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#1 2010-07-04 07:28:33

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

"Summer" barred from frontpage?

Scratch Team,

My latest project "Summer" (Found here) is not appearing on any frontpage list. Can you please tell me why it isn't?

Thanks,
RHY3756547

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#2 2010-07-04 07:33:37

what-the
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-10-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

It's not showing up in My Friends' Latest Projects either. Strange?


http://imageshack.us/m/64/9034/ddfss.pngMy site
Find someone post count. Click posts under username. Find number of pages. Times that by 40 for min and 60 for max and you have a rough estimate of post count.

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#3 2010-07-04 08:55:13

Jimmy-Jermaine
New Scratcher
Registered: 2010-06-25
Posts: 100+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Isn't there some thing that if your project gets flagged, it is removed from the front page? Maybe some people flagged it because you blow people up in it.

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#4 2010-07-04 09:59:20

Wolfie1996
Retired Community Moderator
Registered: 2009-07-08
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

I think the Scratch Team can tag a project in a way that means "It's not appropriate for everyone, but most people should be able to view it with no adverse effect". Don't quote me on that, 'cuz I'm not sure... I remember reading something about it a looong time ago (or, I think I read something like that  hmm ).

If that's the case, then maybe it's the fact that there are human victims? I don't know the exact rules governing projects on the frontpage... But that might be it  hmm


"...Jargon - the practice of never calling a spade a spade, when you might instead call it a manual earth-restructing implement..." - Bill Bryson, Mother Tongue

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#5 2010-07-04 11:51:08

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Wolfie1996 wrote:

I think the Scratch Team can tag a project in a way that means "It's not appropriate for everyone, but most people should be able to view it with no adverse effect". Don't quote me on that, 'cuz I'm not sure... I remember reading something about it a looong time ago (or, I think I read something like that  hmm ).

If that's the case, then maybe it's the fact that there are human victims? I don't know the exact rules governing projects on the frontpage... But that might be it  hmm

In my opinion furries are more inappropriate than blocks of pixels. If they have blocked it Then it's surely out of some grudge, as a lot of other violent projects with human victims make the front page all the time.

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#6 2010-07-04 11:56:33

Jimmy-Jermaine
New Scratcher
Registered: 2010-06-25
Posts: 100+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

The Featured Projects are the only ones that aren't supposed to have violence in them. The system can't differenciate between projects so it puts up whatever is viewed or loved a lot, so if it's not appearing, it might've been manually removed. But it's not certain that it's not a glitch yet.

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#7 2010-07-04 12:21:31

mathematics
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-03-01
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Was it on the homepage before? If yes, which column was it in?

EDIT: Now I have checked it. It's true that it's kind of unsuitable to all people.

Last edited by mathematics (2010-07-04 12:39:18)

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#8 2010-07-04 12:57:48

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

mathematics wrote:

Was it on the homepage before? If yes, which column was it in?

EDIT: Now I have checked it. It's true that it's kind of unsuitable to all people.

If you didn't notice, look at some other projects and see violence that is worse.

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#9 2010-07-04 16:37:25

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Yo Ansa

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#10 2010-07-04 23:33:51

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Wow, there is a lot of confusion and rumor about how things work on the site - let me clarify a few things. You can also read this thread for more discussion about these classifications:

http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic.php?id=14210

When the Scratch Team reviews a project based on the Terms of Use, we can decide to do one of three things. The first is mark it "For Everyone" - meaning the project is appropriate for all ages. We can also mark it "Not for Everyone," meaning the project is a bit too edgy for the front page.  The third classification is "Censored," and that removes the project entirely.

"Not for Everyone" is a classification we came up with as an alternative to censoring projects that have low levels of violence, which is pretty popular in a lot of games.  We don't like censoring, especially when someone has invested a lot of time and energy in a project.

Your project "Summer" was viewed as a bit too rough for the front page, but not so violent that it should be removed. So it was marked "Not for Everyone." Keep in mind that that Scratch website is viewed by kids of all ages - some as young as 5 years old. While "Summer" is fine for teenagers and adults, it could be a bit scary for younger kids. Hence the "Not for Everyone" rating.


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#11 2010-07-05 05:19:15

Jimmy-Jermaine
New Scratcher
Registered: 2010-06-25
Posts: 100+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

That clears some stuff up.. but I was actually posting things I'd read on the site before by other people, so yeah, there's a lot of confusion about this.

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#12 2010-07-05 08:53:28

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Lightnin wrote:

Wow, there is a lot of confusion and rumor about how things work on the site - let me clarify a few things. You can also read this thread for more discussion about these classifications:

http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic.php?id=14210

When the Scratch Team reviews a project based on the Terms of Use, we can decide to do one of three things. The first is mark it "For Everyone" - meaning the project is appropriate for all ages. We can also mark it "Not for Everyone," meaning the project is a bit too edgy for the front page.  The third classification is "Censored," and that removes the project entirely.

