Scratch

Jonathanpb · 2009-12-02 00:18:37

A lot of people say that '09ers are ruining Scratch. And they say the following:

'07ers: Quiet, advanced programmers that are full of intelligence.
'08ers: Not as quiet and not as advanced.
'09ers: Rowdy, dumb people with few advanced programmers.

It's sick. But fortunately, there's an explanation.

With all things, in the old and early days, things were quiet. After all, there weren't that many people. Therefore, the '07ers were quiet people, and as time progressed, they kept quiet, since they were used to the quietness.
The trend for projects in '07 were advanced, brilliant projects. Due to this, people made plenty of advanced quality projects. They got used to this and improved at it.

In came '08.
Around December '07, there was a large increase of people. Of course, Scratch couldn't keep quiet for that long. People started coming out into the open. '08ers were less quiet than the '07ers.
The trend changed. In '08, the good project was a brilliant game. Of course, games often aren't advanced. But since more people started to make games, they didn't learn as much, therefore, not being so advanced.

In came '09.
The population was increasing nicely. There were a lot of people.
In '09, the trend changed massively. The good project was widely varied, but mainly made up of three things: remix chains, animations, and art. Remix chains don't require much programming, animations are better but not that 'advanced', and art doesn't require any programming. Due to this, most of the '09ers (remember, the population was increasing a lot) made things like remix chains and art, instead of projects that required a lot of programming.

Let's sum it up.

'07 was quiet, and the trend was advanced projects. Therefore, the '07ers were quiet and made advanced projects. They were advanced programmers.
'08 was more open, and the trend was towards games. Therefore, the '08ers were more open and made games, which meant that they did have as many advanced programmers.
'09 was very open and rowdy, and the trend changed to projects that don't require advanced programming. Therefore, most '09ers weren't advanced programmers (because the trend changed, so most of them didn't make advanced stuff, therefore not getting advanced).

Don't forget that the more time people have, the better they can be at programming. Maybe some '09ers just haven't had the time yet. Don't just think they're horrible.

One more thing: Scratch changed a lot since the beginning of '09. Why are you blaming the '09ers? The '07ers and '08ers started it. If Scratch changed at the beginning of '09, why would '09ers be causing it? They came later. They just went with the trend.

Whatever year you are, we're all equal. Some of us just joined earlier or later.

Feel free to post things.

Interesting posts:

ScratchX wrote:
i agree with you...Just because new users come now and then and spam because they didn't know the rules don't mean that 09'ers are stupid! I bet the SAME thing happened for people who joined in 2007 and 2008. When you guys say 07'ers and 08'ers are wiser they are!...well DUH! They KNOW the rules and THEY HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE...it looks like you guys are saying "the moment 07'ers and 08'ers joined, they are SUPER SMART AND WISE..." So yeah...just wanted to make a point

jacool wrote:
I agree at the most parts, but when I started with Scratch in 2008, I was not a good programmer, I didn't make any advanced projects.
So why does the 09'ers have to be good when they've just started programming?

Last edited by Jonathanpb (2009-12-02 05:06:00)

ScratchX · 2009-12-02 01:02:00

I'm sorry 07'ers and 08'ers ill give it back to you but 09'ers made one of the best projects of ALL time!! ALL TIME!!
i agree with you...Just because new users come now and then and spam because they didn't know the rules don't mean that 09'ers are stupid! I bet the SAME thing happened for people who joined in 2007 and 2008. When you guys say 07'ers and 08'ers are wiser they are!...well DUH! They KNOW the rules and THEY HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE...it looks like you guys are saying "the moment 07'ers and 08'ers joined, they are SUPER SMART AND WISE..." So yeah...just wanted to make a point tongue

Scratch-X =3

jacool · 2009-12-02 01:53:46

I agree at the most parts, but when I started with Scratch in 2008, I was not a good programmer, I didn't make any advanced projects.
So why does the 09'ers have to be good when they've just started programming?

ihaveamac · 2009-12-02 01:58:43

Agreed with you.

