Scratch

Uncanny wrote:

I think it is kinda cool what the accelerator does... absolute zero, complete vacuum, light speed particles... but I don't think it is going to work properly, let alone create a black hole.

You make it sound like working properly and making a black hole are the same thing! Anyway, it does create tiny black holes but they vaporize INSTANTLY. And by instantly, I mean it. Some things are just impossible, the LHC destroying the Earth is one of them. (Destroying the economy with upkeep costs, naysayers, does NOT count.)

I care about everyone on earth, and so I am replying.

Go science!  Untangle the mysteries of the universe, and continue to improve the lot of mankind, just as you have since humanity first started looking for answers instead of accepting "Oh, god did it."

Science is awesome!

Last edited by Mayhem (2009-03-17 17:31:34)

big-bang wrote:

Yumi9989_9989 wrote:

THE BIG BANG ISNT REAL!!!! Gosh,these scientests are probly bored. Y WOULD THEY RISK THAT MUCH FOR SOMETHINNG THAT NEVER HAPPENED???????????? reply if you care about everyone on earth living<pen down>

Why would people risk ignorance to make religion? Reply if you care about a future where the Earth isn't a cloud of radioactive gas.

The big bang is freaking real!!! In fact, I think there were multiple leading to the big bounce theroy(an article in IEEE spectrum).

PokemonMaster64 wrote:

big-bang wrote:

Uncanny wrote:

I think it is kinda cool what the accelerator does... absolute zero, complete vacuum, light speed particles... but I don't think it is going to work properly, let alone create a black hole.

You make it sound like working properly and making a black hole are the same thing! Anyway, it does create tiny black holes but they vaporize INSTANTLY. And by instantly, I mean it. Some things are just impossible, the LHC destroying the Earth is one of them. (Destroying the economy with upkeep costs, naysayers, does NOT count.)

You said on another topic that you were ten... How often do you read science textbooks???

Two per month.

big-bang wrote:

PokemonMaster64 wrote:

You said on another topic that you were ten... How often do you read science textbooks???

Two per month.

You remind me of me (I'm 10 too).

While it has been a long time since this topic was last used, I'll make a post on it anyway.

There are a vast number of ways the LHC could help us. In fact, I am currently writing a research essay on the LHC, so I suppose I'll just copy & paste the first section of that:

    The Large Hadron Collider – or the LHC – is an extremely complex piece of equipment. It was made for the purpose of answering a few of the many unanswered questions about our universe, including how our universe was created. It is said that the collisions, if powerful enough, might recreate some particles and elements that existed only for a moment after the famous Big Bang occurred, which may lead us to the answer of if it really did occur. It does, however, like most things in the world, have a downside: some believe that the nuclear reactions could create a black hole.

    It works by speeding up particles to 99.99 percent the speed of light, then causing a collision between two particles that could literally blow the particles apart, hence the part of the name “Collider”.

    Knowing the cause for the “Collider” in the name, it is easy to decipher the rest. “Large” is glaringly obvious, as the LHC is nearly a whopping 27 kilometers, passing through both Switzerland and France, ranging from fifty to 175 meters below the ground.1 The 3.8 meter wide tunnel is lined with concrete (a substance that can be used as a barrier from nuclear radiation). The final word in the LHC’s title left to discuss is “Hadron,” which, unfortunately, is a little less easy to unveil. It brings us right into the world of physics, and shows us just how the LHC can do what it does, and the questions it could answer.

    According to Dictionary.com, a hadron is “any elementary particle that is subject to the strong interaction. Hadrons are subdivided into baryons and mesons.”2 A “baryon” is an elementary particle (lepton, photon, graviton, or hadron, also called a fundamental particle2) that can decay (or change instantaneously) into an atom that includes a proton. A “meson” is any hadron that is not a baryon.