"Not for Everyone" is a classification we came up with as an alternative to censoring projects that have low levels of violence, which is pretty popular in a lot of games.  We don't like censoring, especially when someone has invested a lot of time and energy in a project.

Your project "Summer" was viewed as a bit too rough for the front page, but not so violent that it should be removed. So it was marked "Not for Everyone." Keep in mind that that Scratch website is viewed by kids of all ages - some as young as 5 years old. While "Summer" is fine for teenagers and adults, it could be a bit scary for younger kids. Hence the "Not for Everyone" rating.

Nobody that has seen it so far has considered it "scary". You seriously underestimate modern children; Why would someone as young as five be on here anyway?

I'll be watching another project with much more violence rise to the front page to see if it actually makes it instead of you guys removing any chance summer had.

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#13 2010-07-05 10:11:07

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

RHY3756547 wrote:

Nobody that has seen it so far has considered it "scary". You seriously underestimate modern children; Why would someone as young as five be on here anyway?

To learn how to program, and view and share cool projects.

This is just the way it is on an all ages site viewed by children and parents from around the world. Many people have different standards when it comes to content, and in order to be inclusive we feel the best compromise is to make sure that projects, comments, and posts are appropriate for all ages.


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#14 2010-07-05 10:23:42

calebxy
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-12-31
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

I completely agree with Lightnin.  big_smile


I'm making my own Doctor Who series!  big_smile  See the first episode here.
And please join Story Zone!  big_smile

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#15 2010-07-05 10:53:29

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Lightnin wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

Nobody that has seen it so far has considered it "scary". You seriously underestimate modern children; Why would someone as young as five be on here anyway?

To learn how to program, and view and share cool projects.

This is just the way it is on an all ages site viewed by children and parents from around the world. Many people have different standards when it comes to content, and in order to be inclusive we feel the best compromise is to make sure that projects, comments, and posts are appropriate for all ages.

Well duh, but how many 5 year olds do you know that go on scratch? Children below 8 or so don't give about programming and if they do, then they're mature enough to not cry themselves to sleep over a project which contains mild violence. I'm surprised you guys blocked it ASAP.

And calebxy, agreeing to someone without really understanding what they are saying doesn't get you extra brownie points with the higher order.

Last edited by RHY3756547 (2010-07-05 10:53:54)

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#16 2010-07-05 11:03:50

calebxy
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-12-31
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

I do understand what he said. I couldn't really say I agree if I don't understand, could I?  tongue


I'm making my own Doctor Who series!  big_smile  See the first episode here.
And please join Story Zone!  big_smile

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#17 2010-07-05 12:43:40

Lightnin
Scratch Team
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

RHY3756547 wrote:

Lightnin wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

Nobody that has seen it so far has considered it "scary". You seriously underestimate modern children; Why would someone as young as five be on here anyway?

To learn how to program, and view and share cool projects.

This is just the way it is on an all ages site viewed by children and parents from around the world. Many people have different standards when it comes to content, and in order to be inclusive we feel the best compromise is to make sure that projects, comments, and posts are appropriate for all ages.

Well duh, but how many 5 year olds do you know that go on scratch? Children below 8 or so don't give about programming and if they do, then they're mature enough to not cry themselves to sleep over a project which contains mild violence. I'm surprised you guys blocked it ASAP.

We are constantly reviewing projects that never or have yet to reach the front page. I'm sorry you feel like it's unfair, but it's not personal.

re: younger kids on Scratch.
There are enough.  smile  Look at the Scratch Stats.  And aside from that, it's our stated goal to make Scratch available to younger children, as well as teenagers and adults. I understand that you feel that most kids of age 8 and up are not sensitive to low levels of violence, but we disagree. I'm afraid our position on this is unlikely to change.


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#18 2010-07-05 12:52:49

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

Lightnin wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

Lightnin wrote:


To learn how to program, and view and share cool projects.

This is just the way it is on an all ages site viewed by children and parents from around the world. Many people have different standards when it comes to content, and in order to be inclusive we feel the best compromise is to make sure that projects, comments, and posts are appropriate for all ages.

Well duh, but how many 5 year olds do you know that go on scratch? Children below 8 or so don't give about programming and if they do, then they're mature enough to not cry themselves to sleep over a project which contains mild violence. I'm surprised you guys blocked it ASAP.

We are constantly reviewing projects that never or have yet to reach the front page. I'm sorry you feel like it's unfair, but it's not personal.

re: younger kids on Scratch.
There are enough.  smile  Look at the Scratch Stats.  And aside from that, it's our stated goal to make Scratch available to younger children, as well as teenagers and adults. I understand that you feel that most kids of age 8 and up are not sensitive to low levels of violence, but we disagree. I'm afraid our position on this is unlikely to change.

It seems very much so that it is personal. I get notifications like every two days about how serious my jokes are.