Though I'm not that silent, I still am. tongue

urhungry · 2009-12-02 02:02:39

I joins in June so I never new scratch any other way. I do see alot of projects that make me go what the heck? But it's their choose to make what they want. Also ive never made a project which dosent have atleast some complicated programming for me at the time, and I'm an 09 er.

Chrischb · 2009-12-02 03:03:24

I agree with you too!

Let's now start the Scratch Revolution. This is when we all make friends with each other and stop getting angry!

Jonathanpb · 2009-12-02 03:05:59

It's good to see that there's no argument.

Added something mentioned by jacool. Maybe some '09ers aren't good programmers because they haven't had the time to learn more yet? Don't expect people to just be advanced programmers immediately.

juststickman · 2009-12-02 04:45:43

You typed "justed" instead of just?

Jonathanpb · 2009-12-02 05:06:22

juststickman wrote:
You typed "justed" instead of just?

Oops! Silly me. It's corrected now.

TheSaint · 2009-12-02 06:32:09

Once again you posted right after Chrischb.

I find it funny how we are still classifying people by year. I wish to classify them by alphabetical order. tongue

08jackt · 2009-12-02 08:27:58

OKAY.

people. seriously. its a registery date.

they weren't teasing black people, they weren't teasing asians.

they were teasing a registery date.

who honestly cares. lighten up people.

steppenwulf · 2009-12-02 09:44:53

Nicely put, Jonathan. Another thing is that, the majority of the Scratch community are under the age of 13. With more younger people, comes simpler projects, and most people don't think about that.

torterra · 2009-12-02 10:14:38

The 09ners have just started. When we start we want to make projects that are good, but don't require much programming. As we make more and more projects, we start to get the hang of the program and make more advanced projects.

Some of us, though, want to make advanced projects FIRST, so they can gain a large amount of attention. What do they do? They ask for help. "Oh what does this do?" or "Can I do this with this?" These are common questions and yes they are annoying, but people would rather ask someone experienced for help then try to figure stuff out on there own, right? So the more you help, the less they would ask questions and the more they would program. You should also encourage them to explore with different blocks. It could make something rather unique. wink

Last edited by torterra (2009-12-02 10:15:13)

RHY3756547 · 2009-12-02 11:13:45

A fuller community is a more unstable one. I've learned this from the many communities I've been a part of.

throughthefire · 2009-12-02 11:44:20

Well of course 07ers make more advanced projects! They have more experience!

Targethero · 2009-12-02 11:52:50

I also agree, Just because something happens in '09(for example the new trends you listed) doesn't mean the '09ers are the cause of all of it, and were the only ones who joined in with it. Allot of the people who started the trends like art, animation, and remix chains, joined in '08 and were making art, animations, and some remix chains ever since they started. Those users just got more popular as time went on, and with them also their projects got more popular and were on the front page often. So when new users joined in '09, a lot of them saw what was popular in Scratch at the time, and they wanted to be popular too so they started making art, animations, ext... But not only '09ers followed the new trends, a lot of '08ers did too.
Also not all '09ers aren't good at programming, there is a big amount of users who joined in '09 and are VERY good at programming games, engines, physics, ext, and although some aren't as good as others, they still started out the same way as most '07 and '08ers did, and are getting better and better at it, the same as '07ers and '08ers.

archmage · 2009-12-02 12:07:14

There is a simple explanation for this I think.
07, scratch is featured on tech new sites, lot of tech users
08, much less attention from tech sites, many younger users join
09, majority of users are younger and less experienced with coding, simple easy to understand projects are popular

jacool · 2009-12-02 12:08:34

archmage wrote:
There is a simple explanation for this I think.
07, scratch is featured on tech new sites, lot of tech users
08, much less attention from tech sites, many younger users join
09, majority of users are younger and less experienced with coding, simple easy to understand projects are popular

