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#76 2010-09-29 18:19:53

coolstuff
Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-06
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

we don't feel comfortable asking Scratchers younger than that to take it on.

Really? Not even 13 year olds? Most things are based on 13, and I did WAY bigger things than community moderators do when I was 11!

Well, I have a feeling it'll be lowered to 13 after this long debate anyway.

It's staying at fourteen - that decision is final.

A lot of what people don't understand is that there's some really subtle aspects of moderation that only somebody really mature can understand.

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#77 2010-09-29 18:22:05

demosthenes
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-02-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

gettysburg11 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

we don't feel comfortable asking Scratchers younger than that to take it on.

Really? Not even 13 year olds? Most things are based on 13, and I did WAY bigger things than community moderators do when I was 11!

I think that's pretty much been the main argument so far.

The 14+ age limit is not perfect, but it is the best the Scratch Team can do. If we start lowering the age limit, where will it stop?

Aren't there exceptional 12 year olds capable of doing this? Should we lower the age limit for them?

14 is an age by which time you've probably seen some of the worst the world has to offer in terms of internet content. You've also had time to deal with different commitments and understand what that means.

You're probably dealing with (or have dealt with) Secondary School Admission, and understand the importance of issues like this.


I've taken a long hiatus, but I still visit sometimes. Give me some time to answer any messages you post on my projects!

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#78 2010-09-29 18:34:59

kiwi95
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-07-02
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

demosthenes wrote:

14 is an age by which time you've probably seen some of the worst the world has to offer in terms of internet content. You've also had time to deal with different commitments and understand what that means.

You're probably dealing with (or have dealt with) Secondary School Admission, and understand the importance of issues like this.

This. A very big this.

Last edited by kiwi95 (2010-09-29 18:36:14)

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#79 2010-09-29 18:46:08

iCode-747
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-11-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

juststickman wrote:

How'd you know my new plans for MIT?

I was using you yesterday.


-End Transmission-

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#80 2010-09-29 18:47:53

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

coolstuff wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

we don't feel comfortable asking Scratchers younger than that to take it on.

Really? Not even 13 year olds? Most things are based on 13, and I did WAY bigger things than community moderators do when I was 11!

Well, I have a feeling it'll be lowered to 13 after this long debate anyway.

It's staying at fourteen - that decision is final.

A lot of what people don't understand is that there's some really subtle aspects of moderation that only somebody really mature can understand.

And you're using the stereotype that everyone under 14 is immature.


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#81 2010-09-29 18:52:31

fg123
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

coolstuff wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:


Really? Not even 13 year olds? Most things are based on 13, and I did WAY bigger things than community moderators do when I was 11!

Well, I have a feeling it'll be lowered to 13 after this long debate anyway.

It's staying at fourteen - that decision is final.

A lot of what people don't understand is that there's some really subtle aspects of moderation that only somebody really mature can understand.

And you're using the stereotype that everyone under 14 is immature.

Or that under 14 isn't sensible.


Hai.

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#82 2010-09-29 18:54:55

emilypie
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-01-30
Posts: 100+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

Ok, that's enough of all of this whining about the 14+ rule. I'm sure it was a hard choice for the scratch team to make, even if I don't agree with it either, we are just going to have to live with it. We will all be fourteen at some point, and when we are we can all start running for mod.

The only thing I'm worried about is how most 14-year-olds act. I mean, the 8th graders at my school, who are around 14, tend to swear a lot and us awesome 7th graders act mature and tell them to stop. >:3 Well, I shouldn't be saying that. I mean, it's not the case for all kids that age, in fact, I actually have a lot of 14 year old friends, which aren't mean at all, and I'll admit are a bit more responsible than me. but I guess I'm just jealous.  tongue

I think 12+ is the better choice, because most of us are mature by middle school, because when you get to Jr. high, consequences are bigger when you're not mature. (or at least in my school.  lol )

Whatever, the scratch team knows best! And who knows? Maybe it will definitely stay 14 for this election, but maybe next time they'll lower it to 13!  big_smile


"Captain Hammer threw a car at my head." -Dr. Horrible

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#83 2010-09-29 18:55:53

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

fg123 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

coolstuff wrote:

It's staying at fourteen - that decision is final.

A lot of what people don't understand is that there's some really subtle aspects of moderation that only somebody really mature can understand.

And you're using the stereotype that everyone under 14 is immature.

Or that under 14 isn't sensible.

Yep. I hate stereotypes.

Before I said what my age was, how old would you think I was?


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#84 2010-09-29 18:58:24

fg123
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

I assume everyone here is 12. xD

I'm probably right. OR 13.

Anyways, WAIT TILL WE ARE 14? Are you crazy?

Thats 2 years, with techology moving so fast, who knows what we have in 2 years? o.O


Hai.

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#85 2010-09-29 18:58:40

demosthenes
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-02-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

It's a shame to hear you think that there is some sort of stereotype. No one here is being stereotypical!

It is a about experience and understanding of the commitment required not about maturity (although that comes with age as well).