This graph here:
http://stats.scratch.mit.edu/community/usersbyage.html
Shows that there are less than 5000 users below 8, and considering children are over and done with things real fast most of those accounts are surely inactive. The remaining active few, mature enough to stay on see people BLEEDING TO DEATH on TV and some maybe on games for consoles. I do not see how a sun shooting laser beams is worse than that.

I showed a young child this very project and he just laughed. The results can't be worse for anyone else. It isn't realistic graphic violence Gears of War style. >.>

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#19 2010-07-05 14:36:03

andresmh
Scratch Team at MIT
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

I personally liked the project a lot, I can tell you work really hard on it. It is is also fun.

I completely disagree that it's something personal.

If you receive notifications often I am pretty sure they are either automatically generated or based on the specific comment or project that was reviwed by one of the people monitoring the site. It is not a reflection of you as a person. That said, if we find that a person is generating too much work for us, we decide to block accounts. It is all a matter of how much time is spent dealing with a particular account.

Now in terms of what is appropriate, I don't think the discussion should be about age it should be just about content. Age appropriateness depends a lot on culture and geography: for example, it is my understanding that in Europe people are more sensitive towards violence than they are about sexuality, in the US it seems to be the opposite.

I think the Scratch Team has decided that projects involving some kind of violence towards human beings is not something that should be displayed on the front page. That decision is a decision made based on the kind of values we want to emphasize on the website. We do understand that in the US, the media is OK showing violence against people to people of all ages, but our standards are independent from the standards of the US media.


Andres Monroy-Hernandez | Scratch Team at the MIT Media Lab
on identi.ca and  twitter

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#20 2010-07-05 14:53:30

Jimmy-Jermaine
New Scratcher
Registered: 2010-06-25
Posts: 100+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

So if in the future, I see any violent project on the front page besides the New Projects section, I could report it as being 'Violent and on the Front page'?

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#21 2010-07-05 15:09:24

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

andresmh wrote:

I personally liked the project a lot, I can tell you work really hard on it. It is is also fun.

I completely disagree that it's something personal.

If you receive notifications often I am pretty sure they are either automatically generated or based on the specific comment or project that was reviwed by one of the people monitoring the site. It is not a reflection of you as a person. That said, if we find that a person is generating too much work for us, we decide to block accounts. It is all a matter of how much time is spent dealing with a particular account.

Now in terms of what is appropriate, I don't think the discussion should be about age it should be just about content. Age appropriateness depends a lot on culture and geography: for example, it is my understanding that in Europe people are more sensitive towards violence than they are about sexuality, in the US it seems to be the opposite.

I think the Scratch Team has decided that projects involving some kind of violence towards human beings is not something that should be displayed on the front page. That decision is a decision made based on the kind of values we want to emphasize on the website. We do understand that in the US, the media is OK showing violence against people to people of all ages, but our standards are independent from the standards of the US media.

Actually, here in the UK it's pretty much the same, but nobody really cares about either.

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#22 2010-07-05 17:29:02

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

What I hate is that something I've works hard on for days has been basically ripped from advertisement so not as many people see my project.

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#23 2010-07-05 17:39:49

icecreamandcake
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-05-10
Posts: 500+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

RHY3756547, not everything gets to be your way, as my dad says. It's up to the Scratch Team to consider it appropriete or innapropriete. You don't need to make a big deal about it. I know you worked hard on it, but not everything is anybody's way (One of my dad's quotes) Seriously, sometimes you have to cool it and worry about other stuff. Okay, I am saying to many of my parent's quotes!


Lucario and Riolu ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  smile
http://i34.tinypic.com/14vjp0l.png Baa.

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#24 2010-07-05 17:55:48

RHY3756547
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1000+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

icecreamandcake wrote:

RHY3756547, not everything gets to be your way, as my dad says. It's up to the Scratch Team to consider it appropriete or innapropriete. You don't need to make a big deal about it. I know you worked hard on it, but not everything is anybody's way (One of my dad's quotes) Seriously, sometimes you have to cool it and worry about other stuff. Okay, I am saying to many of my parent's quotes!

No, you're obviously not getting the point here. In fact, you're completely missing it.

The way this game is being treated is as if this:
http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/RHY3756547/Splash.png

Is as bad as this:
[removed]
(Yo kids imma let you finish but don't click)

Last edited by Wolfie1996 (2010-07-06 14:32:55)

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#25 2010-07-05 18:05:42

Jimmy-Jermaine
New Scratcher
Registered: 2010-06-25
Posts: 100+

Re: "Summer" barred from frontpage?

icecreamandcake wrote:

RHY3756547, not everything gets to be your way, as my dad says. It's up to the Scratch Team to consider it appropriete or innapropriete. You don't need to make a big deal about it. I know you worked hard on it, but not everything is anybody's way (One of my dad's quotes) Seriously, sometimes you have to cool it and worry about other stuff. Okay, I am saying to many of my parent's quotes!

I don't think you should be saying it's a quote unless you're getting the words right. What you're saying he said doesn't really make too much sense. "Not everything is anybody's way"? I think you might've meant something different, or forgot the real words and improvised.

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