Scratch

bharvey · 2010-08-26 00:01:22

Lucario621 wrote:
Do you have any tips for doing good enough in classes like Spanish/French, Language Arts/English, or Social Studies so I don't have to put much effort in it so I can focus more on Math? And do u liek mah signature?

The sig is very cute. smile

I don't know any way to do well in something without effort, sorry. But the different cases are different. Foreign language is a lot of memorization, of vocabulary and grammar rules. The only less painful way I know isn't exactly a shortcut: it's to spend a year or two living in a country where that language is spoken, and surround yourself with people who don't speak English. Failing that, you just have to put in the time.

By the way, I don't know if it's still like this, but when I was a kid, the general expectation was that the smart kids took French and the dumb kids took Spanish, because the latter was supposed to be easier. So I took French. Although I'm glad I speak French (especially this past summer!), I really, really wish I spoke Spanish, which is much more useful if you happen to live in the US, especially California.

English should be fun! You get to read good literature. Try not to get bogged down in remembering details for the quiz (if that's how your teacher works), but really read the books. I enjoyed almost everything we read in English classes. And being able to express yourself coherently in writing is a super important skill, even if you're an engineer. So, the effort is intrinsically worthwhile in English class, never mind the grade.

As for social studies, it's probably worthless, but it's also probably really easy, so it shouldn't be a big hurdle. smile

Jens · 2010-08-26 03:51:53

bharvey wrote:
As for social studies, it's probably worthless, but it's also probably really easy

Hey, I heard that! What good is math if society sucks?

Don't just make decisions on what to learn depending on the expected profit in terms of grades and employability, instead broaden your horizon and become great persons. Not knowing about the lambda calculus only gets you flamed by some nerds, not knowing about the Constitution makes you look dumb just about anywhere smile

rubiks_cube_guy238 · 2010-08-26 08:02:10

bharvey wrote:
As for social studies, it's probably worthless, but it's also probably really easy, so it shouldn't be a big hurdle.

I despise social studies.

As for math, I'm been into algebra since 3rd grade. I'm a total geek. smile

Last edited by rubiks_cube_guy238 (2010-08-26 08:03:56)

bharvey · 2010-08-26 10:33:23

Jens wrote:
What good is math if society sucks?

Oh, I agree with that completely! But I stand by saying that social studies class is useless.

If they really wanted to teach kids something relevant about the Constitution, they'd teach that we don't have one any more. They'd teach about how Obama has explicitly endorsed a continuation of torture as US policy, how the Patriot Act repealed the Bill of Rights, things like that. They'd teach about how many innocent children the US government kills around the world every day, directly and through intermediaries.

Instead they teach how great everything is and how you should just wave the flag and not criticize.

Jens · 2010-08-26 11:07:17

bharvey wrote:
If they really wanted to teach kids something relevant about the Constitution, they'd teach that we don't have one any more. (...)

Instead they teach how great everything is and how you should just wave the flag and not criticize.

See, that's exactly why social studies is the greatest subject in school, because it provokes you into disagreeing with your teacher, and that's where you really learn something for life (and about Civil Rights).

(try disagreeing with your teacher about math... not much of a personality build-up to be gained from that) smile

bharvey · 2010-08-26 11:14:28

Jens wrote:
See, that's exactly why social studies is the greatest subject in school, because it provokes you into disagreeing with your teacher

Maybe. Most likely what you learn is "disagree with the teacher, get an F." I've seen interesting and useful courses in school labelled "History," but ones called "Social Studies" are always (imho) bland and soporific. (But still not quite as bad as the ones labelled "Civics"!)

bbbeb · 2010-08-26 11:26:26

Meh, learning about stuff like foregin countries is cool.
But the Constitution?
Thats my time to sleep in class. big_smile

shadow_7283 · 2010-08-26 17:21:05

bharvey wrote:
shadow_7283 wrote:
but I live in Texas.
I know! Isn't Texas right below Colorado?

Eh... I live in central Texas, and it's at least six hours to get out of Texas. I'd say the drive to Colorado would be about 12 hours, definitely more with stops and such.

Unfortunately, my family doesn't have a day to spare. sad

bharvey · 2010-08-26 18:41:21

shadow_7283 wrote:
it's at least six hours to get out of Texas.

Oh. I guess I hadn't realized how tall Texas is. I've driven across Texas, but most states are pretty wide. smile
Too bad.