As Lightnin himself said:

Lightnin wrote:

I'm sure there are Scratchers who are younger than 14 who are responsible enough, and would do a wonderful job. But being a mod is a big commitment, and we don't feel comfortable asking Scratchers younger than that to take it on.


I've taken a long hiatus, but I still visit sometimes. Give me some time to answer any messages you post on my projects!

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#86 2010-09-29 19:03:43

soupoftomato
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

I understand the age limit, but what's with the dethroning of Dazachi and illusionist?

    They have both been helpful members of the community. Helping in the forums, moving topics, censoring posts and more. They have been in the mist of the disturbing material you set the age limit for, and came out victorious, and didn't say they couldn't handle the job.

    And did you forget you yourself once thought they would be good moderators? Age be darned, you wanted to see them able to help Scratch. I once heard of a law that a currently illegal practice cannot be shut down if the rule was made after the practice was started. So I think you should practice this rule and at least let us keep these two great moderators.

Ohyeah, and forced retirement wasn't the nicest thing ever.


I'm glad to think that the community will always be kind and helpful, the language will always be a fun and easy way to be introduced into programming, the motto will always be: Imagine, Program, Share - Nomolos

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#87 2010-09-29 19:07:11

rufflebee
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-10-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

Well, the Scratch Team could have un-modded anyone they wanted. After all, it has been one full term, right? They may not have been returning (By choice of the Scratch Team) for another term anyway, despite their age.


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#88 2010-09-29 19:08:43

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

demosthenes wrote:

It's a shame to hear you think that there is some sort of stereotype. No one here is being stereotypical!

It is a about experience and understanding of the commitment required not about maturity (although that comes with age as well).

As Lightnin himself said:

Lightnin wrote:

I'm sure there are Scratchers who are younger than 14 who are responsible enough, and would do a wonderful job. But being a mod is a big commitment, and we don't feel comfortable asking Scratchers younger than that to take it on.

I'd be perfectly fine with asking 13 year olds to do a job like that. 13 years old is usually considered the cutoff between kid and teen. That's usually considered when they're old enough to do more adult-like things. Sure, 14 is a tiny bit more mature, but there's no special cutoff for 14 year olds. That's why I think this rule is completely unfair.

EDIT: and for commitment, who said people below 14 can't be committed? I'm on Scratch EVERY SINGLE DAY! I'd say I do just as much as a mod does. I report topics when they need to be moved or closed, I report posts that go against the TOS, and other things. That's EXACTLY what a mod does, but they don't have to tell someone else to do it.

Last edited by ScratchReallyROCKS (2010-09-29 19:13:14)


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#89 2010-09-29 19:10:45

soupoftomato
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

rufflebee wrote:

Well, the Scratch Team could have un-modded anyone they wanted. After all, it has been one full term, right? They may not have been returning (By choice of the Scratch Team) for another term anyway, despite their age.

Yeah, but by the topic post, it sounded as if they were the only ones being dethroned.


I'm glad to think that the community will always be kind and helpful, the language will always be a fun and easy way to be introduced into programming, the motto will always be: Imagine, Program, Share - Nomolos

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#90 2010-09-29 19:18:42

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

Okay let me summarize what I'm talking about. I think that 14 year olds are no different than 13 year olds in terms of maturity. I could understand it if the raised it to, say, 16, but 14 just makes no sense at all.


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#91 2010-09-29 19:21:22

TheSaint
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

emilypie wrote:

Ok, that's enough of all of this whining about the 14+ rule. I'm sure it was a hard choice for the scratch team to make, even if I don't agree with it either, we are just going to have to live with it. We will all be fourteen at some point, and when we are we can all start running for mod.

The only thing I'm worried about is how most 14-year-olds act. I mean, the 8th graders at my school, who are around 14, tend to swear a lot and us awesome 7th graders act mature and tell them to stop. >:3 Well, I shouldn't be saying that. I mean, it's not the case for all kids that age, in fact, I actually have a lot of 14 year old friends, which aren't mean at all, and I'll admit are a bit more responsible than me. but I guess I'm just jealous.  tongue

I think 12+ is the better choice, because most of us are mature by middle school, because when you get to Jr. high, consequences are bigger when you're not mature. (or at least in my school.  lol )

Whatever, the scratch team knows best! And who knows? Maybe it will definitely stay 14 for this election, but maybe next time they'll lower it to 13!  big_smile

Lols, I noticed that the freshmen at my highschool are getting more and more immature each year. Probably off the feeling the get at being in power during eigth grade, although I can't remeber being like that...Anyways, to stop reminiscing...

I agree with the age restriction, and here is why:
1. There are nasty things on the internet, soem that I didn't discover until two years ago, back when I was 15. If 4chan invades, or people start spamming these things, the scratch team doesn't want to send in people who havn't experianced it before. It would not be good for a 12 year old mod to see some of the monsters that lie around the internet.
2. Also, sometimes the spammers attack mods personally. Two years ago, I believe it was, there was a spam attack, and things were said about the loyal scratchs (including myself) that takes a level self confidence, experiance and intestinal fortitude that a lot of younger kids don't have.

