Scratch

RHY3756547 · 2010-02-17 15:14:07

Recently when I've been coding with scratch I've been experiencing a lot of lag - with just makes me plain stressed out. I really dislike lag - and it's been getting on my nerves for the past while.

Is scratch 2.0 planned to perform much faster than 1.4 (in project playing and creation)? I believe that with the flash engine some of the strain will be taken off for the graphics processing - but what about block processes?

Thanks,
RHY3756547

Ace-of-Spades · 2010-02-17 15:28:53

Are you making one giant script? The shorter your script is, the less lag.

RHY3756547 · 2010-02-17 15:30:12

More like 1000 giant scripts.

archmage · 2010-02-17 15:55:00

Lag isn't that stressful. Lag, is understandable, you can test it to see what is causing it. What is REALLY stressful is having a bug or script error that prevents your project from running properly the day before you need it finished. This isn't really an issue for scratch but with a lot of languages that kind of problem can pop up.

I am going to guess that the flash version will be faster, but probably not something like 7 times faster. Flash overall isn't that powerful, but compared to scratch's current online player its a powerhouse.

Last edited by archmage (2010-02-17 15:57:21)

RHY3756547 · 2010-02-17 16:25:26

archmage wrote:
Lag isn't that stressful. Lag, is understandable, you can test it to see what is causing it. What is REALLY stressful is having a bug or script error that prevents your project from running properly the day before you need it finished. This isn't really an issue for scratch but with a lot of languages that kind of problem can pop up.

I am going to guess that the flash version will be faster, but probably not something like 7 times faster. Flash overall isn't that powerful, but compared to scratch's current online player its a powerhouse.

On scratch you don't really test for lag, because scratch is lag.

Since it is a big milestone (2.0) I hope that they make a really fast revision of the scratch engine so projects can become more complex.

Also - I have never encountered a bug like that. Everything usually works fine.

archmage · 2010-02-17 16:41:25

If everything has always worked fine that you probably never really got into java or similar languages. There are things that will confuse the hell out of novices.

You can test for lag in scratch by removing parts of the program to focus on certain parts that you think may be causing lag.

Last edited by archmage (2010-02-17 16:42:20)

RHY3756547 · 2010-02-17 18:26:50

archmage wrote:
If everything has always worked fine that you probably never really got into java or similar languages. There are things that will confuse the hell out of novices.

You can test for lag in scratch by removing parts of the program to focus on certain parts that you think may be causing lag.

Does the whole thing count?

The player does not generate any lag whatsoever. The scrolling does - so it's caused by scratch's slow graphics engine.

Lucario621 · 2010-02-17 20:19:23

Not that this is anything new, but take apart the scripts, and add onto the script which you need to add onto, and then attach it to the main script.

Lucario621 · 2010-02-17 20:20:26

RHY3756547 wrote:
...I really dislike lag...

Who doesn't? tongue

Magnie · 2010-02-17 20:28:37

Yeah, I have to wait 5 minutes to add one block to anything. xD I think they need to make Scratch run faster.

Note: This does not belong in Advanced Topics, this belongs in Troubleshooting or Suggestions.

urhungry · 2010-02-17 21:44:13

i have troubles with ingame lag, but not builder lag.

RHY3756547 · 2010-02-18 12:43:17

urhungry wrote:
i have troubles with ingame lag, but not builder lag.

I have troubles with everything lag. sad

Magnie · 2010-02-18 13:23:21

Me too. xD

carnack · 2010-02-19 23:26:03

It's always lag with you, isn't it? XD

adriangl · 2010-02-19 23:57:11

WOW...you only notice this now tongue 2.0 will definitely be a bit faster offline, but online, it will still use the stupid Java player sad

archmage · 2010-02-20 00:02:47

No, the entire scratch program will be online in v2, it will also be made entirely in flash. The question is will this change make the program several times faster as Rhy is hoping for.

billyedward · 2010-02-20 00:13:20

archmage wrote:
No, the entire scratch program will be online in v2, it will also be made entirely in flash. The question is will this change make the program several times faster as Rhy is hoping for.