    Atoms consist of a number of particles. Every physical thing (called matter) is made of atoms, and therefore, particles. Atoms have many varieties, called elements. There are 117 known elements, 92 of which have been known to occur naturally on Earth1.  Every element has an electric charge, determined by that of the particles is consists of (protons, neutrons, and electrons). Therefore, if an atom has two positive protons and one negative electron, the charge of the atom would be +1. Protons and neutrons are stuck to a nucleus (the center of the atom), which is generally very small. Around it, electrons orbit the nucleus at different distances from it. Each distance, which is somewhat like a ring, is called a shell.5

    What the Collider is trying to do is split atoms apart. However, that is not easy. Scientists cannot simply take a knife and slice the atom in half. The only way to get it apart is by force. An atom needs extreme amounts of energy to break apart; fortunately, some elements already are unstable and have far too much energy. For example, radioactive uranium has excessive energy already, so it takes only a small portion of energy to split it apart. Once the atom is split, it can create an explosion in uncontrolled circumstances. By colliding particles, the LHC can create exorbitant amounts of energy, thus splitting atoms apart. Splitting atoms apart isn't an idea confined to the science lab, however. For example, smoke detectors rely on atom splitting to function. Americium, element 95 on the periodic table, is constantly splitting itself. The smoke detector measures the energy made from this atom split. When smoke gets into the detector, it acts as a barrier between the splitting atoms and the detector. When the smoke detector can no longer sense any energy from the splitting, it sounds off an alarm.5

    Scientists all want to know what is going on in the universe and how it’s happening. In an attempt to discover this, scientists have created a theory called the “standard model”, which combines theories proposed by Einstein’s famous theory of relativity and quantum theory adding in other things such as three of the four fundamental forces (strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, and electromagnetic force).4 Although the standard model is based upon the results of numerous experiments, it is a theory and nothing in it has been proven true.

    One of the most questionable items depicted in the standard model is a Higgs Boson particle, which is the simplest and most reliable theory on the topic of why matter has mass.4 However, this is the only particle in the standard model to hqave never been formally observed, so it quite possibly does not exist. Some scientists even hope that the LHC won't show the Higgs Boson to be true. If there's one thing a scientist likes, it's a good mystery. "I think it will be much more exciting if we don't find the Higgs," says Stephen Hawking, a famous physicist. "That will show something is wrong, and we need to think again. I have a bet of one hundred dollars that we won't find the Higgs." He also comments that "whatever the LHC finds, or fails to find, the results will tell us a lot about the structure of the universe."1

    The LHC can also discover some conditions that occurred only moments after the Big Bang happened. Colliding particles is exactly how the Big Bang itself happened, and thus we may recreate a few things from that time. One thing that only existed at the time was something called antimatter, which is somewhat like matter's evil twin. When it meets its normal self, both itself and the normal counterpart would annihilate. When the universe first began, matter and energy were as one. They soon separated, leaving the matter and antimatter free to annihilate eachother. For every bit of antimatter, one piece of matter and antimatter would disappear; for every bit of matter, one piece of antimatter and matter would disappear. Fortunately, there was more matter than there was antimatter, and therefore it left some matter. Scientists hope that the LHC might uncover evidence of why the Big Bang created slightly more matter than antimatter.4

    Even more mysterious than antimatter is dark matter. What do we know about it? Nearly nothing. However, "normal" matter can only account for four percent of the matter in the universe, according to recent studies. Dark matter is a hypothetical matter we know barely anything about.3, 4, 6 What we do know is this: it can account for twenty-two percent of the matter in the universe, it has mass, it is undetectable by it's radiation, and it can go right through normal matter as if it weren't there. It is much heavier than "normal" matter.

    At first, scientists thought they knew everything about the universe. Everything consisted of matter, matter consisted of atoms, atoms consisted of particles, which, combined in different ways, get you different varieties of atoms. But they were soon proved wrong. A scientist named Vera Rubin didn't find anything - literally. She saw that the galaxies she was examining weren't behaving in the correct way. Something she couldn't see was making them change their habits.6 Scientists named it dark matter, because they couldn't see it and knew nothing about it.

