Scratch

demosthenes wrote:

As I posted on this thread:

SeptimusHeap wrote:

You know it's actually illegal to steal Panther blocks, or even post the code?

  Good day!

It's actually not . . . your "license" means nothing, especially considering you are all (it would seem) minors . . .
Why does my license mean nothing? Please explain why you agreed to the license and yet you now neglect that doing so has any affect on you whatsoever.

Originally I supported the Panther project, but with your continued selfish actions and ridiculous "restrictions" I'm losing my faith in the whole project. You seem under the impression that people using your code is a "bad" thing. That is completely untrue, as Gary Gygax would say, "the greatest form of flattery is imitation" (this quote was recreated from memory, I may be incorrect on some of the wording).
Ah, but that's if they give credit, instead of stealing it.

If you really want to talk about the "legalities" of the issue, note that Panther does not abide by the terms of use because it uses the Scratch™ logo when it appears on the Mac OS X dock.
We don't distribute the Squeak VM as a .app, so you are using the Scratch VM, and so that is technically NOT a violation of the ToS, since it is not our software.

As I quote from the Scratch license

Scratch License wrote:

5. The source code for any Derivative Work based on this software shall be made readily available to the public, ideally on a public web site, free of charge.

Sorry, I guess you didn't see the "Source" folder in the zip

and another illuminating quote:

Scratch License wrote:

to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, or distribute the Software or software derived from it ("Derivative Works") for non-commercial purposes, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so

bold is my own.
Um... the only restriction we give on reproduction is basically that they can do whatever they want as long as they follow the (paraphrased) Scratch license on that, and that they give credit to us. Is that such a bad thing?

Last edited by nXIII (2010-05-17 18:10:51)

nXIII wrote:

Ah, but that's if they give credit, instead of stealing it.

I hate it when I have to sound like a grownup, but...

Demosthenes, nXIII, please both of you relax.

Out in the real world, the whole licensing mechanism revolves around money.  People who want to sell information on the Internet have the problem that it's really easy for people to pass it around, and so they fight to protect their ownership of ideas with a combination of technical means (DRM software) and legal means (restrictive licenses).

Here in the free-software world, it really doesn't matter what the law says about intellectual property.  Basically the law only understands money; you can sue someone when you show that his actions have improperly cost you money.  (And, yes, there is a grey area about people trying to turn free software into property, which is what the GNU GPL is about.  That's a way in which using the law as a weapon can matter to free software, but this isn't that situation.)

The Scratch license is a little wordier than many free software licenses mostly, I think, because they (rightly) want to protect their trademark -- they don't want to see an "X-rated Scratch" site or something like that, that might threaten the kid-friendly reputation they work so hard to maintain.  It's much more about "you can't call your product 'Scratch'" than about "credit us" even though that's there too.

Decent, ethical people don't take credit for someone else's work, license or no license.  No matter what you do, most people are going to behave decently but a few will not.

@Demosthenes: I came late to this conversation, but I gather that the Panther developers were burned early on by someone taking credit for their work, and it still rankles, and they're asking people not to do it again, and it's an understandable tactical error that they're expressing this in the rhetoric of the law.  Cut them some slack -- in their actions these guys are very communitarian and decent and open.

@nXIII: Almost all the time you behave humanely and openly and maturely, but when someone pushes this button of yours about taking your work without credit, you start sounding defensive and propertarian.  I understand that you're nursing a feeling of having been betrayed, but (as you can see from Demosthenes's reaction) you don't do yourself any favors by nursing it in public.  Also, it sounds as if you're having trouble taking in, or believing, all the praise and respect everyone has been giving you, even before yesterday.  The Panther group is amazing.  You personally are amazing. It doesn't matter if everyone on Earth starts using your work without crediting you!  Everyone who matters knows where the credit belongs.  (Not that people should use your work without credit.  But if they do, that reflects on them, not on you.)

P.S.  I'm optimistic about people; I think maybe even someone who has behaved badly in the past might grow to regret it and to start behaving well if encouraged.

Just got Panther!    But a lot of the new blocks don't work (the <[ ] received?> doesn't work!  ), and when I tried to show a new block's Stage Monitor, I got one of those Squeak error messages. >_< Does this happen to anyone else?

The <[] recieved?> block works perfectly for me.

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

The <[] recieved?> block works perfectly for me.

Yea, this more depends on people's definitions of "working."
What I am doing in the next version is implementing what I have now plus a modification of the Stage's step methods in order to collect a list of recently broadcasted messages and check against them as well.

I need help with the block editor. I figured out how to add numerical inputs into custom blocks, but I cant add those to the blocks inside the block.

This is what I mean:

(block name) move $s$ steps (I know this block already exists but I was just experimenting)

self forward: ($s$)

but it didn't work, what did I do wrong?

henley wrote:

I thought that you had to type in $number$ or $string$ instead of $s$ or $n$

It doesn't matter, you could type in anything and it will be a numerical input....I think...

Okay I get it but it still doesn't answer my question:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

I need help with the block editor. I figured out how to add numerical inputs into custom blocks, but I cant add those to the blocks inside the block.

This is what I mean:

Code:

(block name) move $s$ steps (I know this block already exists but I was just experimenting)

self forward: ($s$)

but it didn't work, what did I do wrong?

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

Okay I get it but it still doesn't answer my question:

ScratchReallyROCKS wrote:

I need help with the block editor. I figured out how to add numerical inputs into custom blocks, but I cant add those to the blocks inside the block.

This is what I mean:

Code:

(block name) move $s$ steps (I know this block already exists but I was just experimenting)

self forward: ($s$)

but it didn't work, what did I do wrong?

Um... so you would put
'move $Number$ steps' '-' [blueish]
'self forward: t1.'

Kingdaro wrote:

The "clone me" and "delete me" don't seem to be functional. The "delete me" might be, but the "clone me" has been tested by me countless times and is not working. Here's the script(s) I put it in:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7681/scripts.gif

Well, I guess I should be thankful for now it's not working, because I made a mistake. *facepalm*

Why does mine look like the normal Scratch? That form looks epic.

nXIII wrote:

Ok: CYOB stores its inputs in variables 't1', 't2', etc.
Common inputs:
$String$
$Number$
$Boolean$

Common inputs? Does that mean there are other ones?

Hmm.. I found the color picker one, $Color$... Should be useful...

nXIII wrote:

Kingdaro wrote:

The "clone me" and "delete me" don't seem to be functional. The "delete me" might be, but the "clone me" has been tested by me countless times and is not working. Here's the script(s) I put it in:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7681/scripts.gif

All clones are deleted when the green flag or the stop all button is pressed. Use the 'When Sprite1 created' event hat instead.

Then please explain to me why no clones are created on green flag click. (when I put "clone me" under "when green flag clicked") The clone should show, according to this script.