Scratch

Hi, all.

I'd like to add to Andres's comments about the comment block...

A few problems emerged during beta test. Several users thought it looked like it should do something (since it looks like a block) and partily, as we used it to comment our own projects, it felt heavy and bulky to us. But that first attempt suggested other commenting mechanisms (perhaps more like "postit" notes than blocks) that we think will be better in the long run.

The main reason to omit the comment block from this release was that we did not want to ultimately have two incompatible commenting mechanisms.

We haven't given up on comment blocks; quite the contrary! We will do our best to create a better commenting mechanism for the next release.

Meanwhile, we've made the notes pane scrollable so, as an interim solution, you could put comments about your code there. (I know--its not as useful as being able to put comments right in the code--but it's a good place to record your comments until the new commenting mechanism comes along.)

Over the nearly five year history of the Scratch project, we have tried and discarded many ideas that did not work as well as we'd hoped. One of the reasons Scratch is fun and easy to learn is that we have been ruthless about removing--or improving--features that do not carry their weight.

So, apologies to those who where looking forward to the new comment block. Please be patient a little longer.

  -- John

Last edited by johnm (2007-12-02 22:34:29)

U no, I thought comments were for explaining what the block does for scratchers who have downloaded the project!! 

Last edited by Gigabyte123 (2007-12-03 02:42:12)

Let me put my voice behind Kevin's as to the importance of comments.  In order to share code effectively (a prime feature of the Scratch environment) you need to understand what the originating programmer was thinking and how their code is meant to be used.  I have looked at a lot of projects since I started using Scratch (way too much free time I guess) and a lot of it is very unclear.  Comments in the scripting area would be invaluable.  I would also like to see a way to comment variables and messages when they are declared.  These features are often used for program control and it would be nice to know what the programmer was thinking when creating them; it is not always obvious. 

As to how comments are implemented, I see nothing wrong with having more than one mechanisim.  Many languages have one format for major comment blocks (such as the top of procedures) and another format for quick inline comments such as explaining control structure branches.  I see value to both forms.  I would like to see something similar to the Comment Block for long explanations (summary of the entire block for instance).  I would also like to see an expanding text insertion point at the right side of every branch of every control structure and maybe the variable assignment blocks as well.  This would allow short in-line commenting in the areas where it tends to get ugly.  As for the variables and messages, I haven't given that a lot of thought but it would be nice to comment them as well. 

In summary, I feel very strongly about code documentation and hope that the Scratch team will place it high on the list of priorities to help our begining programmers develop good habits.

A final thought:  I can't tell you how many projects I've looked at that don't even tell the user what keys they are supposed to use to run the thing.  Or that get loaded to the web with no Project Notes at all.  It might be good to require that SOMETHING be put in the Project Notes before allowing it to be shared.  Even better would be a hint to the young (or old) programmer that they might want tell the public what keys to push to run their new pride-and-joy creation.  Thanks for listening, keep up the good work!

Last edited by Paddle2See (2009-12-20 21:25:15)

I encourage kids to make their instructions part of the animation, not in the notes, since the notes are not really visible when running the downloaded program.  Making an extra background or sprite for instructions is pretty easy (about as easy as putting the instructions in the notes).

Comments on variables and broadcast messages would be nice, but would be hard to get people to actually do.  I have enough trouble getting college students who are graded on their work to put meaningful comments on their variables.

I don't think we need comments on every block---that would be painful overkill if they were actually used.  What we need are block comments that can be used at the beginning of a script or as the first block in a loop or conditional---pretty much what Scratch 1.2beta had.
These comments serve as the topic sentences for a paragraph of code, saying what the paragraph is supposed to do, with the code itself filling in the little details.

EdnaC wrote:

Comments that could be attached to blocks in the way that MS Excel allows comments for cells would be very nice.  For those not familiar, Excel lets the user add a comment to a cell, which then shows a little mark in the corner; "Hovering" on the cell makes a little window (like a "tool tip') show up.