    The remaining seventy-four percent of matter in the universe should, if scientists are correct, be made up of dark energy. Recent ideas have suggested that dark matter and dark energy are related. But what do we know about dark energy? Nothing. But scientists hope the much-disputed LHC could give us clues as to what dark matter and dark energy are.

    Two theories explain the universe - quantum mechanics and general relativity. Quantum mechanics deals with the behaviour of atoms, while general relativity tells us how gravity keeps the universe together. However, they can't both be right. While quantum mechanics is usually dealing with tiny things such as atoms and general relativity usually deals with extremely large things such as stars, what if a star gets as tiny as an atom? It seems scientists have hit a snag.

    It is possible for a star to become as small as an atom inside a black hole.  A black hole has a gravity so powerful that not even light can get away from it (the reason it is black). It gobbles up whatever comes near it, its gravity squashing the unfortunate bits of matter to the size of an atom. A black hole is formed when a star dies. While it collapses, its gravity is too strong for itself. It continues to shrink until something happens. Scientists don't know what, yet. Eventually, it turns into a black hole. The Collider could give us some evidence about black holes and tell us which theory - general relativity or quantum mechanics - is correct.

    It's even possible that the LHC could uncover hidden dimensions. Though we live in four dimensions only (three geometrical and time), some physicists perceive that there may be several more – for example, the string theory proposes that there are no less than eleven dimensions. The string theory states that particles don't exist, but rather the universe is made up of several "strings", which can be open ended or closed.4 The string can vibrate, and the formation of the string combined with the vibrations can change the type of particle equivalent it may be, whether neutrino (a weightless particle), electron, or anything else.

    The string theory, however, has next to no supporting evidence, and therefore scientists everywhere often criticize it. However, it can add gravity – the fourth fundamental force – into the standard model and make the theory of relativity coincide with quantum field theory. Still, scientists often dismiss the string theory as a simple philosophy.4 The LHC, however, may change critics' minds.

    While gravity is a fairly strong force, it isn't exactly the strongest. In fact, of the four fundamental forces, it is the weakest of them all by far. Why is this so? Some believe that gravity is actually just as strong as the other forces, but extends into the extra dimensions predicted by the string theory or similar theories, which makes it seem weaker here on Earth. These dimensions are rolled up so tightly that it doesn't affect us, but the gravitons (force particles) are so small they can enter those dimensions. If indeed there are extra dimensions, then it seems quite a reasonable theory. So are there extra dimensions? It's possible. But what if there is not? Why is gravity so much weaker than the other fundamental forces? This is yet another question the LHC could answer.

    Other scientists speculate that when forces reach extremely high energies, three of the four fundamental forces fuse together into a single unified field. This theory is often known as Grand Unification, or the grand unified theory, often referred to as the GUT.1 There is, however, very close to no evidence for this theory, and it is often disregarded. The LHC can, once again, answer this question.

    Another aspect of the Collider is looking for supersymmetry. The standard model states that every particle has an antiparticle (for example, the antiparticle to an electron is a positron). Supersymmetry also states that particles have superpartners, which are particles less common, but still fairly similar, to their normal equivalent. These superpartners have their own antiparticles, meaning that each particle would have three other equivalents and opposites. This is yet another theory that the LHC may prove right or wrong. If it is proved correct, we're another step closer to discovering what dark matter and dark energy is and another step closer to fitting gravity into the standard model. We would be another step closer to deciphering the universe.4

    In summary, a lot of questions can be answered by the LHC. We can find out much about the standard model, and if it is indeed correct. The standard model depicts the Higgs boson, which the LHC could also discover much about. The big bang can be proven correct or not. The reason there was more matter than antimatter in the beginning stages of the universe could be discovered. It is possible that we could discover the nature of dark matter and dark energy. We can learn about quantum mechanics and general relativity and which is correct (as only one can be). We can discover a lot about black holes. The Collider has the ability to predict whether or not the string theory is correct, if there are multiple dimensions, and why gravity is so weak. It can predict whether the GUT is indeed a true theory. Finally, it can prove supersymmetry right or wrong. For one machine to answer so many questions about the universe is quite a feat.

