Scratch

The-Whiz wrote:

BYOB is great so far, except for one thing. I've discovered a way to actually network an infinite number of BYOBs together, to have them interact in any number of different ways. The only problem with this is... The ([network] sensor value) block DOES NOT SUPPORT LISTS AS VARIABLES. This is essential to my project.
Thanks!

Hi, The-Whiz,

my jaw drops to the floor in amazement at you guys! You just grasp what BYOB 3 and first class lists/blocks are about sooo quickly!!! I never believed it, but Brian kept insisting you would, and you do. You rock!

Of course variables on the mesh should be able to hold anything that's first class, like they do within a project. That's the whole concept of first-class-ness. You're so quick to understand these big and powerful ideas, it's incredible! And yes, we want to do make sensor variables do just that! Hang on and bear with us, there will be more of this....

Jens wrote:

The-Whiz wrote:

BYOB is great so far, except for one thing. I've discovered a way to actually network an infinite number of BYOBs together, to have them interact in any number of different ways. The only problem with this is... The ([network] sensor value) block DOES NOT SUPPORT LISTS AS VARIABLES. This is essential to my project.
Thanks!

Hi, The-Whiz,

my jaw drops to the floor in amazement at you guys! You just grasp what BYOB 3 and first class lists/blocks are about sooo quickly!!! I never believed it, but Brian kept insisting you would, and you do. You rock!

Of course variables on the mesh should be able to hold anything that's first class, like they do within a project. That's the whole concept of first-class-ness. You're so quick to understand these big and powerful ideas, it's incredible! And yes, we want to do make sensor variables do just that! Hang on and bear with us, there will be more of this....

I understand it fairly well! But there are a few errors I get every once in a while because I coded something wrong, and yet I like it SOOOOOO MUCH!!!! It is strange that instead of putting a list NAME in a block you insert the whole list! I like it a lot and I think just about everyone will be able to understand it with a little practice... 

EDIT: w00t! I made a (item (1) < > of []) block!

Last edited by MathWizz (2010-04-26 11:13:21)

I found a glitch! The c-shape command input arg set to multiple inputs doesn't display right.

MathWizz wrote:

I found a glitch! The c-shape command input arg set to multiple inputs doesn't display right.

Ha! I was waiting for his    this part of the code is still under construction. The functionality is there, but I've yet got to fix the graphics.

It's great that you're trying every possible combination of types and arity! I'm interested in this: What would you use a multiple c-shape command input for (in a command block, or in a reporter, maybe even in a predicate)?

MathWizz wrote:

Jens wrote:

MathWizz wrote:

I found a glitch! The c-shape command input arg set to multiple inputs doesn't display right.

Ha! I was waiting for his    this part of the code is still under construction. The functionality is there, but I've yet got to fix the graphics.

It's great that you're trying every possible combination of types and arity! I'm interested in this: What would you use a multiple c-shape command input for (in a command block, or in a reporter, maybe even in a predicate)?

I was making a switch block with multiple cases!

As in a switch like a dial?

How can I save my blocks for the next time I use BYOB (without saving the project)?

Sorry if this seems stupid.

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

BUT WAIT, DON'T TELL ME HOW TO DO IT!

Oh dear, am I telling people how to do things too much? (It can't be Jens; I notice he never actually tells how to do anything in his replies.)  I think I'm nervous that people will get frustrated early and give up on BYOB.  But that doesn't seem to be happening.

No not at all. You are only giving help to people who ask for it. It was an unnecesary remark I guess. I just wanted to figure it out for myself. That's all. 

On another note, I think the Scratch Team is being a little to cautious about including BYOB in normal Scratch. Sure it is advanced, but the same old features are still there. There isn't anything preventing anyone from doing anything they've done before. Perhaps there could be an option like the "show/hide motor blocks" in Scratch 1.4! It could be something like "show/hide BYOB functions". That way a new Scratch user doesn't dive into the first class procedures until they are ready.

Last edited by shadow_7283 (2010-04-26 18:08:40)

I just noticed that the feature that keep the say and thought blocks from disappearing off the screen is missing. I know it isn't a huge deal, but is a little irritating. But I still love BYOB. In fact, my "BYOB Projects" folder is the first one listed in my "My Documents" page. It is a place of honor. You should be proud. 

Do you think Java will handle BYOB very well? I'm starting to think of ideas where BYOB could be used pratically on the internet. *Sigh*, if only Scratch converted to flash...

soupoftomato wrote:

I can't get the blocks into the variable.

And I still want to know how to save my blocks.

My questions remain.

Shadow_7283, do you know?

soupoftomato wrote:

How can I save my blocks for the next time I use BYOB (without saving the project)?

Sorry it took me some time to respond; I had to spend an hour or two doing what I'm actually paid for. :-)

If you export a sprite that has those blocks (as "for all sprites"), then you can drag the sprite file into another project, which will carry the blocks with it, and then delete the sprite and you'll be left with just the blocks.

bharvey wrote:

soupoftomato wrote:

How can I save my blocks for the next time I use BYOB (without saving the project)?

Sorry it took me some time to respond; I had to spend an hour or two doing what I'm actually paid for. :-)

If you export a sprite that has those blocks (as "for all sprites"), then you can drag the sprite file into another project, which will carry the blocks with it, and then delete the sprite and you'll be left with just the blocks.

But that takes time. 

bharvey wrote:

shadow_7283 wrote:

Every time I try to open BYOB it asks for the image file. It isn't a huge deal, but I do have to navigate for the file each time. Is there anyway to permanantly associate the image file with BYOB?

Mac or PC?

PC. Like I said before with the stereotype, my generation is just too impatient! 
I know my ideas may have been lost with all the new posts on this topic, but what do you think about having an option that allows you to hide or show BYOB functions?

Last edited by shadow_7283 (2010-04-26 19:17:45)

shadow_7283 wrote:

I think the Scratch Team is being a little to cautious about including BYOB in normal Scratch. Sure it is advanced, but the same old features are still there. There isn't anything preventing anyone from doing anything they've done before. Perhaps there could be an option like the "show/hide motor blocks" in Scratch 1.4! It could be something like "show/hide BYOB functions". That way a new Scratch user doesn't dive into the first class procedures until they are ready.

Well, I agree, of course, but to be fair let me try to represent their concerns.  It's not so much the blocks we added that worries them.  They think, rightly I'm sure, that once these capabilities are available, people will start uploading projects that use their own custom blocks, and then other people will find those projects incomprehensible because they don't understand the custom blocks. This is not an absurd fear.  My tools.sb file is, what, maybe 30 added blocks that are going to turn up in all /my/ projects.      So, I can see why this particular feature (not even the first-class stuff, just being able to make blocks) is scarier than other extensions might be.

But the other side of it is that I find any reasonably interesting Scratch project unreadable already!  People write these huge long scripts that go on forever, and the trouble with visual programming is that the "idea density" on the screen is smaller than in pure text languages.  Easier to write, but in some ways harder to read.  And custom blocks should /help/ with that, because a lot of the code in those Scratch scripts is repetitive.