Lucario621 · 2010-08-26 19:33:36

bharvey wrote:
Jens wrote:
What good is math if society sucks?
Oh, I agree with that completely! But I stand by saying that social studies class is useless.

If they really wanted to teach kids something relevant about the Constitution, they'd teach that we don't have one any more. They'd teach about how Obama has explicitly endorsed a continuation of torture as US policy, how the Patriot Act repealed the Bill of Rights, things like that. They'd teach about how many innocent children the US government kills around the world every day, directly and through intermediaries.

Instead they teach how great everything is and how you should just wave the flag and not criticize.

Woah there, let's not get too off-topic! You're asking for a flame war, you know tongue Just think positive dood. :3

Last edited by Lucario621 (2010-08-26 19:40:21)

Lucario621 · 2010-08-26 19:35:30

Jens wrote:
(try disagreeing with your teacher about math... not much of a personality build-up to be gained from that)

At least correcting a teacher when they say 8*3 is 18 is fun tongue

shadow_7283 · 2010-08-26 19:38:29

bharvey wrote:
Jens wrote:
What good is math if society sucks?
Oh, I agree with that completely! But I stand by saying that social studies class is useless.

If they really wanted to teach kids something relevant about the Constitution, they'd teach that we don't have one any more. They'd teach about how Obama has explicitly endorsed a continuation of torture as US policy, how the Patriot Act repealed the Bill of Rights, things like that. They'd teach about how many innocent children the US government kills around the world every day, directly and through intermediaries.

Instead they teach how great everything is and how you should just wave the flag and not criticize.

Whoa. That's is hilariously ironic, considering Berkley is renowned for being a very liberal school. tongue

shadow_7283 · 2010-08-26 20:02:47

I replied on your talk page, bharvey...

Last edited by shadow_7283 (2010-08-26 20:03:02)

DistantVisit · 2010-08-26 20:17:26

It's interesting as for the interface to be complicated and yet simply used. In fact, it's genious. I've always thought scratch was a bit easy for me (I've started learning Java) and so, the customizability of this program is amazing. It's great to see that you can make new blocks from pre-existing old ones, but something that has recently stuck me is the question on whether BYOB is really a way to create "sophisticated" new blocks or is it a block cleanup program of some sort?

With a input based interface the program would be more cabable of diferent posibilites of programing, but it will lose it's astetic properties.

Great job, Brian Harvey and Jens Moing.

shadow_7283 · 2010-08-26 20:41:16

I'm glad you like BYOB. But is absolutely NOT just a block-cleanup program.

You may or may not have noticed, but Jens and Brian have incorporated the idea of first class procedures in BYOB3. Eventually, they want (and we want too!) EVERYTHING to be first class. And like you said, they managed to do it in a way that hardly cluttered the brilliant Scratch interface at all. I can't wait for BYOB 3.1.

By the way, when do you start making it? I'm ready to start debugging again! big_smile

fullmoon · 2010-08-26 21:56:52

bharvey wrote:
Instead they teach how great everything is and how you should just wave the flag and not criticize.

I didn't quote your entire post, but it was definitely thought-provoking and grounded. But from my experience, I don't think high school teachers "teach" blind patriotism. My social studies teachers have alway encouraged us to think for ourselves, even if they probably sugarcoat their information some. One teacher of mine has a great quote on his wall:

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

To believe everything and to believe nothing are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the need for thought.

It could be that I just really like social studies class (but not geography...ugh), but I don't want to dismiss it as a propaganda outlet.

DistantVisit · 2010-08-26 22:05:16

shadow_7283 wrote:
I'm glad you like BYOB. But is absolutely NOT just a block-cleanup program.

You may or may not have noticed, but Jens and Brian have incorporated the idea of first class procedures in BYOB3. Eventually, they want (and we want too!) EVERYTHING to be first class. And like you said, they managed to do it in a way that hardly cluttered the brilliant Scratch interface at all. I can't wait for BYOB 3.1.

By the way, when do you start making it? I'm ready to start debugging again!

I posted that before I noticed the "first class procedures". It's great. I was just stunned with all the development that BYOB has gone through. It's gone advanced enough to be suggested as a learning topic in my school. I might even be able to teach it like I taught simple HTML, and .PHP before.

Once again, Brian Harvey and Jens Moing. smile

bharvey · 2010-08-27 01:18:31

Lucario621 wrote:
Woah there, let's not get too off-topic!

I knew you were going to say that! tongue

bharvey · 2010-08-27 01:34:11

shadow_7283 wrote:
That's is hilariously ironic, considering Berkley is renowned for being a very liberal school.

