Scratch

Lightnin · 2012-04-24 17:55:17

As we recently announced, we've made Scratch 1.4 available under the Gnu Public License v2.

This was done in part to make it easier for Linux distros like Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora to integrate scratch into their repositories, so it's easy for their users to install. Our previous license was the major roadblock - but now that the licensing issue is resolved, there's one last major hurdle that we need your help to get over. Scratch no longer works with later versions of the Squeak Virtual Machine (VM). hmm

In the current Linux version of Scratch, we bundle our own (old) VM in the package, but this isn't really the cleanest way to do it - it's better if Scratch depends on the VM package from the distro's repository. But people are getting blank screens when running Scratch on later VMs. Here's what Miriam Ruiz, an awesome super helpful Debian contributor who has been working on packaging Scratch, says:

«It works for me with squeak-vm 4.0.3.2202 (squeeze) but when trying to
run it on squeak-vm 4.4.7 (wheezy) I just get a blank screen. According to
jredrejo, the modification causing this problem might be
related to the changes made to the squeak-vm to be able to run it with
composite managers and compiz.»

My plans are mostly getting a diff between the last VM that works and
the current and start applying patch after patch until it doesn't. I
just have to find a couple of spare hours to do it (I've been totally
overloaded at work the last weeks).

JohnM, our only Squeak developer, is swamped working on Scratch 2.0 and doesn't have time to dive into this. And the rest of us are focused on various things related to 2.0 as well.

Can AT help solve this problem, and figure out what must be done to make Scratch work with later versions of the Squeak VM? (Whether it's changes to the Scratch image, or the VM) It would make it much easier for thousands of free software users to install Scratch. We could really use the help.

The most up to date info about the packaging of Scratch for Debian is here:
http://bugs.debian.org/471927

Thanks for reading!

stevetheipad · 2012-04-24 17:57:11

Eeeek, I don't have an idea. I'll ask jvvg, who's pretty knowledgeable about this kinda stuff. smile

jvvg · 2012-04-24 17:58:21

stevetheipad wrote:
Eeeek, I don't have an idea. I'll ask jvvg, who's pretty knowledgeable about this kinda stuff.

Thanks, but I don't use Linux that much.

stevetheipad · 2012-04-24 17:59:39

jvvg wrote:
stevetheipad wrote:
Eeeek, I don't have an idea. I'll ask jvvg, who's pretty knowledgeable about this kinda stuff.
Thanks, but I don't use Linux that much.

Maybe if you set up a Linux server on your Mac like you said?

jvvg · 2012-04-24 18:52:29

stevetheipad wrote:
jvvg wrote:
stevetheipad wrote:
Eeeek, I don't have an idea. I'll ask jvvg, who's pretty knowledgeable about this kinda stuff.
Thanks, but I don't use Linux that much.
Maybe if you set up a Linux server on your Mac like you said?

Well, if I do that, I will try to get nice GUIs for my tools.
The only Linux-related skills I have is knowing how to operate Apache.

roijac · 2012-04-25 10:41:38

interesting...
i guess i'll try to do something...
probably won't work, but still...

muppetds · 2012-04-25 10:46:33

i can help trailing it and ill do my own research on Squeak VMS
What version of squeak does scratch use?

roijac · 2012-04-25 11:29:53

i think i found something - if you use the same command you usually use with the squeak image, it doesn't find the vm-display-X11 file...

Lightnin · 2012-04-25 12:56:16

muppetds wrote:
i can help trailing it and ill do my own research on Squeak VMS
What version of squeak does scratch use?

Great!
Here's the vm version that ships with the current Scratch package available on the download page:

3.10-4 #1 Tue Feb 17 15:08:23 WIT 2009 gcc 4.3.2
Squeak3.10beta of 22 July 2007 [latest update: #7159]

Lightnin · 2012-04-25 12:58:25

roijac wrote:
i think i found something - if you use the same command you usually use with the squeak image, it doesn't find the vm-display-X11 file...