Really? Do you mean the development environment too?
What sources lead you to say this?

archmage · 2010-02-20 00:18:03

Read though the scratch 2.0 thread in the announcements forum, one of the admins say it.

andresmh wrote:
what-the wrote:
Nice artical.Scratch online should be interesting. Will it be some big java application or something?
Our current plan is to make the editor and the player using Flash (like YouTube and ClubPenguin, among others). This is not final though.

adriangl · 2010-02-20 00:47:48

archmage wrote:
Read though the scratch 2.0 thread in the announcements forum, one of the admins say it.

andresmh wrote:
what-the wrote:
Nice artical.Scratch online should be interesting. Will it be some big java application or something?
Our current plan is to make the editor and the player using Flash (like YouTube and ClubPenguin, among others). This is not final though.

OMG....I hope this makes it better smile

OoOgAlOoOk · 2010-02-21 00:48:16

I'm having the same problems with lag. I find that the only way in a big program to do any significant scripting is to at least stop the simulation, but also to dissect the script and make several smaller ones. To play larger games (like my upcoming Scroller game), make sure to go to presentation mode. My real problem is that the one project I've uploaded so far is slower than molasses in January. When the sun's taking a vacation. And geothermal activity has utterly ceased. And even hell's frozen, thank you Saints.
How can I get decent run speed with my game?

fanofcena · 2010-02-21 01:00:29

First off LAG isnt a big issue when scratch provides simplicity while programming and as per lag is considered i think i once asked scratch team to add functionality of adding blocks to scratch IDE , I have seen your most projects and they lag as you make the script humangous by your unobjective programming u write code many times for the same thing (in GALE)try using shorter scripts (that u cant) so make the scripts in fragments and then join them together when compilation .
Second thing
I dunno who told you that Flash is faster then squeak 0.o i tried to program very basic things on squeak (failed manytimes but as i am learning) and same things on flash for experimental purposes.. And yeah how can i forget C++

now here are the results
All resolutions were VGA
Test || C++ || SQUEAK || FLASH (actually Actionscript)
FPS(gale 3d) 257 *(blazing) || 200(nice) || 140(kinda slow)
FPS(textured) 150( Awesom)|| 80(beaten)*|| 60 (again at backfoot)
**count/sec(idle) 1500(stunning)||900(stunner)|| 900 (this time it got it)
i may programm a basic game at three

*I had to copy some scratch code for this
** it counts the max time a do multiplication loop can run in 1 sec

Last edited by fanofcena (2010-02-21 01:03:00)

filo5 · 2010-02-21 04:28:35

archmage wrote:
Lag isn't that stressful. Lag, is understandable, you can test it to see what is causing it. What is REALLY stressful is having a bug or script error that prevents your project from running properly the day before you need it finished. This isn't really an issue for scratch but with a lot of languages that kind of problem can pop up.

I am going to guess that the flash version will be faster, but probably not something like 7 times faster. Flash overall isn't that powerful, but compared to scratch's current online player its a powerhouse.

Actually, it might be just because they're using plain Java and not JavaFX. But yes, Flash engine would be a whole lot cooler. Not mentioning that Flash is also very portable - even newer mobile phones have it (well, most of them). If they manage to re-create Scratch in Flash (and I'm talking the whole application here), the possibilities will be great:
- Vector graphic (3 times faster than bitmap graphic if used properly)
- Engine that is not a VM (thus this would be 2 times faster)
- Flash is optimized for graphics
- Source code written in ActionScript - a programming language that people can understand
- - Now it would be possible to write plug-ins, since you can make an API

Yeah... Cool...

scmb1 · 2010-02-21 19:23:15

Yes, lag can be annoying. I hope 2.0 is less laggy.

fanofcena · 2010-02-22 09:20:45

filo5 wrote:
archmage wrote:
Lag isn't that stressful. Lag, is understandable, you can test it to see what is causing it. What is REALLY stressful is having a bug or script error that prevents your project from running properly the day before you need it finished. This isn't really an issue for scratch but with a lot of languages that kind of problem can pop up.