And nothing is wrong with that, The main intention of Scratch wasn't really to attract advanced programmers.

throughthefire · 2009-12-02 14:56:20

Also, you shouldn't stereotype all 09ers. I'm an 09er and I'm actually working on a pretty advanced project right now

RHY3756547 · 2009-12-02 15:41:48

I'm a very rowdy dumb programmer! XD

Lucario621 · 2009-12-02 15:57:21

RHY3756547 wrote:
I'm a very rowdy dumb programmer! XD

Tell me about it lol (jk)

I think the problem is that the scratch people advertised it to too many young kids, and not enough 16 year olds.

dav09 · 2009-12-02 16:04:22

i agree. you might say i joined in 09 but i looked at the projects on scratch in late 08 and saw it was a nice community so later i joined. But not all 07 and 08 are nice and not all 09ers are bad. I never make animations and the remixes are usually completely differant(dont have many remixes)! So i doo agree

Last edited by dav09 (2009-12-02 16:06:43)

TheSaint · 2009-12-02 16:05:05

Lucario621 wrote:
RHY3756547 wrote:
I'm a very rowdy dumb programmer! XD
Tell me about it (jk)

I think the problem is that the scratch people advertised it to too many young kids, and not enough 16 year olds.

Like me? tongue

Lol, 16 and still rowdy. Some things don't die with age. big_smile

Jonathanpb · 2009-12-02 23:22:47

TheSaint wrote:
Once again you posted right after Chrischb.

tongue

TheSaint wrote:
I find it funny how we are still classifying people by year. I wish to classify them by alphabetical order.

Yes, it's silly.

It'd be too easy to get high up with alphabetical order... we'd get usernames like "aaaaaa", "abc", and "aaaaaaattack".

08jackt wrote:
OKAY.

people. seriously. its a registery date.

they weren't teasing black people, they weren't teasing asians.

they were teasing a registery date.

who honestly cares. lighten up people.

It's still causing seperation and hate. It's practically the same.

Anyway, how would you like it if you were an '09er and people teased you?

steppenwulf wrote:
Nicely put, Jonathan. Another thing is that, the majority of the Scratch community are under the age of 13. With more younger people, comes simpler projects, and most people don't think about that.

Good point...

torterra wrote:
The 09ners have just started. When we start we want to make projects that are good, but don't require much programming. As we make more and more projects, we start to get the hang of the program and make more advanced projects.

Some of us, though, want to make advanced projects FIRST, so they can gain a large amount of attention. What do they do? They ask for help. "Oh what does this do?" or "Can I do this with this?" These are common questions and yes they are annoying, but people would rather ask someone experienced for help then try to figure stuff out on there own, right? So the more you help, the less they would ask questions and the more they would program. You should also encourage them to explore with different blocks. It could make something rather unique.

Exactly! They've just started, and we expect them to be perfect? It isn't right! And yes, some of them may try and make advanced projects from the start. And that's their choice, so we shouldn't be upset. We should help them! After all, wouldn't we want help if we were them?

RHY3756457 wrote:
A fuller community is a more unstable one. I've learned this from the many communities I've been a part of.

Yes! Let's put it this way... which is more stable, a community with 100000 people or 1000000?

throughthefire wrote:
Well of course 07ers make more advanced projects! They have more experience!

Exactly!

Targethero wrote:
I also agree, Just because something happens in '09(for example the new trends you listed) doesn't mean the '09ers are the cause of all of it, and were the only ones who joined in with it. Allot of the people who started the trends like art, animation, and remix chains, joined in '08 and were making art, animations, and some remix chains ever since they started. Those users just got more popular as time went on, and with them also their projects got more popular and were on the front page often. So when new users joined in '09, a lot of them saw what was popular in Scratch at the time, and they wanted to be popular too so they started making art, animations, ext... But not only '09ers followed the new trends, a lot of '08ers did too.
Also not all '09ers aren't good at programming, there is a big amount of users who joined in '09 and are VERY good at programming games, engines, physics, ext, and although some aren't as good as others, they still started out the same way as most '07 and '08ers did, and are getting better and better at it, the same as '07ers and '08ers.