Hmm.. you mean in /usr/bin/scratch ?
There should be a way to specify the plugins location. That could have something to do with the problem, but I'd of thought the folks on the debian bug thread would've figured that one out... Maybe mention it there?

muppetds · 2012-04-25 13:12:41

Lightnin wrote:
muppetds wrote:
i can help trailing it and ill do my own research on Squeak VMS
What version of squeak does scratch use?
Great!
Here's the vm version that ships with the current Scratch package available on the download page:

3.10-4 #1 Tue Feb 17 15:08:23 WIT 2009 gcc 4.3.2
Squeak3.10beta of 22 July 2007 [latest update: #7159]

July 2007
and what is the version that Debian, ubuntu e.t.c have?

Lightnin · 2012-04-25 18:44:38

muppetds wrote:
Lightnin wrote:
muppetds wrote:
i can help trailing it and ill do my own research on Squeak VMS
What version of squeak does scratch use?
Great!
Here's the vm version that ships with the current Scratch package available on the download page:

3.10-4 #1 Tue Feb 17 15:08:23 WIT 2009 gcc 4.3.2
Squeak3.10beta of 22 July 2007 [latest update: #7159]
July 2007
and what is the version that Debian, ubuntu e.t.c have?

Probably easiest to focus on Debian for now:

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=squeak-vm

Jrocket97 · 2012-04-25 20:51:57

I'd try, but given my history with trying to do anything to mod scratch, I'd just mess it up. Best of luck to you guys fixing it though.

SJRCS_011 · 2012-04-25 21:12:07

jvvg wrote:
stevetheipad wrote:
Eeeek, I don't have an idea. I'll ask jvvg, who's pretty knowledgeable about this kinda stuff.
Thanks, but I don't use Linux that much.

I actually know someone in the AT who at least has a Linux machine (GP1)
I wonder if he'll be willing to help
I'll also do some research into it, but be warned, I only have experience with PC's

muppetds · 2012-04-26 02:07:31

Lightnin wrote:
muppetds wrote:
Lightnin wrote:

Great!
Here's the vm version that ships with the current Scratch package available on the download page:

3.10-4 #1 Tue Feb 17 15:08:23 WIT 2009 gcc 4.3.2
Squeak3.10beta of 22 July 2007 [latest update: #7159]
July 2007
and what is the version that Debian, ubuntu e.t.c have?
Probably easiest to focus on Debian for now:

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=squeak-vm

what is the difference between 3.10.3 and 3.10 beta - i find it hard to believe that there is a major difference between the two

nathanprocks · 2012-04-26 02:35:50

I have Ubuntu 11.10 on my notebook PC. Is it anything to do with the plugins? I tried running it with squeak -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins -vm-sound-pulse /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image and it gave the output:

Code:

nathan@nathan-Compaq-Presario-CQ61-Notebook-PC:~$ squeak -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins -vm-sound-pulse /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image
found gettext in path
/home/nathan
could not find display driver vm-display-X11; either:
  - check that /usr/lib/squeak/4.4.7-2357/vm-display-X11.so exists, or
  - use the '-plugins <path>' option to tell me where it is, or
  - remove DISPLAY from your environment.
/usr/bin/squeak: line 277:  3651 Aborted                 $VM "$1" "$2"

Last edited by nathanprocks (2012-04-26 02:37:32)

muppetds · 2012-04-26 02:53:01

yes i think that is a problem as i got a similar error just now when i tried it
So we need to work out where the actual file is

nathanprocks · 2012-04-26 02:55:23

muppetds wrote:
yes i think that is a problem as i got a similar error just now when i tried it
So we need to work out where the actual file is

All I know is that the Scratch plugins are in /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins

muppetds · 2012-04-26 03:08:03

nathanprocks wrote:
muppetds wrote:
yes i think that is a problem as i got a similar error just now when i tried it
So we need to work out where the actual file is
All I know is that the Scratch plugins are in /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins

go there and see if the file actually exists?

nathanprocks · 2012-04-26 03:27:25

muppetds wrote:
nathanprocks wrote:
muppetds wrote:
yes i think that is a problem as i got a similar error just now when i tried it
So we need to work out where the actual file is
All I know is that the Scratch plugins are in /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins
go there and see if the file actually exists?

I will have a good look at it later.