    It is, however, possible that the LHC can more than just answer questions about black holes - it could create one. Some critics speculate the LHC may even be the end of the world. The chances, however are extremely slim and the Collider can make so many advances in science. There is no certain bet that we will discover what this essay says we will - it's just what scientists think. It's possible that we could discover nothing.

(That's the end of the essay thing)

Now, I conducted an interview to aid me with this project, so I'll copy and paste the black hole part of it:

Question: What is the chance that the LHC could create a lasting black hole?
Answer: Scientists at the CERN used to be entirely honest with this answer, and they would say, it's a very very small chance, so small that it can be ignored.  But, people took this as "it's very unlikely, but the earth could be swallowed by a black hole, and the scientists are ignoring it."  I haven't run the numbers myself (and I probably couldn't), but I've heard physicists explain this small chance: the LHC would have to run longer than the lifetime of the universe in order for this to happen.  In physics on the quantum level, almost anything is theoretically possible, so physicists get used to measuring what is probable.  And when you get a statistic like ten years divided by 13.7 billion, you get a very small number, but it still means zero.  There are other reasons, having to do with tiny black holes that nature could create, why we know that the LHC is not the end of the world.

(That interview was conducted by me and the questions were answered by Kate McAlpine, the person who did the LHC rap. For the full interview, go here.)

So there you have it. No LHC destroying the earth. Most of the criticism seems to be based upon fear of the unknown, which is similar to fear of darkness.

tigersrule101 wrote:

Bluestribute wrote:

Bobby500 wrote:

Now see, its impossible to prove the bible wrong because that is the only written record from that timeframe. However, there is nothing to prove it right either. And I don't think the flood happened or al of those references to mythical creatures in it exist buuut they could be just some storys in a really old book.  It would be hilarious if 2000 years from now we find out that harry potter became a religion.    No offense to any christians out there.

The bible is basically one religion. each religion's books (like the Bible and Torah) say different things that contradict each other and science. but how else will they prove the universe was created without tests? Plus, it is just a THEORY, not fact (yet)

welll ummm lol there has been proved the WORLD WAS FLOODED thing is fake becuse theres no way that any of the facts in it were real thay proved it....

O.k  so this is flodding                             

lol thats a long pooost. hadron colliders are TANK

Thermodynamically, the spontaneous creation of something from nothing makes perfect sense.

The laws of thermodynamics imply that over time, things become less ordered, more chaotic.

"Something" is more chaotic than "nothing" ergo thermodynamically, it was a given that if there was nothing, it would turn onto something.

the big bang made the start of the universe how:

two atoms collided at high speed

Oh cool, Mark Twain! He's my favorite author!!!!!! Tom Sawyer is my favorite book! Second favorite, Huckleberry Finn.

All4one wrote:

OMG!!!!!!! I can't believe it! Somebody should make a compaign about this, go on strike! With signs that say, "Don't kill the Earth! Stop the black holes!" Or something like that. HELP US, GOOD LORD!

Two Hawaiian men tried to make a lawsuit about this but failed. How can you stop the black holes? They form naturally in space, so I bid you good luck. So many people don't believe this it's hilarious... face it, science is slowly sliding religion of the cliff of plausibility. Why not get worried about war? It's killed infinitely more people than black holes have.

isanemooey wrote:

wot on earth is happening apparently some scientists are risking the life of everything on earth just to test some machine that replicates wot happened in the big bang apparently miny black holes will b made and they say they disappear as fast as thet're created BUT (and this is a big but) there is a chance they could grow big enough to take the entire planet out of existence HOW COULD THEY DO THAT? i dont care if some new particles could b made wot i care about is the ones that could b distroyed i.e. THE ONES THAT MAKE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


reply if u care about human kind

I REALLY DO CARE, THAT'S WHY I'M REPLYING! I can NOT believe what scientists are doing, and I'm glad you care about science like me. But you probably don't understand. Scientists would never even make one little black hole, I'm sure. Please reply if you think different.