No, not ironic at all. What it means that Berkeley is a liberal school is that people like me say things like this. smile Anyway, I'm not talking about university classes; I don't think any college teaches anything called "Social Studies."

bharvey · 2010-08-27 01:42:17

DistantVisit wrote:
whether BYOB is really a way to create "sophisticated" new blocks

Well, do you like this one?

bharvey · 2010-08-27 01:45:56

shadow_7283 wrote:
By the way, when do you start making it? I'm ready to start debugging again!

Gimme a break! We both just got home from Paris this week. And I have a lot of catching up to do on revising the tutorials. And classes started today at Berkeley so I'm suddenly super busy again. (550 students in my CS 61A class, up from about 350 last fall!)

But I'm glad you're excited about it! smile

bharvey · 2010-08-27 01:54:26

fullmoon wrote:
It could be that I just really like social studies class (but not geography...ugh), but I don't want to dismiss it as a propaganda outlet.

Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sure there are excellent teachers of social studies. Maybe I was unduly influenced by the "US Government" course they made me take to get a California teaching credential (even though it was a math credential -- every teacher had to take this) in which the textbook said (roughly; I don't have it in front of me) "It was a blemish on democracy in the early days of the US that slaves couldn't vote, but it was okay that women couldn't vote, because they were represented by their husbands."

Does your teacher talk about how George Bush carried out a coup d'etat and repealed the Constitution by pushing through the Patriot Act the day after 9/11?

Okay, sorry, Chris, I'll shut up now.

bharvey · 2010-08-27 01:57:35

shadow_7283 wrote:
I replied on your talk page, bharvey...

Oh, and I replied to your reply, a while ago! Don't you have your talk page in your watch list? I get an automatic email when you (or anybody) edit my talk page.

Lucario621 · 2010-08-27 17:07:57

bharvey wrote:
shadow_7283 wrote:
By the way, when do you start making it? I'm ready to start debugging again!
Gimme a break! We both just got home from Paris this week. And I have a lot of catching up to do on revising the tutorials. And classes started today at Berkeley so I'm suddenly super busy again. (550 students in my CS 61A class, up from about 350 last fall!)

But I'm glad you're excited about it!

Is it correct that you're using BYOB in your class? And do you have a link to like, videos of the lectures? tongue

Lucario621 · 2010-08-27 17:09:10

bharvey wrote:
fullmoon wrote:
It could be that I just really like social studies class (but not geography...ugh), but I don't want to dismiss it as a propaganda outlet.
Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sure there are excellent teachers of social studies. Maybe I was unduly influenced by the "US Government" course they made me take to get a California teaching credential (even though it was a math credential -- every teacher had to take this) in which the textbook said (roughly; I don't have it in front of me) "It was a blemish on democracy in the early days of the US that slaves couldn't vote, but it was okay that women couldn't vote, because they were represented by their husbands."

Does your teacher talk about how George Bush carried out a coup d'etat and repealed the Constitution by pushing through the Patriot Act the day after 9/11?

Okay, sorry, Chris, I'll shut up now.

tongue

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archived forums

#1551 2010-08-26 00:01:22

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Lucario621 wrote:

#1552 2010-08-26 03:51:53

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

#1553 2010-08-26 08:02:10

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

#1554 2010-08-26 10:33:23

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

#1555 2010-08-26 11:07:17

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

#1556 2010-08-26 11:14:28

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

#1557 2010-08-26 11:26:26

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#1558 2010-08-26 17:21:05

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1559 2010-08-26 18:41:21

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1560 2010-08-26 19:33:36

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Jens wrote:

#1561 2010-08-26 19:35:30

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

#1562 2010-08-26 19:38:29

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Jens wrote:

#1563 2010-08-26 20:02:47

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#1564 2010-08-26 20:17:26

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#1565 2010-08-26 20:41:16

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

#1566 2010-08-26 21:56:52

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

#1567 2010-08-26 22:05:16

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1568 2010-08-27 01:18:31

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Lucario621 wrote:

#1569 2010-08-27 01:34:11

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1570 2010-08-27 01:42:17

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

DistantVisit wrote:

#1571 2010-08-27 01:45:56

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1572 2010-08-27 01:54:26

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

fullmoon wrote:

#1573 2010-08-27 01:57:35

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1574 2010-08-27 17:07:57

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

#1575 2010-08-27 17:09:10

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

fullmoon wrote:

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