#27 2008-09-04 18:11:06

jcubed
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-07-23
Posts: 65

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

1 other problem, all though you can set veribals to text you can't type text in an <(  <=>  )> block making that feature next to useless


Jcubed
Proud founder of Icdzat Productions.

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#28 2008-09-04 18:13:32

archmage
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-05-18
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

jcubed wrote:

1 other problem, all though you can set veribals to text you can't type text in an <(  <=>  )> block making that feature next to useless

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. That sucks but I guess having string variables with limited uses is better than having none at all.


Hi, I am Archmage coder extraordinaire. I do Scratch,pascal,java,php,html, AS2 and AS3. Leave me a message if you want coding advice. Also check out my personal website, lots of good stuff about web development, Flash, and Scratch (v1 and v2) !

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#29 2008-09-04 19:49:07

Paddle2See
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

archmage wrote:

jcubed wrote:

1 other problem, all though you can set veribals to text you can't type text in an <(  <=>  )> block making that feature next to useless

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. That sucks but I guess having string variables with limited uses is better than having none at all.

You can set up another variable or a list with the values you want to compare the text variable to.  Kind of cumbersome, but you work with what you have!


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#30 2008-09-04 19:55:35

N-Wear
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-08-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Loving the lists!! I am creating a movie taking game! (Please no one take my idea! I'm working very hard on this!)


If bread crumbs are better than nothing. And nothing is better than cheese cake. Then, bread crumbs are better than cheese cake!  smile
The following sentence is true. The previous sentence is false.  hmm                              Treat others the way you want to be treated!  big_smile

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#31 2008-09-04 20:04:40

johnadmin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-03-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi, SeanCanoodle.

Scratch 1.3 does not work on Win 98 or Win Me, but it might actually work on Windows 2000 (which is based on Windows NT). If someone has and Win 2K computer, maybe they can report if Scratch works on it. (You will know if it doesn't -- it won't even start.)

    -- John

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#32 2008-09-04 20:14:44

johnadmin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-03-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi, jcubed.

Oh, there are lots of uses for strings that don't involve comparison. And, as Paddle2See pointed out, you can compare two variables that contain strings.

In the 1.3 release, the goal was just to add lists. But we did not want to limit lists to just numbers because allowing lists to include text (strings) has so many fun and interesting applications.

We may expand the range of things that you can do with strings in a future release.

  -- John

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#33 2008-09-05 00:57:50

TegansPoppy
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-01-06
Posts: 47

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

johnadmin wrote:

Hi, SeanCanoodle.

Scratch 1.3 does not work on Win 98 or Win Me, but it might actually work on Windows 2000 (which is based on Windows NT). If someone has and Win 2K computer, maybe they can report if Scratch works on it. (You will know if it doesn't -- it won't even start.)

    -- John

John, et al.,
I just asked my brother Stefan to try that for you. He has a copy of Windows2000 running in Parallels on an iMac Intel Core 2 Duo. Scratch 1.3 installed and ran just fine. Thought you'd be glad to know.  smile

Thank you so much for all your hard work on the new version! I love it! I haven't abandoned { itch }, by the way - just been hard at work on other stuff lately. I'm writing a programming course for kids in my spare time as well, and Scratch is playing a major role. This new version has opened up some exciting options, especially with lists now! Thanks again, Scratchrs!

David:.


http://guessmedia.com/scratch/

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#34 2008-09-05 18:41:45

jcubed
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-07-23
Posts: 65

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

johnadmin wrote:

Hi, jcubed.

Oh, there are lots of uses for strings that don't involve comparison. And, as Paddle2See pointed out, you can compare two variables that contain strings.

In the 1.3 release, the goal was just to add lists. But we did not want to limit lists to just numbers because allowing lists to include text (strings) has so many fun and interesting applications.

We may expand the range of things that you can do with strings in a future release.

  -- John

still, it would be nice to be able to compair a veriable without making another


Jcubed
Proud founder of Icdzat Productions.

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#35 2008-09-06 02:22:17

JSO
Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-06-23
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Wow - I think Scratch 1.3 will lead to many creative projects... The possibilities are enormous! Good job...


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#36 2008-09-07 08:38:48

MartinWollenweber
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-04-10
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi Scratch Team and specially John,

thank you very much for the wonderful new features in Scratch 1.3!

