Scratch

JuiceyBox wrote:

Seeing how I can name quite a few people on Scratch who have no problem downloading and stealing art or music from others' projects, I think it would be nice to have the option to allow downloading on a project or not when we post it to the website. That way, sprites or music that we wanted to keep for ourselves wouldn't be taken by others, and projects we wanted to share could be.

But wouldn't the option to refuse download be against Scratch's motto to imagine, program, and share? Honestly, if I didn't want other people taking the art and music form my projects, I would post my projects on my own personal site and set my own Creative Commons/copyright license or not upload my project to the Scratch website at all.

It's not to say I don't understand: I've been the victim of art theft a couple of times, and getting art and music thieves to stop can be stressful. But refusing download isn't really the way to go if one doesn't want people ripping art and music from Scratch projects.

Perhaps a better option will be a way to embed some kind of signature or identifier in images and music from other projects: that way, someone can still track down the original project a sprite image or music came from.

JuiceyBox wrote:

Seeing how I can name quite a few people on Scratch who have no problem downloading and stealing art or music from others' projects, I think it would be nice to have the option to allow downloading on a project or not when we post it to the website. That way, sprites or music that we wanted to keep for ourselves wouldn't be taken by others, and projects we wanted to share could be.

Please, it's more like those Fight Against Web Pirates thing. Let Scratch be free from copyright and intellectual property as long you give a credit, and the auto-credit feature gives ability to track projects back to the first project.
It reminds me about the time when on each DVD was included a short ad about "movie piracy". Those slogans were "Downloading pirated from Internet is a theft. Theft is a crime.". We don't want to have those here, right?

The-Whiz wrote:

I know they do that with blocks...

I still do think it is a good idea; I made a four minute long song in GarageBand, and I am afraid to post a project with this song included for fear that someone would take it and use it in their projects and say they made it. Some people spend a lot of time doing making music and sprites, and I, for one, would not want to have them taken.

If, however, the person taking sprites or music gives a reasonable amount of credit, it is ok.

But I understand that the point of Scratch is Imagine, Program, Share, but sometimes people need to Imagine by themselves and make their own sprites or music instead of taking someone else's without giving credit.

You can cut the song into pieces, make a sprite for each piece and make a scripts to play the song, like: When flag clicked, play sound "Piece1.mp3" until done, then broadcast "Piece2" -> When I receive "Piece2", play sound "Piece2.mp3" until done, then broadcast "Piece3" -> (...)
The people who steal sometimes get stuck on those things, so they have to import your scripts, and guess what - yes, the auto-crediting system catches this and pulls out your name.

I do but I just got a new computer and an in-computer microphone for ripping off stu- I mean recording stuff is such a drag to re-install.

filo5 wrote:

The-Whiz wrote:

I know they do that with blocks...

I still do think it is a good idea; I made a four minute long song in GarageBand, and I am afraid to post a project with this song included for fear that someone would take it and use it in their projects and say they made it. Some people spend a lot of time doing making music and sprites, and I, for one, would not want to have them taken.

If, however, the person taking sprites or music gives a reasonable amount of credit, it is ok.

But I understand that the point of Scratch is Imagine, Program, Share, but sometimes people need to Imagine by themselves and make their own sprites or music instead of taking someone else's without giving credit.

You can cut the song into pieces, make a sprite for each piece and make a scripts to play the song, like: When flag clicked, play sound "Piece1.mp3" until done, then broadcast "Piece2" -> When I receive "Piece2", play sound "Piece2.mp3" until done, then broadcast "Piece3" -> (...)
The people who steal sometimes get stuck on those things, so they have to import your scripts, and guess what - yes, the auto-crediting system catches this and pulls out your name.

Using that method seems tedious. And it's not that hard to crack. I've figured it out before.

obviously norbert was joking
he makes his own sprites
I help him sometimes too

MahoAshley wrote:

I thought about this once, but really i learned its not such a good idea.

Being an artist ( and a good one at that ) almost everyday i get on scratch i find one person tracing/coloring over/stealing my art. Yes its stressful but if you disable downloads, people whose java doesn't work on the internet and have to download to view would lose out on being able to view projects ( I'm not sure if someone said that above i have a headache and didn't feel like reading all the posts  x_x ).
Also someone might want to download to look at scripting, ( ex: you did something really cool with script and someone wanted to see how you did it to get ideas ) wouldn't be able to, and there not really doing any harm.

Therefore, me and karionesukie ( we've like had this idea for a long time xD ) both were thinking and maybe disabling remix feature would be a better suggestion to the scratch team.

i dont think he means disabling downloading, disabling remix would be a good idea but then again there are many remix projects like add blabla to blablas grave. mabye permission to remix.  anotehr problem: when people download they can just rip your art and save it as a sprite, so it wouldnt show as a remix

MahoAshley wrote:

I thought about this once, but really i learned its not such a good idea.

Being an artist ( and a good one at that ) almost everyday i get on scratch i find one person tracing/coloring over/stealing my art. Yes its stressful but if you disable downloads, people whose java doesn't work on the internet and have to download to view would lose out on being able to view projects ( I'm not sure if someone said that above i have a headache and didn't feel like reading all the posts  x_x ).
Also someone might want to download to look at scripting, ( ex: you did something really cool with script and someone wanted to see how you did it to get ideas ) wouldn't be able to, and there not really doing any harm.

Therefore, me and karionesukie ( we've like had this idea for a long time xD ) both were thinking and maybe disabling remix feature would be a better suggestion to the scratch team.

Hmm, I like the disabling remix feature. Maybe there could be the option for a no-derivative Creative Common License so people can still download and see the scripts, but not alter or export anything.

OKAY NEW IDEA:
How about and option that lets you change things a bit so that, when people downloaded your project, they could view it, but couldn't alter any scripting or sprites in it? Like a lock kind of thing.

cheddargirl wrote:

JuiceyBox wrote:

OKAY NEW IDEA:
How about and option that lets you change things a bit so that, when people downloaded your project, they could view it, but couldn't alter any scripting or sprites in it? Like a lock kind of thing.

Like a read-only project that doesn't allow for remixing. I think that's what MahoAshley was advocating.

Yes, but I then realized: Thieves need just export the art or whatever, then reopen Scratch and import it. Then we're defeated.

pinochio wrote:

what if someone needs help and they want people to edit scripts? so your new idea isnt that great.

This would be an OPTION. Meaning that, in that scenario, that user would opt not to use it.

cheddargirl wrote:

JuiceyBox wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

Like a read-only project that doesn't allow for remixing. I think that's what MahoAshley was advocating.

Yes, but I then realized: Thieves need just export the art or whatever, then reopen Scratch and import it. Then we're defeated.

True, true. It's the reason why I don't my personal musical compositions in there as .wav files in fear of people exporting the music files and using them elsewhere.

That's why I suggested the option to have such a project with export locks (the inability to export sprites, images, and music from a project if the owner so chooses). I guess an import lock will be needed as well for the idea to work. 

Which, sadly, even if this is done, someone can still use a microphone to copy music, use a screenshot to copy an image, copy a certain stack of blocks one by one and claim the code as theirs, etc. -_-

Here is where a lockable download feature would be useful. If someone couldn't download it, they could still steal the sprites and images, but would have to program it themselves. If someone is lazy enough to steal someone else's sprites or music, they are probably too lazy to program it themself.