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#3426 2011-07-13 18:43:16

sparks
Community Moderator
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Uhhh... Brian, I emailed you today and got a pretty worrying auto-reply message from you, is that old news because you posted here yesterday and are you alright?


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#3427 2011-07-13 21:24:29

Lucario621
Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-10-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

Oh, that's cool, Lucario, thanks for trying those pages on your android phone! I don't own one so I'm very glad someone checked. Can you actually drag and drop blocks? Does the context menu pop up when you touch and hold one finger and then tap with another one?

You're right that text entry on touchscreen devices does not yet work (neither on iOS), but we'll get around to it. We probably won't be using the built-in virtual keyboards but instead write our own Morphic ones, though.

Yes, I can drag and drop blocks. Place blocks inside if blocks, and stuff like that.

I don't seem to be open any kind of context menu though. That's the equivalent of right-clicking in Snap! on a computer, right? Sometimes those "a ScriptsMorph 1 [something]" pops up though -- I'm not sure how I do it though.

This time I've tried though, it has actually been crashing my phone (that specific web page). Perhaps its a bit javascript intensive or something.

But one thing: Make the scroll bars bigger! They're rather difficult to use.

A custom keyboard sounds cool  smile .

BTW I think some input placement stuff is a bit off. You can place "the script" block inside both of the "if" block's arguments.


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#3428 2011-07-14 00:16:05

bharvey
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Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

sparks wrote:

Uhhh... Brian, I emailed you today and got a pretty worrying auto-reply message from you, is that old news because you posted here yesterday and are you alright?

Well, I'm still in hospital but scheduled to leave for home tomorrow, barring relapses.  It's been a rough and scary three weeks, though.  Thanks.


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#3429 2011-07-14 04:07:21

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Lucario621 wrote:

Yes, I can drag and drop blocks. Place blocks inside if blocks, and stuff like that.

I don't seem to be open any kind of context menu though. That's the equivalent of right-clicking in Snap! on a computer, right? Sometimes those "a ScriptsMorph 1 [something]" pops up though -- I'm not sure how I do it though.

This time I've tried though, it has actually been crashing my phone (that specific web page). Perhaps its a bit javascript intensive or something.

But one thing: Make the scroll bars bigger! They're rather difficult to use.

A custom keyboard sounds cool  smile .

BTW I think some input placement stuff is a bit off. You can place "the script" block inside both of the "if" block's arguments.

Awesome, thanks Lucario! I'm really glad (and somewhat stunned) that the basic GUI functionality appears to be working on your Droid out of the box. The context menu should come up when you either double-tap (with two fingers at once) or consecutively tap-and-hold and then tap with a second finger (for single-touch devices).

Scroll bars - and in fact all of the GUI settings will be changed a lot before we're done, but you shouldn't really need scroll bars at all, because you can just drag the list pane (scrolling by dragging).

The fact that both boolean slots and command slots also accept any (round) reporter - including THE SCRIPT - is standard BYOB syntax (everything first-class, remember?  smile  ), but it's unusual for blocks that are system primitives in Scratch. At the moment I'm just creating all the ingredients which are needed to create any conceivable block present in Scratch 1.4 and possible in BYOB 3, fine-tuning will come later.

Thanks again for the quick testing!


Jens Mönig

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#3430 2011-07-14 06:58:28

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

BYOB4 status update

New: Drop-down menus for input slots.

   demo page
   hi-res demo


Jens Mönig

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#3431 2011-07-14 07:35:44

Brettl17
New Scratcher
Registered: 2011-06-23
Posts: 11

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hallo Jens!
Ich suche einen Weg um an die Objekte und Scripte einer sb Datei zu kommen (mit Java).
Ich wollte mir den online JavaPlayer anschauen wie er ein SB einliest aber leider ist dieser nicht open source  sad  . Könntest du dein "Save as XML" für chirp so erweitern dass es
die Möglichkeit gibt alle Scripte auf einmal in eine XML Datei zu schreiben, und alle
Bilder der Sprites in ein ZipArchiv zu exportieren? (z.B für jedes Sprite einen eigenen Ordner mit seinen Kostümen drin).
Danke!

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#3432 2011-07-14 07:44:13

Jens
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Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hallo Brettl17, auf der Scratch Source Code Seite findest einen Link zur Beschreibung des Dateiformats.


Jens Mönig

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#3433 2011-07-14 08:00:40

Brettl17
New Scratcher
Registered: 2011-06-23
Posts: 11

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Danke!!