Some annotations:
1.
Bug or feature? You can create code for making "lists of lists" but it doesn't do  what it should do: So better don't allow to add a list to an other list, or implement the correct behavior.

2.
Please make a color-distinction between local and global variables, like we were used to in Scratch 1.2

3.
A very easy to understand and to implement feature for Scratch 1.4 was something like "put VARIABLE in LIST" and "put LIST in VARIABLE" to convert the textual representation of a string or a number to a List (with each character as one element) and vice versa. So all kinds of text-Manipulation could be programmed in Scratch, without adding to much new structures.

4.
Many Scratch programs make use of a group of Sprites with exact the same implementation (just copies). When changing only one thing you have to delete the group and make a copies of the changed sprite to recreated the group, again and again: That's annoying!!! It would be valuable to create an easy mechanism for that. I understand that a "create copy of a sprite" in runtime would cause complications and perhaps would break the "easiness of Scratch". But perhaps in Scratch 1.4  you could implement a "Sprite-Area" with index ? With a menuclick on such a "Sprite-Area" you could change it's representation in the Sprite-pane from "all in one" to "each represented separate". A small Area-Name with index number in the Sprite-Pane representation could show, that this sprite is an element of a "Sprite-Area". So the mechanism was very easy to use and to understand.

John: What do you think about this suggestions?


Martin
...mitmachen beim  DACH-Scratch-Wiki und Scratch-Wiki-Autor werden!

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#37 2008-09-07 09:43:35

johnadmin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-03-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi, TegansPoppy (David).

Thank you very much for testing Scratch on Windows 2000. I tried to set up a Win 2k virtual machine so I could test that, but I did not have the right installation disk.

I will change the download page to reflect this.

  -- John

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#38 2008-09-07 09:59:20

johnadmin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-03-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi, Martin.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments and suggestions.

Re: lists of lists

We decided not to support lists of lists in Scratch. We actually considered that, along with several other design alternatives, such as a spreadsheet-like table structure, before settling on the current list design. We wanted to keep the list design as simple and concrete as possible.

The Scratch list reporter returns a string containing all of the list elements concatenated with spaces between them. This was primarily intended as a way to build sentences and stories, and for use with the "say" block.

Re: color distinction

With the drop-down menu, you can change between a local and global variable. Should the block change color when you make a menu selection? Perhaps we could make it do that in the next release. But there is also the issue of global/local lists. Should the list blocks also change color? If so, that would be four very similar colors (given that they all come from the same category). It might be difficult to tell them apart...

Re: "put VARIABLE in LIST" and "put LIST in VARIABLE"

Good idea! I like the idea of doing string manipulation using lists. We will consider that for a future release.

Re: cloning

This is a frequently-requested feature.

As you may know, we tried cloning in an earlier (non-public) version of Scratch and ran into a number complications. Using cloning was tricky for both beginners and experts. We fixed some of the problems (e.g. we put a limit on the total number of clones to prevent run-away cloning from slowing Scratch to the point where you had to just force-quit), but we were still not happy with the design. Recently, however, we had some new ideas about cloning, so we may try it again, at least as an offline experiment.

Stay tuned for further developments...

  -- John

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#39 2008-09-07 10:07:19

johnadmin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-03-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

jcubed wrote:

still, it would be nice to be able to compair a veriable without making another

I agree. We'll see what we can about that in the next release.

  -- John

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#40 2008-09-07 10:16:21

RagnARok
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-09-07
Posts: 20

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

<forever if>scratch 1.3 is awesome!

Last edited by RagnARok (2008-09-07 10:17:40)

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#41 2008-09-07 10:18:02

rameninabowl
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-12-26
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

um,does downloading the newest version erase your old version of scratch and/or projects?please reply soon!


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#42 2008-09-07 11:16:42

GameMan43
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-01-08
Posts: 6

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

When I Downloaded It It Deleted All The Projects Off Of My Computer Help!!!!

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#43 2008-09-07 11:49:08

skaterz41
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-03-30
Posts: 5

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

this is great!

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#44 2008-09-07 12:13:18

N-Wear
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-08-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

I just uploaded a 1.3 project. I tried it online, but it didn't work. I had it so a list would be showing, but it wasn't there. I also wanted it to let you enter some amounts and use them later. Here is the link: (Link To Project)
I think the online scratch isn't updated for 1.3, because on my program it adds amounts to a list. When the list had at least 2 items, you could click done. But even after I added two, it didn't do any thing.


