Scratch

777w wrote:

anyway, i think, unfortunately, the st will not put this idea into action since it would discourage remixing which is a big part of the idea behind scratch

It doesn't discourage remixing, it discourages blatant theft.

777w wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

777w wrote:

anyway, i think, unfortunately, the st will not put this idea into action since it would discourage remixing which is a big part of the idea behind scratch

It doesn't discourage remixing, it discourages blatant theft.

but i dont think theyll do it anyway

It is a large scale problem though. People are learning to share and respect others work, and learning how to be part of a community, which is all great. But they are also learning that theft is not a big problem because they get let off easy.

We have to draw the line somewhere. I love the concept of remixing, and I think it is wonderful. But I hate how easy it is for people to blatantly steal and take all the credit for someone else's work.

northmeister wrote:

Lots of my projects are remixed without the remixer changing anything. I reported them, and it said remixing is allowed and you have to try to support it or something. I agree when they change stuff, but not if they don't change anything. In my minecraft series, someone copied Minecraft Cool Stuff Part 7, kept the title exactly the same (they didn't even change it to part 1 as they hadn't made any before), they kept the notes the same with my upcoming projects and such, and it got quite a few views from people who didn't see the based on sign and thought that they had made it. I've seen quite a few copied projects without a based on link, when the copiers import the project into a new project, and it's completely unacceptable.

Exactly. Just because Scratch is full of kids doesn't mean we can go easy on them when they break rules. Especially rules that will be constant throughout your whole life (Don't steal)

Today I received an admin message saying something along the lines of "Remixing is important and you should uphold the values of it" after I flagged over 5 copies of this.
Edit: Out of all those copies, 2-3 were by the same person.

As much as I support remixing, I cannot support theft.

Last edited by Wes64 (2012-06-16 08:22:45)

northmeister wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

northmeister wrote:

Lots of my projects are remixed without the remixer changing anything. I reported them, and it said remixing is allowed and you have to try to support it or something. I agree when they change stuff, but not if they don't change anything. In my minecraft series, someone copied Minecraft Cool Stuff Part 7, kept the title exactly the same (they didn't even change it to part 1 as they hadn't made any before), they kept the notes the same with my upcoming projects and such, and it got quite a few views from people who didn't see the based on sign and thought that they had made it. I've seen quite a few copied projects without a based on link, when the copiers import the project into a new project, and it's completely unacceptable.

Exactly. Just because Scratch is full of kids doesn't mean we can go easy on them when they break rules. Especially rules that will be constant throughout your whole life (Don't steal)

Today I received an admin message saying something along the lines of "Remixing is important and you should uphold the values of it" after I flagged over 5 copies of this.
Edit: Out of all those copies, 2-3 were by the same person.

As much as I support remixing, I cannot support theft.

Were they remixes, or was there no 'based on' link? It doesn't say there are any remixes, so how can the ST send you that message when they didn't remix, they just copied?

For some reason they showed up as remixes of this. I'm not sure why, must be a glitch.

There were based-on links, but I think the scratch team misunderstood my flagging due to the glitch.

Edit: I emailed that to the scratch team so it will probably be sorted out.

Last edited by Wes64 (2012-06-16 08:38:48)

i think the best idea would be to make the "based on" thing more apparent, or even invent a whole new system entirely where, say, it shows a message before the project even starts

There's no such thing as "stealing" projects on the Scratch website - by uploading a project, you agree that anybody can remix it, make changes, and upload it again to share with others. In general though, if a project is a direct copy (without any changes), then you can report it, and it will be removed - otherwise, it will stay.

In my opinion though, I consider it an honor to have one of my projects remixed. It basically means that they really liked the project, so they were inspired to download it, make changes (sometimes), and share it with their friends! The only situation where I might be angry is if somebody copied my project, and got front page.

The first two projects you linked to in your post did have changes, so they are not copies. Most likely the other projects also had changes too. Remember that remixing and making small changes is one of the easiest ways that people learn about how Scratch projects work, and what different blocks do - not all remixes will add a dozen new features. 

While we do very much support remixing - as it is a great way to learn and build on each other's ideas - we do not allow copying of projects.  And we do insist that credit be given to the original author when a project is remixed.  The credit may be the automatic credit : "based on a project by ...".  We also like to see direct acknowledgement from the person making the remix - but the automatic credit is sufficient.

If you feel that a project was copied - or somebody is trying to take all the credit for a project that is a remix - please flag it.  We have moderators that look into any project that is flagged and will try and determine the situation.  If they find that it is a copy or a case of credit stealing, then action is taken.  A simple warning is usually sent for a first offense - since many beginners experiment with the Share button and accidentally can create a copy - but if the activity continues, it can result in an account block.

I'm not sure we need a team of trusted users helping out in this area - at this time anyway.  Just flag it when you see it.  Thanks for the idea though, and we'll keep it in mind.

Paddle2See wrote:

While we do very much support remixing - as it is a great way to learn and build on each other's ideas - we do not allow copying of projects.  And we do insist that credit be given to the original author when a project is remixed.  The credit may be the automatic credit : "based on a project by ...".  We also like to see direct acknowledgement from the person making the remix - but the automatic credit is sufficient.

If you feel that a project was copied - or somebody is trying to take all the credit for a project that is a remix - please flag it.  We have moderators that look into any project that is flagged and will try and determine the situation.  If they find that it is a copy or a case of credit stealing, then action is taken.  A simple warning is usually sent for a first offense - since many beginners experiment with the Share button and accidentally can create a copy - but if the activity continues, it can result in an account block.

I'm not sure we need a team of trusted users helping out in this area - at this time anyway.  Just flag it when you see it.  Thanks for the idea though, and we'll keep it in mind.

Though with 2.0 coming up, i have an idea.
Maybe there is some way that the editor can check to see if the new project file is the exact same as the old one, minus the section about what the project is based on.  True, there would be many ways to cheat this, but at least it would prevent about 90% of direct copies (my estimate), so it may be worth putting into place.
TL,DR: Machine check each file to see if it's a duplicate
TL,DR:TL,DR: Machine check thing for double 

I have never had one of my projects stolen, but I have never had one of my projects remixed.

TorbyFork234 wrote:

I don't support.

Many new scratchers are trying to see how the scratch program works. They look at the front page and say, "Hey, these projects are so good they're on the front page. What is it?"
Then they see it, and sometimes are amazed enough to download it to see how it works. Then they start experimenting by changing a number here and there, changing the color effect by somewhat. It helps them learn about the scratch program.

But, I also flag outright copies, or ones with the exact same project notes with almost no changes. But I think they have the right to upload a tinkered with project.

but what he s talking about is not about remixes. Hes talking about complete copies.

TorbyFork234 wrote:

I don't support.

Many new scratchers are trying to see how the scratch program works. They look at the front page and say, "Hey, these projects are so good they're on the front page. What is it?"
Then they see it, and sometimes are amazed enough to download it to see how it works. Then they start experimenting by changing a number here and there, changing the color effect by somewhat. It helps them learn about the scratch program.

But, I also flag outright copies, or ones with the exact same project notes with almost no changes. But I think they have the right to upload a tinkered with project.

I am mostly talking about complete copies that people are taking credit for. Its ok to do what you described, but not take a copy and say it is your own work.

Wes64 wrote:

As much as I support remixing, I cannot support theft.

The line between theft and remixing on scratch includes minor color changes and "made by someone" somewhere on the page