Very well put. And true.

archmage wrote:
There is a simple explanation for this I think.
07, scratch is featured on tech new sites, lot of tech users
08, much less attention from tech sites, many younger users join
09, majority of users are younger and less experienced with coding, simple easy to understand projects are popular

That's sort of like what I said! But no, I'm not blaming you. Anyway, yes, you're right.

jacool wrote:
archmage wrote:
There is a simple explanation for this I think.
07, scratch is featured on tech new sites, lot of tech users
08, much less attention from tech sites, many younger users join
09, majority of users are younger and less experienced with coding, simple easy to understand projects are popular
And nothing is wrong with that, The main intention of Scratch wasn't really to attract advanced programmers.

Exactly, jacool.

throughthefire wrote:
Also, you shouldn't stereotype all 09ers. I'm an 09er and I'm actually working on a pretty advanced project right now

Yes! Not all '09ers are bad at programming! A lot of them are great!

RHY3756457 wrote:
I'm a very rowdy dumb programmer! XD

How false! You're great at programming, and your projects are amazing! smile Yes, I know you were joking. tongue

Lucario621 wrote:
I think the problem is that the scratch people advertised it to too many young kids, and not enough 16 year olds.

Lucario... there's nothing bad about having plenty of young kids with Scratch! You always seem to have too high expectations for things... you think Scratch should be full of brilliant 16 year olds. What's so bad about having younger people and people who aren't good at programming?

All that into one post. tongue If you're quoting a particular section, please don't quote the whole thing. Just quote the part you want to mention.

Chrischb · 2009-12-02 23:25:20

Lucario621 wrote:
RHY3756547 wrote:
I'm a very rowdy dumb programmer! XD
Tell me about it (jk)

I think the problem is that the scratch people advertised it to too many young kids, and not enough 16 year olds.

Scratch is specifically for kids aged 9 to 14, or something like that. 16 year olds can use Scratch, of course, but it wasn't designed for them.

Scratch

archived forums

#1 2009-12-02 00:18:37

Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

ScratchX wrote:

jacool wrote:

#2 2009-12-02 01:02:00

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#3 2009-12-02 01:53:46

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#4 2009-12-02 01:58:43

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#5 2009-12-02 02:02:39

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#6 2009-12-02 03:03:24

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#7 2009-12-02 03:05:59

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#8 2009-12-02 04:45:43

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#9 2009-12-02 05:06:22

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

juststickman wrote:

#10 2009-12-02 06:32:09

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#11 2009-12-02 08:27:58

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#12 2009-12-02 09:44:53

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#13 2009-12-02 10:14:38

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#14 2009-12-02 11:13:45

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#15 2009-12-02 11:44:20

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#16 2009-12-02 11:52:50

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#17 2009-12-02 12:07:14

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#18 2009-12-02 12:08:34

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

archmage wrote:

#19 2009-12-02 14:56:20

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#20 2009-12-02 15:41:48

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#21 2009-12-02 15:57:21

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

RHY3756547 wrote:

#22 2009-12-02 16:04:22

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

#23 2009-12-02 16:05:05

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

Lucario621 wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

#24 2009-12-02 23:22:47

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

TheSaint wrote:

TheSaint wrote:

08jackt wrote:

steppenwulf wrote:

torterra wrote:

RHY3756457 wrote:

throughthefire wrote:

Targethero wrote:

archmage wrote:

jacool wrote:

archmage wrote:

throughthefire wrote:

RHY3756457 wrote:

Lucario621 wrote:

#25 2009-12-02 23:25:20

Re: Stop blaming '09ers and making yourself look good! Explained here.

Lucario621 wrote:

RHY3756547 wrote:

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