If bread crumbs are better than nothing. And nothing is better than cheese cake. Then, bread crumbs are better than cheese cake!  smile
The following sentence is true. The previous sentence is false.  hmm                              Treat others the way you want to be treated!  big_smile

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#45 2008-09-07 15:14:02

MartinWollenweber
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-04-10
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

I also made a list based projekt (the game Senso) to test the new 1.3 capibilities.
It doesn't work online.
find it at:
http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/MartinWollenweber/260260

Please dear Scratch team: Solve that problem.
Thank you in advance!


Martin
...mitmachen beim  DACH-Scratch-Wiki und Scratch-Wiki-Autor werden!

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#46 2008-09-07 15:44:24

MartinWollenweber
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-04-10
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi John,

thank you for your detailed answer: I'm always positively astonished how fast and interested the Scratch team reacts to suggestions. That's very motivating!

here my feedback to your answers:

Re: lists of lists
So, you should not allow to put a list variable into a list: In 1.3 you can!!! (but naturally  it doesn't have an effect)

Re: color distinction
in Scratch 1.2 local and global variables had different kinds of orange color. in 1.3 you use the same colors to distinct variables form lists, but lost the distinction between locals an globals: Get it back - get it both - that's what I meant! If four different kinds of orange are to difficult, perhaps you can make an other difference (e.g. a small dot or a frame in a variable or list-block, that shows that it is local).


Re: "put VARIABLE in LIST" and "put LIST in VARIABLE"
Thank you for considering the idea: I would love to have it in 1.4 :-)

Re: cloning
Please read my suggestion (above): Perhaps that could be a start for a solution ?
I would be delighted if you would solve this matter and make it easy and consistent to use a kind of cloning. I think the most difficult thing  is an understandable interface, that doesn't disturb Scratch starters. Perhaps if you avoid run-time cloning, it's all easier: What do you think about the "Array-Of-Sprite" idea described above, with it's two representation-views in the Sprite-Pane?

Last edited by MartinWollenweber (2008-09-08 13:34:23)


Martin
...mitmachen beim  DACH-Scratch-Wiki und Scratch-Wiki-Autor werden!

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#47 2008-09-07 17:26:33

Paddle2See
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

GameMan43 wrote:

When I Downloaded It It Deleted All The Projects Off Of My Computer Help

Scratch Team...is this possible?  Deletion of projects when installing version 1.3?  Or is it more likely that the files are just lost in some obscure folder?

GameMan43 - have you tried searching your entire disk drive for .sb files (Scratch projects) including hidden files and folders?  It is possible they may be hiding somewhere.  What is your operating system on your PC?


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#48 2008-09-07 17:36:26

coolstuff
Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-06
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

GameMan43 wrote:

When I Downloaded It It Deleted All The Projects Off Of My Computer Help!!!!

Try searching your entire hard drive for *.sb
(actually search *.sb)

Last edited by coolstuff (2008-09-07 17:36:47)

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#49 2008-09-08 01:51:52

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi loopy, I just checked the pick random block, and it seems to work fine. It's a reporter block, so you need to drop it into another block (e.g. a 'say' block) to actually "see" something. Try this little script:

[blocks]<say[ <pick random( 1 )to( 12 ]for( 2 )secs>[/blocks]
Then double click on the script a couple of time to see different random results.

Does that work for you?


Jens Mönig

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#50 2008-09-08 08:46:04

johnadmin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2007-03-13
Posts: 100+

Re: Scratch 1.3 is now available for download.

Hi, all.

The Scratch 1.3 installer does not delete user-created projects. I've tested it carefully. In at least case, someone who thought their projects had been deleted found that they were there after all. So if you think your projects were deleted, restart Scratch and look again; they should still be there.

NOTE: Scratch does replace the old sample projects with new ones. If you edited one of the sample projects and did not save it with a different name, you should be sure to either rename it or make a copy of it outside of the Scratch folder before you update to Scratch 1.3.

The installer only changes files in the Scratch folder, so if you normally keep your projects somewhere else (such as your home folder or on the desktop), they are safe. If you keep your projects inside the Scratch folder, it's a good idea to make a copy of your Scratch projects outside of the Scratch folder before updating to Scratch 1.3.

Please report any problems using the contact form:

  http://scratch.mit.edu/contact/us

  -- John

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