I know that there are exceptions to every rule, but in most cases these things are true. Sorry.

PS I am a senoir at my high school, and turning 17 in the upcoming months.

Last edited by TheSaint (2010-09-29 19:21:57)

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#92 2010-09-29 19:21:30

fg123
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Okay let me summarize what I'm talking about. I think that 14 year olds are no different than 13 year olds in terms of maturity. I could understand it if the raised it to, say, 16, but 14 just makes no sense at all.

Exactly. Even 12 would work.  sad


Hai.

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#93 2010-09-29 19:22:55

TheSaint
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

Also, I intend to run as a mod.  big_smile

Last edited by TheSaint (2010-09-29 19:23:05)

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#94 2010-09-29 19:25:47

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

fg123 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Okay let me summarize what I'm talking about. I think that 14 year olds are no different than 13 year olds in terms of maturity. I could understand it if the raised it to, say, 16, but 14 just makes no sense at all.

Exactly. Even 12 would work.  sad

Thank you for accepting my logical logic.


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#95 2010-09-29 19:30:39

TheSaint
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-11-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

fg123 wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Okay let me summarize what I'm talking about. I think that 14 year olds are no different than 13 year olds in terms of maturity. I could understand it if the raised it to, say, 16, but 14 just makes no sense at all.

Exactly. Even 12 would work.  sad

Thank you for accepting my logical logic.

I think rather than maturity, it is experiance that they are looking for. Most kids on scratch are mature simply because they like to learn, and use programming. However, a tweleve year old doesn't have the same experiance as a 13 year old, and a 13 year old doesn't have the same experiance as a 14 year old. Most sites don't allow kids under 13.

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#96 2010-09-29 19:33:55

lilacfuzz101
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-05-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

I understand why you would set an age limit- but let's be honest; 14-year-olds can be immature as any other age. and, as we've seen with illusionist, lower ages can be just as mature. and (as it's been said) people may lie about their age when they sign up. i understand that this was a hard desicion, but i think it should be more based on the person's track record.

what if... (and i understand if this would get too complicated-or be abused in some way) there were two divisions of moderators? 14+ and 14-. when reporting something, the reporter could check a box if they think it should be handeled by an older mod. younger mods would handle stuff like people being mean/flames/ect. normal stuff. and the... more maturity needed reports would be handled by 14+. the reports that get checked wouldn't show up... wherever the mods get alerted.

just wanted to put in my 2 cents.  smile


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#97 2010-09-29 19:34:47

ScratchReallyROCKS
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-04-22
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

TheSaint wrote:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

fg123 wrote:

Exactly. Even 12 would work.  sad

Thank you for accepting my logical logic.

I think rather than maturity, it is experiance that they are looking for. Most kids on scratch are mature simply because they like to learn, and use programming. However, a tweleve year old doesn't have the same experiance as a 13 year old, and a 13 year old doesn't have the same experiance as a 14 year old. Most sites don't allow kids under 13.

Experience like what? I'm over 13 and a half. I only have 5 months before I'm 14. I think I probably have the sane amount of experience as a 14 year old.


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#98 2010-09-29 19:47:44

hoveringninjarock
New Scratcher
Registered: 2010-09-28
Posts: 8

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

You guys, stop the whining. The Scratch Team made a decision. It's final. Just because your not old enough to run doesn't mean you can't help out the community. Mods just make sure things don't get out of whack. You don't have to be a mod to help out on the forums. Flag spam, prevent flame wars etc. Then when you guys turn 14 then heck, run for mod.

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#99 2010-09-29 19:48:03

coolstuff
Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-06
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

Everyone: The decision is final. As moderators, we've known about it for a while, and have had plenty of discussion on this. The rule will be fourteen-year-olds.

For those of you comparing 14-year-olds to 12- and 13-year-olds, I will tell you there is a big difference. In the US of A and most of the world, highschool starts at age 14. When I was in grade 8, I thought "Ha! I'm king of the hill - nobody can defeat me!" But then I got into grade 9, highschool. Now I'm bottom of the stack again. I had a point when I started typing this, but apparently I've forgotten it. The point is, while you may think you've seen everything there is to see (in Elementary school), highschool is loads different. The same goes for age. As a fourteen-year-old, you're probably going to get the most experience you'll ever get, even though you may think as a thirteen-year-old that there's nothing more to it.

It's not about commitment. We are making no stereotypes, it's just that there has to be some sort of cut-off age. Fourteen is quite reasonable as such - it's the age where most kids reach maturity.

And allow me to make one last point: complaining about the age limit really isn't helping prove to us that you're extremely mature.  wink

I'm in the process of writing a topic on what it's like to be a moderator. Expect it in the coming weeks.  smile

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#100 2010-09-29 19:49:14

antimonyarsenide
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: Fall 2010 Community Moderator Elections

That's big news... but I'm still eligible  smile


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No, I'm not back (yet  tongue ), so pretend this is invisible.

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