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#3434 2011-07-14 08:21:51

Brettl17
New Scratcher
Registered: 2011-06-23
Posts: 11

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Ohh,
leider ist die Beschreibung stark gekürzt am Ende:
Man soll in der ObjReader Java Klasse (die ich nirgendwo finden kann) nachschauen um
um weiter zu kommen  sad .
Leider gibt's die ja nicht da man mir sagte als ich an den Scratch Support schrieb dass
sie den Sourcecode nicht freigeben werden, da er Code von anderen Firmen enthalte...

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#3435 2011-07-14 08:40:58

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

naja, dann siehst du dir das eben im Squeak Code an, ist ja dasselbe, ein serialisiertes Objekt halt... Viel Glück!


Jens Mönig

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#3436 2011-07-14 08:56:24

roijac
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

schau dir vielleicht das an. es könnte helfen

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#3437 2011-07-14 09:23:46

henley
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-06-21
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

BYOB4 status update

New: Drop-down menus for input slots.

   demo page
   hi-res demo

It’s really great! Amazing, but...


The scrollbar has some lag issues and while it lags, I can’t put any blocks, or click on anything.

The next step, in my opinion would be to have the ability to make and name variables, and lists.

I’m amazed with your work as always.  wink


"I've worked so hard for you and you give me nothing in return. Do you need help... Or do I?"

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#3438 2011-07-14 09:48:57

Jens
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-06-04
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

henley wrote:

The scrollbar has some lag issues and while it lags, I can’t put any blocks, or click on anything.

Yup, that'll get better with each new release. In the meantime you can just use Chrome or/and don't maximize the browser across your whole HD monitor.  smile

Oh, but you might be confusing what looks like "lag" to you with what actually is "scrolling velocity", i.e. when you drag the scroll pane and let go, it keeps scrolling, slowly decelerating, like on iOS. If it's that you can also just stop it...

Last edited by Jens (2011-07-14 09:49:47)


Jens Mönig

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#3439 2011-07-14 13:03:05

Lucario621
Community Moderator
Registered: 2007-10-03
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

Lucario621 wrote:

Yes, I can drag and drop blocks. Place blocks inside if blocks, and stuff like that.

I don't seem to be open any kind of context menu though. That's the equivalent of right-clicking in Snap! on a computer, right? Sometimes those "a ScriptsMorph 1 [something]" pops up though -- I'm not sure how I do it though.

This time I've tried though, it has actually been crashing my phone (that specific web page). Perhaps its a bit javascript intensive or something.

But one thing: Make the scroll bars bigger! They're rather difficult to use.

A custom keyboard sounds cool  smile .

BTW I think some input placement stuff is a bit off. You can place "the script" block inside both of the "if" block's arguments.

Awesome, thanks Lucario! I'm really glad (and somewhat stunned) that the basic GUI functionality appears to be working on your Droid out of the box. The context menu should come up when you either double-tap (with two fingers at once) or consecutively tap-and-hold and then tap with a second finger (for single-touch devices).

Scroll bars - and in fact all of the GUI settings will be changed a lot before we're done, but you shouldn't really need scroll bars at all, because you can just drag the list pane (scrolling by dragging).

Yeah, right now my browser is trying to crash eash time I try to open the page  hmm . I'm considering downloading another browser for my phone.

Jens wrote:

The fact that both boolean slots and command slots also accept any (round) reporter - including THE SCRIPT - is standard BYOB syntax (everything first-class, remember?  smile  ), but it's unusual for blocks that are system primitives in Scratch. At the moment I'm just creating all the ingredients which are needed to create any conceivable block present in Scratch 1.4 and possible in BYOB 3, fine-tuning will come later.

Thanks again for the quick testing!

Well of course I know that, but even that doesn't work for me in BYOB 3.1...


http://i.imgur.com/WBkM2QQ.png

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#3440 2011-07-14 13:04:57

scimonster
Community Moderator
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Jens wrote:

henley wrote:

The scrollbar has some lag issues and while it lags, I can’t put any blocks, or click on anything.

Yup, that'll get better with each new release. In the meantime you can just use Chrome or/and don't maximize the browser across your whole HD monitor.  smile

Oh, but you might be confusing what looks like "lag" to you with what actually is "scrolling velocity", i.e. when you drag the scroll pane and let go, it keeps scrolling, slowly decelerating, like on iOS. If it's that you can also just stop it...