I am going to guess that the flash version will be faster, but probably not something like 7 times faster. Flash overall isn't that powerful, but compared to scratch's current online player its a powerhouse.
Actually, it might be just because they're using plain Java and not JavaFX. But yes, Flash engine would be a whole lot cooler. Not mentioning that Flash is also very portable - even newer mobile phones have it (well, most of them). If they manage to re-create Scratch in Flash (and I'm talking the whole application here), the possibilities will be great:
- Vector graphic (3 times faster than bitmap graphic if used properly)
- Engine that is not a VM (thus this would be 2 times faster)
- Flash is optimized for graphics
- Source code written in ActionScript - a programming language that people can understand
- - Now it would be possible to write plug-ins, since you can make an API

Yeah... Cool...

Have u ever tried using squeak

rdococ · 2010-02-23 12:22:54

fanofcena wrote:
First off LAG isnt a big issue when scratch provides simplicity while programming and as per lag is considered i think i once asked scratch team to add functionality of adding blocks to scratch IDE , I have seen your most projects and they lag as you make the script humangous by your unobjective programming u write code many times for the same thing (in GALE)try using shorter scripts (that u cant) so make the scripts in fragments and then join them together when compilation .
Second thing
I dunno who told you that Flash is faster then squeak 0.o i tried to program very basic things on squeak (failed manytimes but as i am learning) and same things on flash for experimental purposes.. And yeah how can i forget C++

now here are the results
All resolutions were VGA
Test || C++ || SQUEAK || FLASH (actually Actionscript)
FPS(gale 3d) 257 *(blazing) || 200(nice) || 140(kinda slow)
FPS(textured) 150( Awesom)|| 80(beaten)*|| 60 (again at backfoot)
**count/sec(idle) 1500(stunning)||900(stunner)|| 900 (this time it got it)
i may programm a basic game at three

*I had to copy some scratch code for this
** it counts the max time a do multiplication loop can run in 1 sec

For me:

Flash: 38 (so slow)
Squeak: 20947 (best fastest)
Scratch: 940382032495 (better than best fastest)
Staroffice: 134 (stunning slow)

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2010-02-17 15:14:07

Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#2 2010-02-17 15:28:53

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#3 2010-02-17 15:30:12

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#4 2010-02-17 15:55:00

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#5 2010-02-17 16:25:26

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

archmage wrote:

#6 2010-02-17 16:41:25

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#7 2010-02-17 18:26:50

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

archmage wrote:

#8 2010-02-17 20:19:23

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#9 2010-02-17 20:20:26

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

RHY3756547 wrote:

#10 2010-02-17 20:28:37

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#11 2010-02-17 21:44:13

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#12 2010-02-18 12:43:17

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

urhungry wrote:

#13 2010-02-18 13:23:21

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#14 2010-02-19 23:26:03

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#15 2010-02-19 23:57:11

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#16 2010-02-20 00:02:47

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#17 2010-02-20 00:13:20

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

archmage wrote:

#18 2010-02-20 00:18:03

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

andresmh wrote:

what-the wrote:

#19 2010-02-20 00:47:48

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

archmage wrote:

andresmh wrote:

what-the wrote:

#20 2010-02-21 00:48:16

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#21 2010-02-21 01:00:29

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#22 2010-02-21 04:28:35

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

archmage wrote:

#23 2010-02-21 19:23:15

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

#24 2010-02-22 09:20:45

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

filo5 wrote:

archmage wrote:

#25 2010-02-23 12:22:54

Re: Lag in scratch makes me stressed while programming :(

fanofcena wrote:

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