This is what I had in mind when I was talking about comments on every block...not that it is likely that people would ever a actually comment every block but that they would have the capability to comment any particular block.

As for comments on variables, maybe it's not as big a deal in Scratch where variables aren't used as much as other languages but I still think the ability to comment variables would be nice to have.  I would use it.  Comments on Messages probably are not as necessary since they don't tend to be as numerous and they can only be used in one specific way (triggering a stack), unlike variables which can take on a number of roles.

kevin_karplus wrote:

Gigabyte123, you are right on what comments are for. 

I respect the Scratch team highly, and believe that they will eventually come up with a decent commenting mechanism.  Personally, I would have preferred the somewhat clunky comment boxes to no comments at all.  for that matter, I would have been glad to wait another month for version 1.2 if it would have given them enough time to do comments right.  It was, and remains, the most glaring hole in the scratch environment.

You can still use it if you want. Just download this project.
http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Mick/62415
If anyone else wants to still use the comment block, download this project.
If the Scratch Team don't want the comment block to be used, I'll delete the project. 
If you're wondering how I got it, I collect Scratch IMAGE files. I have all the Scratch versions except '1.0.2' & '1.0 (beta)'. 

Last edited by Mick (2007-12-04 13:34:02)

I have used the trick that "ihaveamac" suggests in the past, but it is really quite limited, as the comment lines are then limited to one line.  The most important comments are block comments, which take more than one line.

Mick wrote:

kevin_karplus wrote:

Gigabyte123, you are right on what comments are for. 

I respect the Scratch team highly, and believe that they will eventually come up with a decent commenting mechanism.  Personally, I would have preferred the somewhat clunky comment boxes to no comments at all.  for that matter, I would have been glad to wait another month for version 1.2 if it would have given them enough time to do comments right.  It was, and remains, the most glaring hole in the scratch environment.

You can still use it if you want. Just download this project.
http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Mick/62415
If anyone else wants to still use the comment block, download this project.
If the Scratch Team don't want the comment block to be used, I'll delete the project. 
If you're wondering how I got it, I collect Scratch IMAGE files. I have all the Scratch versions except '1.0.2' & '1.0 (beta)'. 

We can still use the comment block!?  Cool!

I should stop posting on this topic.

ihaveamac wrote:

Mick wrote:

kevin_karplus wrote:

Gigabyte123, you are right on what comments are for. 

I respect the Scratch team highly, and believe that they will eventually come up with a decent commenting mechanism.  Personally, I would have preferred the somewhat clunky comment boxes to no comments at all.  for that matter, I would have been glad to wait another month for version 1.2 if it would have given them enough time to do comments right.  It was, and remains, the most glaring hole in the scratch environment.

You can still use it if you want. Just download this project.
http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Mick/62415
If anyone else wants to still use the comment block, download this project.
If the Scratch Team don't want the comment block to be used, I'll delete the project. 
If you're wondering how I got it, I collect Scratch IMAGE files. I have all the Scratch versions except '1.0.2' & '1.0 (beta)'. 

We can still use the comment block!?  Cool!

I should stop posting on this topic.

Lol. I dont even get what the comment block do, so, I saw its useless.

comments are required for larger projects, scratch, not so much due to the slight learning curve but still...

I'd like to show you an image of how the comment / note block can look like. I really like comments, an i really need them too... So that's the reason why I want to show my way of commenting, who knows, maybe it is usefull...



It is a transparent block, that you can attach at a few other blocks. I would suggest that you can select multiple blocks, right mouse click, and then select "Add note...".

I hope it's usefull!

Joren

PS: for those who are thinking that they need fotoshop, the image above is done with MS paint and the scratch ghost effect only...

Last edited by JSO (2007-12-18 12:50:20)

Another way to comment clearly without an actual block is to include these blocks where the comment should go:

say(see #1) for (0) secs

Then write a note #1 in your project notes.  Then anyone who downloads the project will know to look at #1 when they see that script.  The key is that you write "0 secs"  then the note will not actualy be shown on the website.