The dragging velocity is cool, but it does lag: jump instead of moving smoothly.

The dropdowns work nicely!

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#3441 2011-07-15 10:28:57

xly
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-04-17
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

@ bharvey, Jens, byobers

My Tutorial has been updated as to allow downloading of all examples.
Far from being satisfying, but anyway I hope it can be useful "as it is".

Xavier

ps - best wishes Brian for your 'health, and Jens for your on-going Byob4 achievements.

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#3442 2011-07-15 10:30:09

xly
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-04-17
Posts: 100+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

I forgot the link !
http://www.xleroy.net/ByobTuto/thumbnails.html

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#3443 2011-07-15 17:51:20

MathWizz
Scratcher
Registered: 2009-08-31
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Nice progress on Snap! I'm running on my iPad but there is a lot of lag. I have a feeling that the final product will have more lag than BYOB 3 if it is not optimized much.  sad


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#3444 2011-07-16 10:59:22

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

MathWizz wrote:

I have a feeling that the final product will have more lag than BYOB 3 if it is not optimized much.

I guess everyone's projects are different, but my BYOB3 projects are dominated by computation time, not by display time.  So for me, if we manage a blindingly fast evaluator (hard to see how we could fail at that by Scratch evaluator standards), that would be a good tradeoff for slower display.

But there's no reason for the display to be slow in the final product either.  Jens just wrote a first pass at JS Morphic, starting from nothing, in no time!  There will be plenty of opportunity to tune it up.

Given our looming deadline, it might be that Snap 4.0 does have slower display than BYOB 3.  But I'm confident that Snap 4.1 will be fine.


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#3445 2011-07-16 11:03:34

shadow_7283
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-11-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

When is the deadline?

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#3446 2011-07-16 13:28:37

Hardmath123
Scratcher
Registered: 2010-02-19
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hi Jens and bharvey,
I had a couple of ideas for SNAP:
1. Making hat blocks. Maybe you could have a [Trigger script] terminator block for them.

[When <condition> is true]
forever
if <condition>
  [trigger script]

2. Executing external text-based code. You could have a [Execute code from list {}]. In JS, all you need is eval()...

3. Custom blocks category, where the 'other' grey blocks go.


Hardmaths-MacBook-Pro:~ Hardmath$ sudo make $(whoami) a sandwich

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#3447 2011-07-17 17:12:22

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

When is the deadline?

Thurs 25 Aug is rhe first day of classes at Berkeley.  That's the deadline for full working code.  We need an alpha release with a firm idea of the user interface from which we can redo the illustrations in the curriculum units a week or (preferably) two before that.


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#3448 2011-07-17 17:18:44

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

Hardmath123 wrote:

1. Making hat blocks.

Definitely.  WHEN <hexagon slot>.

Hardmath123 wrote:

2. Executing external text-based code.

Definitely, but not in 4.0, because we want to be sure to design this in a way that fits with our other goal of allowing users to manipulate a JS translation of their Snap scripts.  This is on the medium-term development list.

Hardmath123 wrote:

3. Custom blocks category, where the 'other' grey blocks go.

You mean a ninth tab in the palette menu?  Maybe.  The user interface is, imho, the last thing we worry about -- at some point we decide whether to try to make it look like Scratch 2.0 (it would be very cool if we had Scratch 2.0 up before they did!  tongue ), like 1.4, or somethine else.


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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#3449 2011-07-17 20:44:28

shadow_7283
Scratcher
Registered: 2007-11-07
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

bharvey wrote:

Thurs 25 Aug is rhe first day of classes at Berkeley.

I'm so excited!!!  big_smile  When do we get to start alpha-testing?

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#3450 2011-07-17 22:47:15

bharvey
Scratcher
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1000+

Re: BYOB 3 - Discussion Thread

shadow_7283 wrote:

bharvey wrote:

Thurs 25 Aug is rhe first day of classes at Berkeley.

I'm so excited!!!  big_smile  When do we get to start alpha-testing?

Yeah, good question.  So far the stuff you've seen from Jens is all there is.  I'm going to try to get on top of the other pieces of the project when I go to work tomorrow.

Oh, P.S., I'm back home since Friday evening, and I'm not even in the hospital; they think I can survive on my own with just outpatient care.  No heavy lifting for two months, though.  I'm really happy both about my improved health (health tip: if you're in the hospital and they keep shooting you full of morphine, that would explain why you have no energy) and about being back home!  Thanks for all the good wishes.


http://cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/sig5.png

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