Lightnin · 2012-04-26 10:30:33

nathanprocks wrote:
I have Ubuntu 11.10 on my notebook PC. Is it anything to do with the plugins? I tried running it with squeak -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins -vm-sound-pulse /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image and it gave the output:
Code:
nathan@nathan-Compaq-Presario-CQ61-Notebook-PC:~$ squeak -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins -vm-sound-pulse /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image
found gettext in path
/home/nathan
could not find display driver vm-display-X11; either:
  - check that /usr/lib/squeak/4.4.7-2357/vm-display-X11.so exists, or
  - use the '-plugins <path>' option to tell me where it is, or
  - remove DISPLAY from your environment.
/usr/bin/squeak: line 277:  3651 Aborted                 $VM "$1" "$2"

Thanks for looking into this!

Ah - yes, if you use the VM from the repositories, then it has its own plugin location, different from Scratch's.

For testing purposes, it's probably easiest to copy CameraPlugin, UnicodePlugin, and ScratchPlugin from /usr/lib/scratch into the Squeak package's plugins directory (will be unique for each version you test with). Then make the -plugins path point to the Squeak VM's plugin directory. That way it'll use its own X11 plugin.

Last edited by Lightnin (2012-04-26 10:32:01)

muppetds · 2012-04-26 10:40:12

Lightnin wrote:
nathanprocks wrote:
I have Ubuntu 11.10 on my notebook PC. Is it anything to do with the plugins? I tried running it with squeak -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins -vm-sound-pulse /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image and it gave the output:
Code:
nathan@nathan-Compaq-Presario-CQ61-Notebook-PC:~$ squeak -plugins /usr/lib/scratch/Plugins -vm-sound-pulse /usr/lib/scratch/Scratch.image
found gettext in path
/home/nathan
could not find display driver vm-display-X11; either:
  - check that /usr/lib/squeak/4.4.7-2357/vm-display-X11.so exists, or
  - use the '-plugins <path>' option to tell me where it is, or
  - remove DISPLAY from your environment.
/usr/bin/squeak: line 277:  3651 Aborted                 $VM "$1" "$2"
Thanks for looking into this!

Ah - yes, if you use the VM from the repositories, then it has its own plugin location, different from Scratch's.

For testing purposes, it's probably easiest to copy CameraPlugin, UnicodePlugin, and ScratchPlugin from /usr/lib/scratch into the Squeak package's plugins directory (will be unique for each version you test with). Then make the -plugins path point to the Squeak VM's plugin directory. That way it'll use its own X11 plugin.

Is it possible for scratch to search for the OS and thus find the necessary location?

muppetds · 2012-04-27 02:44:02

Offtopic

Why is your squeak dev working on scratch 2.0 if its in flash?

nathanprocks · 2012-04-27 05:05:51

muppetds wrote:
Offtopic

Why is your squeak dev working on scratch 2.0 if its in flash?

I was wondering that too lol.

roijac · 2012-04-27 06:43:44

my point is, maybe the new plugin is the problem?

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2012-04-24 17:55:17

Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#2 2012-04-24 17:57:11

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#3 2012-04-24 17:58:21

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

stevetheipad wrote:

#4 2012-04-24 17:59:39

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

jvvg wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

#5 2012-04-24 18:52:29

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

stevetheipad wrote:

jvvg wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

#6 2012-04-25 10:41:38

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#7 2012-04-25 10:46:33

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#8 2012-04-25 11:29:53

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#9 2012-04-25 12:56:16

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

muppetds wrote:

#10 2012-04-25 12:58:25

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

roijac wrote:

#11 2012-04-25 13:12:41

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

Lightnin wrote:

muppetds wrote:

#12 2012-04-25 18:44:38

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

muppetds wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

muppetds wrote:

#13 2012-04-25 20:51:57

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#14 2012-04-25 21:12:07

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

jvvg wrote:

stevetheipad wrote:

#15 2012-04-26 02:07:31

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

Lightnin wrote:

muppetds wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

#16 2012-04-26 02:35:50

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

Code:

#17 2012-04-26 02:53:01

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#18 2012-04-26 02:55:23

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

muppetds wrote:

#19 2012-04-26 03:08:03

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

nathanprocks wrote:

muppetds wrote:

#20 2012-04-26 03:27:25

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

muppetds wrote:

nathanprocks wrote:

muppetds wrote:

#21 2012-04-26 10:30:33

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

nathanprocks wrote:

Code:

#22 2012-04-26 10:40:12

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

Lightnin wrote:

nathanprocks wrote:

Code:

#23 2012-04-27 02:44:02

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....

#24 2012-04-27 05:05:51

Re: Help get Scratch into Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora....